1 more list clean out

[TigerLand]

Can't find my list management thread from the past few years but I strongly believe we are 1 more list clean out before we start to have a genuine list that will be ready to go through its natural course towards finals and beyond. We can all whinge about today but fact is we have 1 more clean out to go.

Looking at our over all list there still is a lot of poo to be cleaned up. Players on the list that need to be moved on:

100% Gone:
Miller, Brad Must go, no questions asked
McGuane, Luke Pretty self explanatory
Graham, Angus or Browne, Andrew Can't have both these guys on the list IMO. Both are barely VFL standard and only 1 should be a back up for Maric, recruit a 18 yo ruckman as the 4th ruckman at club
Derickx, Tom 2 years in the AFL as a mature age recruit? 5th ruckman at the club, can't possibly get another year

Should go
Connors, Daniel Last chance this year, if it was round 23 now it's line ball. If he played every game and contributes he probably get another year, if he doesn't he's gawn.
Jackson, Daniel Just my opinion that he isn't AFL standard, may play the odd good game, but if Jackson is in our best 22 I can't see us winning finals football
White, Matt Next year at round 1 will be a 26yo, speedy 180cm fringe player with average skills. I like Matty White but needs to be moved on IMO.
Moore, Kelvin Inspirational stuff to come back but with 80 hip operations and with Rance, Griffiths, Grimes all now holding down KP back positions and Astbury and Post having experience in there. Is there a spot for Moore? Probably not, even if he gets back to his best he's no huge upgrade on Grimes, or Rance and Griffiths should be given as much exposure as possible.
Webberely, Jeremy Question has to be asked where he is at? Seems to be a decent VFL player that has had the odd AFL game and made a cameo here and there. Would prefer to blood a young kid or see if we unearth a gem in the rookie draft.
MacDonald, Dean Is he still playing? Doesn't seem to have huge wraps on him, a kid from Gippsland with personal issues, whilst I wish him well, someone else can take his spot.
Maric, Addam Maybe to early to tell but delisted at Melbourne doesn't give you a good pedigree. Decent gamble, hasn't paid off thus far. Don't see anything changing.

Time is running out
Post, Jayden I like Post, but as a KP player he isn't coming on fast and at a normal rate may not be good enough compared to his competition.
Nahas, Robin Just my opinion but other teams seem to find it easy to find small forwards in the modern game. Look at St.Kilda, Milera and Saad first year players are arguably already better than anything we have. Brisbane have unearthed Zorko and Hawks pulled out Savage and Puopolo a few years back, WCE with Josh Hill and Collingwood have stacks. IMO Shane Edwards will be our locked in small forward for the future, but he needs a mate. I dunno if Nahas is that guy.
King, Jake Same as above, King is in our best 22 no doubt but plays the odd stinker and will turn 29 in our next pre season with a niggiling knee injury. Will play next year but I hope that our list matures and we recruit well enough to congratulate King on a fine career and next season be his last.

4 Must delisted with 6 that are a maybe. I don't expect Jackson to be delisted unfortunately. I'd expect at least 3 of the maybe's to be delisted so 7 is a decent clean out. Which needs to happen if not more.

Don't do an Essendon and think a mediocre list can take you far, the list will eventually mature to make finals but I'm not interested in making up the numbers like an Essendon with the likes of Davey, Dyson, Riemers, etc.

Still need some depth in our squad and these guys are taking up room and doing nothing at VFL level.

[Dubstep Dookie]

Seems reasonable on the whole. Just hope we can get some more quality in, in their place.

Wonder what Carlton want for Warnock? 3rd rounder? might be good insurance and then we can gut both Browne and Guseless.

Derrickx Has improved as a tall defender. Might be given more time ahead of the other two.

[mightytiges]

Kingy, Nahas and Jacko are contracted until next year so we can only move any of them on by trading them.

The rest you've named Pope I don't have a problem with if they get cut. With a supposedly strong draft this year and free agency coming in, it's a good time as any to make another clean out. We need to add more class and improve our depth to make finals next year.

[Dubstep Dookie]

Latest thinking is the depth in the upcoming draft is good until about 20, then its a lottery. Not the super draft people have been banging on about for 12 months, but still better than most years.

[wayne]

Difference between us and Collingwood is that a guy like Jackson is in the side as a utility for us, for Collingwood they'd have a kid in the team developing instead.

It is a shame Helbig is injured, i'd love to have seen him getting 10-12 games this year and getting some good experience.

