Author Topic: Australian Politics thread [merged]  (Read 991394 times)

Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5415 on: August 17, 2020, 02:05:17 PM »
Private operators have done the wrong thing. Individual operators select and recruit cheap staff. They do it to maximise profit. Poorly trained staff cant be blamed on the government. Its 100% the fault of the operators looking to profit.


It can and should be blamed on the Federal government. They set the regulations that govern staffing ratios, training requirements etc. Individual operators are working within existing laws set down by the Federal Government. Can you not see this or are you just in denial re Scotty from Marketing's complicity in this disaster?

What about poorly trained security guards handling a hotel quarantine? Can we blame the government?

Or do we blame the private operator who was contracted to do a better job?


It all depends on the set of regulations hotel quarantine operators were supposed to follow. If the regulations are there it is the private operators fault. If the regulations are not there or not rigorous enough it is the Government's fault.


In the case of the Nursing homes the guidelines are faulty and hence the government's fault.
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5416 on: August 17, 2020, 10:17:08 PM »
well 4 corners, statements from disease experts, herald sun, age, guardian rag all point toward one thing, and it aint an opinion from anyone on here.
Dan has blood on his hands and everyone knows it.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/covid19-hotel-quarantine-caused-99-per-cent-of-victorian-cases/news-story/4fc37e14177934b1161e8a59884b143b

COVID-19: Hotel quarantine caused 99 per cent of Victorian cases

More than 99 per cent of COVID-19 cases genomically tested in Victoria can be traced to overseas travellers, during the period they were forced into hotel quarantine.

More than 99 per cent of COVID-19 cases genomically tested in Victoria can be traced to overseas travellers, during the period they were forced into hotel quarantine

Doherty Institute director Professor Ben Howden tabled evidence to the hotel quarantine inquiry on Monday showing three main transmission sources for current coronavirus infections started in late May or early June, after Victoria’s first wave of infections virtually died out.

The three sources started with infected returning travellers. International arrivals went into quarantine hotels from March 29 until the fatally flawed program was suspended in July, amid Victoria’s second wave.

Prof Howden said he could not provide a proportion of cases linked to the quarantine program because he did not have all appropriate data.

But he said almost all current Victorian cases could be linked to three sources known as networks two and three, and cluster 45A. “All current cases, bar a few, are from those transmission networks and that cluster,” he told the inquiry, headed by former judge Jennifer Coate.

The inquiry also heard private security guarding the hotels were told they did not have to wear personal protective equipment, such as masks, in hotel foyers and corridors.

The inquiry was also told the Andrews government had the power to direct people in quarantine to be tested for COVID-19 or be detained for up to three days — but it did not make testing mandatory.

In June, 30 per cent of travellers left quarantine without being tested.

In a statement submitted to the inquiry, Prof Howden said he could not answer questions on how many cases could be directly linked to the failed quarantine program, or to security who guarded the hotels, because he did not hold the appropriate epidemiological data that tracked the spread of the virus.

But he said: “Over 99 per cent of all current cases in Victoria for which we have genomic sequencing data are derived from transmission network two predominantly, as well as transmission network three and cluster 45A.”

The Stamford Plaza on Collins Street. In June, 30 per cent of travellers left quarantine without being tested.
A government epidemiologist is due to give evidence on Tuesday and may provide further evidence on how devastating the virus leak from the quarantine hotels has been.

Prof Howden said 46 per cent of cases in Victoria had been subject to genomic testing, which tracks their precise strain and shows mutations as the virus is passed along.

The Doherty Institute had been testing 80 per cent of cases but had not been able to keep up once Victoria’s deadly second wave, which peaked at more than 700 cases a day, took hold.

In remarkable evidence, the inquiry was shown a document provided to private security guarding the quarantine hotels that said guards were not required to wear personal protective equipment, such as masks, when they were in hotel foyers and corridors, provided they could remain 1.5m from guests.

