Deledio vs Roughead - who have performed better over their careers so far?

[Tigeritis™©®]

Facts are that hawthorn only picked roughead first because they knew we wanted him with our next pick. The stupid brainstrust at Richmond didn't think Franklin was worth our 4th pick so we were always going to pick roughead.
Hawthorn knew this and snapped him up so they could secure the 2 best talls in the draft they new Franklin was a superstar and roughead was the next best tall. They also knew that we were picking lids first and the bulldogs were picking that other guy.  

The question should really be Deledio v Franklin.

I am so sick of this bullcrap story being told. It DID NOT happen like this at all.
Even Gary Buckenara (their recruitment manager at the time) in a video interview after the draft admitted as such.

I heard it live on a radio interview with a hawthorn person after in 2008. I can't remember the guy probably buckenara but he desciribed it pretty much how I wrote it. He said he walked into Ian dickers office and explained to him how they were going to secure the best 2 talls in the draft which is exactly what the coach wanted.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/pick-me-ups-across-board/story-0-1111117576972

[Tigeritis™©®]

Facts are that hawthorn only picked roughead first because they knew we wanted him with our next pick. The stupid brainstrust at Richmond didn't think Franklin was worth our 4th pick so we were always going to pick roughead.
Hawthorn knew this and snapped him up so they could secure the 2 best talls in the draft they new Franklin was a superstar and roughead was the next best tall. They also knew that we were picking lids first and the bulldogs were picking that other guy. 

The question should really be Deledio v Franklin.

The thing your story forgets is the Hawks expected us to pick Franklin and when we took Tambling it caused them a stir and it took them quite a while and a fair amount of talking before they called Franklin's name. It would seem they rated Roughead over Franklin and they were fortunate we picked Tambling. Only in hindsight though.

sorry but your wrong.

[Infamy]

Facts are that hawthorn only picked roughead first because they knew we wanted him with our next pick. The stupid brainstrust at Richmond didn't think Franklin was worth our 4th pick so we were always going to pick roughead.
Hawthorn knew this and snapped him up so they could secure the 2 best talls in the draft they new Franklin was a superstar and roughead was the next best tall. They also knew that we were picking lids first and the bulldogs were picking that other guy.  

The question should really be Deledio v Franklin.

I am so sick of this bullcrap story being told. It DID NOT happen like this at all.
Even Gary Buckenara (their recruitment manager at the time) in a video interview after the draft admitted as such.

I heard it live on a radio interview with a hawthorn person after in 2008. I can't remember the guy probably buckenara but he desciribed it pretty much how I wrote it. He said he walked into Ian dickers office and explained to him how they were going to secure the best 2 talls in the draft which is exactly what the coach wanted.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/pick-me-ups-across-board/story-0-1111117576972

Yeah well I watched the video interview with Buckenara right after the draft and he said the complete opposite, the evidence during draft day supports the original story as they didn't call Franklin's name out straight away and almost read out the wrong player. If you think I'm making things up go and look up the draft day threads from 2004 on sites like PRE. Hawks were rattled at Pick 5, they stumbled their words and then right afterwards Buckenara admitted that they thought that Richmond would go for one tall and one small so rather than taken the 2nd best of each type they wanted to let Richmond take their first pick then they would take the best of the type left over, they determined that to be Roughead.

At the end of the day, if they thought Franklin was going to be a certain superstar (which predraft many people knew he was capable of becoming) then there is no chance in hell they would have risked letting him slip through to Pick 5. Especially with the talk that Richmond were wanting Roughead with their next pick and as such would want one tall and one small.

You are going to have to forgive me if I don't put any value towards a radio interview with someone you can't even remember who it was 4 years after it happened. I know Hawthorn have said this since, but it doesn't change the truth of what happened at the time. My recollection of the story was that it was Clarkson who said he wanted to try and get two talls. (Which I believe is why they originally traded up to Pick 7 to complete). Then when it came to Pick 7, as the Hawks already had their two talls, they took Lewis who having been overlooked the previous year was expected to go at the end of the first round, start of the 2nd round, so having missed out on a mid with one of their first 5 picks, reached for the next mid they wanted. It all worked out for them, but there was a massive luck component in it, certainly wasn't their strategy walking into the draft in 2004.