The document was introduced by Arthur Moses, the lawyer representing Unified Security, one of the firms hired to enforce the quarantine ­restrictions.

Infectious disease specialist Professor Lindsay Grayson told the inquiry that the advice in the document was ­“inappropriate”.

He said properly worn PPE should have been used, helping protect the wearer in the event of an unplanned interaction with a potentially infectious guest.

Prof Grayson said an online course that security guards undertook was “confused about its target audience’’ and was inadequate for people who would be dealing with potentially infectious people.

Mr Moses told the inquiry there had been “quite a lot of rumour and innuendo” about “alleged inappropriate contact … sexual activity” between some security guards and guests.

He put to Prof Grayson there were many ways security staff could contract the virus from guests through “required interactions” such as delivering food. Prof Grayson agreed, particularly if the guards were not wearing PPE.

The hearing continues ­online at 10am Tuesday.
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Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5417 on: August 17, 2020, 10:45:51 PM »



Not quite sure why Dan Andrews has blood on his hands and not Scott Morrison?



Yeah we're already going to vote for him mate, you don't need to keep selling it.....

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5418 on: August 17, 2020, 11:50:43 PM »
Scomo has had an exceptional covid. Australias version of that NZ Bird.  :lol

4 Corners. You know your in deep poo when the abc arent even looking after you.




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Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5419 on: August 18, 2020, 08:00:45 AM »
Scomo has had an exceptional covid. Australias version of that NZ Bird. 

FJ, I can't work out whether you believe this or you're just trying for a reaction.

If it's the latter that's ok because this is an internet forum after all. If it's the former then I really do feel sorry for you.

Cheers
65
Yeah we're already going to vote for him mate, you don't need to keep selling it.....

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5420 on: August 18, 2020, 08:55:28 AM »
Scomo has had an exceptional covid. Australias version of that NZ Bird. 

FJ, I can't work out whether you believe this or you're just trying for a reaction.

If it's the latter that's ok because this is an internet forum after all. If it's the former then I really do feel sorry for you.

Cheers
65

Thank you 65, means a lot to have your support.

Its hard for you to accept i know, but i finally think we are dancing.
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5421 on: August 18, 2020, 09:38:23 AM »
My dads in aged care not one case throughhout the
period of covid. Its about the management and staff. If they followed the rules they wouldnt have issues but unfortunately some put profit before the elderly. They should be taken over by the commonwealth. Any operator who has done the wrong thing should be shut down.

As you know I no longer post in this thread and offer any form of opinion but I still read it

But forgive me Ramps, you've confused me

You said Aged Care Centres should be taken over by the Commonwealth

Aged Care in this country is already the responsibility of the Commonwealth (Fed Govt). Aged Care was privatised by the Howard govt. But the overall responsibility to ensure they are managed and run correctly falls with the Commonwealth

Issues in the Aged Care sector have been there for a considerable amount of time. Hence, why there is currently a Royal Commission into Aged Care going on now. COVID19, has only highlighted further shortcomings in that system and that is why it is the focus of the RC now.

Victoria is the only State that retained and continues to manage a number (small) of Aged Care facilities. But the majority are privately owned and run.

So I'm just trying understand what you mean by the Commonwealth should take them over?

i think you will find that is incorrect WP.

queensland as an example still has state run facilities (small number)  but the majority are privately run. I will assume other states are the same, albeit a smaller number.

i stand to be corrected but i read recently nearly half of the countrys centres are run privately, so state has control in many others.

so.... if that is the case and other states also have private run facilities, then tell me why arent all the other states copping a second wave as Victoria is, and especially if all cases came from one bungled scheme. I think we all know the answer.

The Royal commission is long overdue, and from what i have read state run centres are also guilty of some disgusting behaviour. That said there are many that operate very professionally and without issues.

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Offline Andyy

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5422 on: August 18, 2020, 10:23:42 AM »
i think you will find that is incorrect WP.

queensland as an example still has state run facilities (small number)  but the majority are privately run. I will assume other states are the same, albeit a smaller number.

i stand to be corrected but i read recently nearly half of the countrys centres are run privately, so state has control in many others.

so.... if that is the case and other states also have private run facilities, then tell me why arent all the other states copping a second wave as Victoria is, and especially if all cases came from one bungled scheme. I think we all know the answer.

The Royal commission is long overdue, and from what i have read state run centres are also guilty of some disgusting behaviour. That said there are many that operate very professionally and without issues.




This is true.

I was part of the working group that produced the evidence submission for a public health provider's residential aged care facilities (a big one).

Huge issues with behaviour and aggression management. Terrible issues with staffing and resources. Some of the incidents I assessed included residents killing one another or themselves. I was expecting a massive fallout even prior to C19.

I think what we'll find is that there are several reasons why the private ones have suffered so much more. Yes they likely have less registered nurses, lower qualifications in other staff, less resources etc all in the name of turning a profit. But there are other factors too > I suspect we will need a separate inquiry into this.

I am very surprised the government ones have done so much better.

Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5423 on: August 19, 2020, 11:41:27 AM »

I think what we'll find is that there are several reasons why the private ones have suffered so much more. Yes they likely have less registered nurses, lower qualifications in other staff, less resources etc all in the name of turning a profit. But there are other factors too > I suspect we will need a separate inquiry into this.

I am very surprised the government ones have done so much better.


What do you think the "other factors" are?
Yeah we're already going to vote for him mate, you don't need to keep selling it.....

Offline Andyy

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5424 on: August 19, 2020, 01:37:58 PM »

I think what we'll find is that there are several reasons why the private ones have suffered so much more. Yes they likely have less registered nurses, lower qualifications in other staff, less resources etc all in the name of turning a profit. But there are other factors too > I suspect we will need a separate inquiry into this.

I am very surprised the government ones have done so much better.


What do you think the "other factors" are?

Bit hard to unpack, but I genuinely think there will be epidemiological factors more prevalent to the private sector than the public sector.

Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5425 on: August 24, 2020, 08:12:48 AM »



Victorian Libs misbehaving?


This from the right wing conservative rag, the Herald Sun. Love Scotty from Marketing's spin.


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/branchstacking-allegations-levelled-at-victorian-liberal-party/news-story/6e3313d2b44f66852fa802c08359114f


Former Victorian premier Ted Baillieu has hit out at the “staggering” behaviour of Liberal Party factional heavyweights amid claims of alleged branch-stacking and misuse of taxpayer-funded resources.



The ex-Liberal leader told 60 Minutes there were “a few people seeking to rig elections, internal elections, in the Liberal Party”.


“I can only presume that there are people who think that’s more important than the great challenges Victorians are facing, and that’s to their shame,” Mr Baillieu said.


Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s office said on Sunday night: “This is an organisational matter for the Victorian division of the party.”
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Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5426 on: August 25, 2020, 05:54:47 AM »

Sukkar, the Federal assistant treasurer, has to go. Surely?
 
https://www.theage.com.au/national/sukkar-uses-taxpayer-budget-to-employ-friend-who-also-designed-smear-sheets-20200824-p55osu.html


Assistant Treasurer Michael Sukkar used his taxpayer-funded electorate office budget to pay one of his best friends, who was also tasked with designing Mr Sukkar's political smear files and materials to solicit party donations, in potential breach of parliamentary rules.





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Offline Rampsation

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5427 on: August 25, 2020, 07:21:18 PM »
Agree Sukkar should resign. Not as bad as Somyulek but enough to lose his job

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5428 on: August 26, 2020, 04:52:53 PM »
 :clapping getting called out by some big players is head of Quarantine Dicator Dan.

McNamee 'stunned' by Andrews' power grab

The chairman of biotechnology company CSL, Brian McNamee, said it was "radically wrong" for Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews to extend emergency COVID-19 powers, saying his handling of the virus had not "earned or deserved" the right to crush people's civil liberties.