[Infamy]

Facts are that hawthorn only picked roughead first because they knew we wanted him with our next pick. The stupid brainstrust at Richmond didn't think Franklin was worth our 4th pick so we were always going to pick roughead.
Hawthorn knew this and snapped him up so they could secure the 2 best talls in the draft they new Franklin was a superstar and roughead was the next best tall. They also knew that we were picking lids first and the bulldogs were picking that other guy. 

The question should really be Deledio v Franklin.

The thing your story forgets is the Hawks expected us to pick Franklin and when we took Tambling it caused them a stir and it took them quite a while and a fair amount of talking before they called Franklin's name. It would seem they rated Roughead over Franklin and they were fortunate we picked Tambling. Only in hindsight though.

sorry but your wrong.

You're going to need to provide more than you have to prove yourself right.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Facts are that hawthorn only picked roughead first because they knew we wanted him with our next pick. The stupid brainstrust at Richmond didn't think Franklin was worth our 4th pick so we were always going to pick roughead.
Hawthorn knew this and snapped him up so they could secure the 2 best talls in the draft they new Franklin was a superstar and roughead was the next best tall. They also knew that we were picking lids first and the bulldogs were picking that other guy. 

The question should really be Deledio v Franklin.

The thing your story forgets is the Hawks expected us to pick Franklin and when we took Tambling it caused them a stir and it took them quite a while and a fair amount of talking before they called Franklin's name. It would seem they rated Roughead over Franklin and they were fortunate we picked Tambling. Only in hindsight though.

sorry but your wrong.

You're going to need to provide more than you have to prove yourself right.

ok I agree my recollection of the radio interview isn't so good.

More proof you ask. Ok try this article.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/buddy-of-evidence/story-e6frf9lx-1111113513502

[Coach]

WGAF about this. 

Have a beer boys 

[Infamy]

Facts are that hawthorn only picked roughead first because they knew we wanted him with our next pick. The stupid brainstrust at Richmond didn't think Franklin was worth our 4th pick so we were always going to pick roughead.
Hawthorn knew this and snapped him up so they could secure the 2 best talls in the draft they new Franklin was a superstar and roughead was the next best tall. They also knew that we were picking lids first and the bulldogs were picking that other guy. 

The question should really be Deledio v Franklin.

The thing your story forgets is the Hawks expected us to pick Franklin and when we took Tambling it caused them a stir and it took them quite a while and a fair amount of talking before they called Franklin's name. It would seem they rated Roughead over Franklin and they were fortunate we picked Tambling. Only in hindsight though.

sorry but your wrong.

You're going to need to provide more than you have to prove yourself right.

ok I agree my recollection of the radio interview isn't so good.

More proof you ask. Ok try this article.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/buddy-of-evidence/story-e6frf9lx-1111113513502

I see this article mentions that they went looking for a spine, this doesn't contradict what I said earlier about them upgrading to Pick 7 to help them do this
Either way, they did not rate Buddy as the star you say they did back then and that article highlights the exact reasons why he slipped to Pick 5

I am telling you what happened on draft day, with enough detail that you really need to just give this argument up. I don't give a flying F#<& what Hawthorn have said 4+ years on about what happened that day, it is clear as day that they would not have risked Buddy slipping to Pick 5 if they genuinely knew he was the player he has become. Everyone knew he COULD become that player, but the issues, highlighted in your own reference, put doubt into all the clubs' minds.

[Oiafi]

It will be interesting to see in 3 or 4 years whether Darling is seen in a similar light. A kid with problems but huge potential who went much later than originally expected. Seems to be doing OK so far.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Facts are that hawthorn only picked roughead first because they knew we wanted him with our next pick. The stupid brainstrust at Richmond didn't think Franklin was worth our 4th pick so we were always going to pick roughead.
Hawthorn knew this and snapped him up so they could secure the 2 best talls in the draft they new Franklin was a superstar and roughead was the next best tall. They also knew that we were picking lids first and the bulldogs were picking that other guy. 

The question should really be Deledio v Franklin.

The thing your story forgets is the Hawks expected us to pick Franklin and when we took Tambling it caused them a stir and it took them quite a while and a fair amount of talking before they called Franklin's name. It would seem they rated Roughead over Franklin and they were fortunate we picked Tambling. Only in hindsight though.

sorry but your wrong.

You're going to need to provide more than you have to prove yourself right.

ok I agree my recollection of the radio interview isn't so good.

More proof you ask. Ok try this article.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/buddy-of-evidence/story-e6frf9lx-1111113513502

I see this article mentions that they went looking for a spine, this doesn't contradict what I said earlier about them upgrading to Pick 7 to help them do this
Either way, they did not rate Buddy as the star you say they did back then and that article highlights the exact reasons why he slipped to Pick 5

I am telling you what happened on draft day, with enough detail that you really need to just give this argument up. I don't give a flying F#<& what Hawthorn have said 4+ years on about what happened that day, it is clear as day that they would not have risked Buddy slipping to Pick 5 if they genuinely knew he was the player he has become. Everyone knew he COULD become that player, but the issues, highlighted in your own reference, put doubt into all the clubs' minds.

Imfamy why can't you admit you got it wrong. I gave you the proof you asked for. I don't care what they said draft day. Fact is they wanted talls and had a strategy to get them and they succeeded in doing this.
So c'mon Fonzie admit it........ "I was wwwwwwwwwrrrrr.......

[Francois Jackson]

Facts are that hawthorn only picked roughead first because they knew we wanted him with our next pick. The stupid brainstrust at Richmond didn't think Franklin was worth our 4th pick so we were always going to pick roughead.
Hawthorn knew this and snapped him up so they could secure the 2 best talls in the draft they new Franklin was a superstar and roughead was the next best tall. They also knew that we were picking lids first and the bulldogs were picking that other guy. 

The question should really be Deledio v Franklin.

The thing your story forgets is the Hawks expected us to pick Franklin and when we took Tambling it caused them a stir and it took them quite a while and a fair amount of talking before they called Franklin's name. It would seem they rated Roughead over Franklin and they were fortunate we picked Tambling. Only in hindsight though.

sorry but your wrong.

You're going to need to provide more than you have to prove yourself right.

ok I agree my recollection of the radio interview isn't so good.

More proof you ask. Ok try this article.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/buddy-of-evidence/story-e6frf9lx-1111113513502

I see this article mentions that they went looking for a spine, this doesn't contradict what I said earlier about them upgrading to Pick 7 to help them do this
Either way, they did not rate Buddy as the star you say they did back then and that article highlights the exact reasons why he slipped to Pick 5

I am telling you what happened on draft day, with enough detail that you really need to just give this argument up. I don't give a flying F#<& what Hawthorn have said 4+ years on about what happened that day, it is clear as day that they would not have risked Buddy slipping to Pick 5 if they genuinely knew he was the player he has become. Everyone knew he COULD become that player, but the issues, highlighted in your own reference, put doubt into all the clubs' minds.

Imfamy why can't you admit you got it wrong. I gave you the proof you asked for. I don't care what they said draft day. Fact is they wanted talls and had a strategy to get them and they succeeded in doing this.
So c'mon Fonzie admit it........ "I was wwwwwwwwwrrrrr.......

hahahahaahahaha he never does pal

Infamy is Fonzi more like Ponzi i think.

[Infamy]

Probably because I never am wrong

Telling the story differently 4 (now 7) years on does not change the truth of what happened on the day
You're the one that said that Hawthorn knew that Franklin would be a superstar when the link you provided explains exactly why he slipped

As for calling the brainstrust stupid, well in 2004 the only recruiter we had was Greg Beck who had been sacked so there wasn't exactly ANY brainstrust to blame. Still don't know why the Bulldogs don't cop more flack for passing on Buddy, they probably would have two premierships by now if they'd taken him.

I reckon you just like sticking the boot into the club.

[the claw]

Probably because I never am wrong

Telling the story differently 4 (now 7) years on does not change the truth of what happened on the day
You're the one that said that Hawthorn knew that Franklin would be a superstar when the link you provided explains exactly why he slipped

As for calling the brainstrust stupid, well in 2004 the only recruiter we had was Greg Beck who had been sacked so there wasn't exactly ANY brainstrust to blame. Still don't know why the Bulldogs don't cop more flack for passing on Buddy, they probably would have two premierships by now if they'd taken him.