Melbourne-based Dr McNamee, whose company is developing a vaccine for COVID-19, encouraged other Victorians to speak up about the state government's authoritarian overreach and failure to give due weight to the economic and social damage inflicted by lockdowns.

Dr McNamee said the public must ensure their rights are never again "trampled" on by "fear stoking" governments. Scott Barbour, Nine.

Dr McNamee, a qualified medical doctor and also chairman of cancer care specialist GenesisCare, acknowledged COVID-19 was a "highly contagious disease" that was very bad for elderly people and that healthcare workers were at high risk of catching it.

"But it isn't sufficient rationale for shutting down society and doing what is now proposed by the Premier," Dr McNamee said in an interview with The Australian Financial Review on Wednesday.

"Many of us are stunned that our civil liberties and rights have been so severely taken away from us."

"Where are the checks and balances, the expert independent advice, the data, the scientific explanation including objectives and finally the pivotal role of parliament?"

Dr McNamee said other senior Victorians had similar concerns to him but they felt unable to comment as the reach of government makes many business leaders shy.

"I'm no radical but unfortunately I feel compelled to speak out because others feel they are unable, beyond contacting their local members, to express dismay."

"I encourage as many Victorians as possible to contact their representatives to do likewise."

In the middle of Melbourne's six-week lockdown, Mr Andrews wants to extend state of emergency powers beyond September 13, to retain the potential to impose measures such as mandatory face masks, social distancing and future lockdowns.

The state government said the move was consistent with other states, but he may be forced to negotiate a compromise of less than 12 months with upper house crossbench politicians.

Hotel quarantine breaches and substandard contact tracing by Victorian health authorities have enabled the virus to spread much more than in other states.

Dr McNamee said the public must ensure their rights are never again "trampled" on by "fear-stoking" governments, even as he admitted the virus was serious for vulnerable people.

"It's really a call to all of us to stand up and say 'this should not continue, nor is it appropriate'," he said.

"Clearly this requires a substantial yet tailored response.

"Nevertheless, the harm to our youth and the broader society is not acknowledged nor would appear to be factored in sufficiently."

CSL, Australia's third most valuable company, is partnering with the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations and the University of Queensland to develop a COVID-19 vaccine.

The University of Queensland this week presented its promising early data and declared so far there had been "absolutely no safety concerns" among the 120 human volunteers who have had the first dose in the phase one clinical trial.

CSL has been chosen as a large scale manufacturer of the vaccine should it prove successful.

CSL is also aiming to develop a potential plasma-derived therapy for treating COVID-19.

Last month, Dr McNamee warned that Melbourne's lockdown will have "devastating" economic, social and health costs and called for governments to put forward a credible virus strategy that is "not seen as blunt or punitive to the wider society".

Dr McNamee as chief executive took the government-owned Commonwealth Serum Laboratories in the 90s and transformed it into an international biotech powerhouse, before transitioning to non-executive chairman in October 2018.

https://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/mcnamee-stunned-by-andrews-power-grab-20200826-p55pij?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nc&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0ATM4Xb6p0GbZ4RmRh59NPWCmXNCHst2o4vC4X0HapIR-T6EOBe8x2xJ8#Echobox=1598423044
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Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5429 on: August 27, 2020, 04:50:08 PM »
Victorian Liberal party is in chaos. Dan Andrews is going nowhere.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-27/victorian-liberal-party-in-turmoil-after-branch-stacking-scandal/12598164?section=analysis



The Victorian Liberal Party is in a bit of a mess. And it has been for some time.


It is riven by factional infighting and its electoral performance in state politics is akin to a bottom-four footy side.


But unlike teams propping up the ladder, there appears to be little appetite for a rebuild on Spring Street.

Yeah we're already going to vote for him mate, you don't need to keep selling it.....