I reckon you just like sticking the boot into the club.

was beck still there in 04 im not sure he was. without a doubt the man responsible for recruiting at that time was miller.

anyway i dont know if hawthorn out witted us or we shot ourselves in the foot hawthorn goal was to build a spine and they went a long way to achieving that. they also traded into pick 7 to ensure a shot at lewis so i would say they achieved all of their goals early in the 04 draft.
i think it would have been logical for our club to take one mid and one tall with picks 1 and 4.it didnt happen for what ever reason.

so the question deledio v roughead.
do we judge on games played well that a tough one. BD 138  JR 135.
Ones a tall and as such should take longer to develop yet hes played most games from the get go.
ones a mid/flanker ones a kpf totally different types and totally different roles. JR has had some lean periods but he is that big strong player that they can go thru that brereton talks about.i think both have been good for their clubs and i think roughhead would be an assett at richmond just like deledio would be an assett at hawthorn.  if we are to compare like for like top picks from the one draft surely it should be deledio v griffen.

finally just on that pick in 04 #6 tom williams. i still like the look of this bloke. ironic isnt it hes managed just 60 odd games due to constant injury problems. brereton said hawthorn thought wb would take williams where they did but said he was tough one to judge because he was always injured seems the injurys keep on dogging  the bloke.

[Smokey]

was beck still there in 04 im not sure he was. without a doubt the man responsible for recruiting at that time was miller.

Looks like he was but as you say, who was responsible for the final decisions is open to conjecture:

The Craziness Of The 2004 AFL Draft - Richmond
1 Brett Deledio

4 Richard Tambling

12 Danny Meyer

16 Adam Pattison

20 Dean Polo

36 Luke McGuane

52 Dean Limbach

65 Mark Graham

72 Pass

From The Age: Who your team picked
THE CLUB SAYS "We went in aiming to get a variety of players - some midfielders, some talls and a couple of utilities - and we think we've come out with a decent mix. We were more than happy to take Tambling on board after Hawthorn took (Jarryd) Roughead, because we rate him very highly; we rated all of the top four. We've got a couple of guys who can be thrown around anywhere. It's going to be the department of youth at Richmond next year with the boys we took last year, so Graham appealed as a senior body, not only to stand up in games but to teach these kids as well." - Greg Beck, Richmond recruiting manager


http://www.aflinsider.net/the-craziness-of-the-2004-afl-draft-richmond/

[Ox]

Delidio.
Roughhead is poohouse.

[the claw]

was beck still there in 04 im not sure he was. without a doubt the man responsible for recruiting at that time was miller.

Looks like he was but as you say, who was responsible for the final decisions is open to conjecture:

The Craziness Of The 2004 AFL Draft - Richmond
1 Brett Deledio

4 Richard Tambling

12 Danny Meyer

16 Adam Pattison

20 Dean Polo

36 Luke McGuane

52 Dean Limbach

65 Mark Graham

72 Pass

From The Age: Who your team picked
THE CLUB SAYS "We went in aiming to get a variety of players - some midfielders, some talls and a couple of utilities - and we think we've come out with a decent mix. We were more than happy to take Tambling on board after Hawthorn took (Jarryd) Roughead, because we rate him very highly; we rated all of the top four. We've got a couple of guys who can be thrown around anywhere. It's going to be the department of youth at Richmond next year with the boys we took last year, so Graham appealed as a senior body, not only to stand up in games but to teach these kids as well." - Greg Beck, Richmond recruiting manager


http://www.aflinsider.net/the-craziness-of-the-2004-afl-draft-richmond/

cheers for that just couldnt recall when he got the arse.

the one that bemused me was mark graham at pick 64. supposedly to add some experience down back and teach the kids. what kids was he going to mentor.  we had few  young kpds and we had experienced tall defenders in a kellaway hall and gaspar anyway.  archibald was the only young tall defender we had on the list proper.  mcguane was drafted as a forward moore was looked upon very much as a flanker and we had just rookied a 76kg thursfield.