[the claw]

if a clean out is say 8 players  then we have two clean outs to go.
basically agree with the op give or take one or two.

for me the 9 most in the gun are.

 white, macdonald, webberley, mcguane, post, and graham from the list proper. if graham goes we could be in the market for another mature ruck type. rookies   heslin r, miller r, a maric r.

others that we definately need to upgrade on weather that is this yr or next. also some others who also have skated on thin ice and are probably in the gun.

jackson, derickx, nahas, moore, king, connors, houli and edwards. the last two are clearly safe for now but they are two i would be looking to do better than down the track.  edwards has saved his arse with a good block of games my question is will he maintain it  he hasnt in the past.
in fact they are all in this category because they are all probably safe for now though derickx must be under pressure to stay.

then we have two who must be in the gun due to age  maybe not next yr but the yr after. retirement looms for these two over the next one or three yrs.
tuck newman.

we also have the rest of the rookies and we all know the likely success rate with them.

yep imo we still have two clean outs to go.  will be happy if we cut 5 or 6 from list proper and take 3 or 4 rookies. 5 nd picks 1 psd  3 or 4 rookies.
 from that lot if we can find  5 decent players  i will be happy meaning we cut the average cull down a little in 2013 and maybe give a little extra time to a few.
4 nd picks on good kids one late nd pick on a mature type  psd pick on a mature type.

what does say being conservative 4 good to very good kids  do for us. plus one good mature type.  lets say we snag 2 mids a ruckman and a kpf with our 4 picks.  plus a mature kpd.


mids -  arnot assuming he makes it, conca, cotchin, deledio, ellis, foley, grigg, helbig assuming he makes it, martin, tuck, plus the two mids we take .  starting to look decent and just a little depth being built. no king nahas jackson houli types having to be rotated thru there and hpefully a little cover if injury hits this area.

ruckmen -  ivan, maybe browne,   maybe derickx, maybe vickery, the kid we take.  a lot of maybes.

tall forwards   - jack,  elton,  maybe astbury,  maybe griffiths,  maybe  vickery ruck/for,  maybe post, kid we take.  lot of maybes there  again

tall defenders - rance, grimes, maybe griffiths, maybe post, maybe astbury . mature player we take hopefully a type like merret. would make for 15 talls all up excluding rookies. lots  maybe  they will make it maybe they wont types.
but its  a better spread and gives us an opportunity to build depth in all areas.

[tony_montana]

Agree with the sentiment but won't happen, guys like jacko, Edwards, king etc are KEY PLAYERS as far as he MC are concerned, so we keep hearing Bout waiting for someone better to come along to replace a Jackson type but guarantee he would keep his spot and someone like Ellis, conca or batchelor would lose their spot. Iv kind of lost faith in the MC and dimma

[tigs2011]

Wouldn't bat an eye lid if Miller was Capuano'd. Played his role reasonably last year. This year he just eats space in front of Jack.

[Judge Roughneck]

There is 24 on the list id keep.

X -> miller jackson mcgaune graham heslin macdonald.
Gone like the twin towers.

The following 15 would want to.show a bit: moore king white nahas derickx houli webberly connors post amaric browne verrier piva turner darrou. Just hope some of them have trad value.

[Hard Roar Tiger]

Kingy, Nahas and Jacko are contracted until next year so we can only move any of them on by trading them.

The rest you've named Pope I don't have a problem with if they get cut. With a supposedly strong draft this year and free agency coming in, it's a good time as any to make another clean out. We need to add more class and improve our depth to make finals next year.

It isn't the end of the world if we finish 11th or12th with 10-11 wins this year.
It shows improvement but indicates there are still massive gaps to the list.
In the past, it almost appears a big jump up the ladder has been the catalyst for stability in the list and we have run scared from making the 8-10 changes necessary.
If we happened to sneak into the 8 we might fall for that trap again.

Our one X factor is Blair Hartley, I reckon he keeps us grounded as a club by being the objective analyst of the entire list.
Our win/loss ratio would not be a factor in his list evaluation.

We just need to pay attention to his recommendations at the end of the season.

[Eat_em_Alive]

Kingy, Nahas and Jacko are contracted until next year so we can only move any of them on by trading them.

The rest you've named Pope I don't have a problem with if they get cut. With a supposedly strong draft this year and free agency coming in, it's a good time as any to make another clean out. We need to add more class and improve our depth to make finals next year.

It isn't the end of the world if we finish 11th or12th with 10-11 wins this year.
It shows improvement but indicates there are still massive gaps to the list.
In the past, it almost appears a big jump up the ladder has been the catalyst for stability in the list and we have run scared from making the 8-10 changes necessary.
If we happened to sneak into the 8 we might fall for that trap again.

Our one X factor is Blair Hartley, I reckon he keeps us grounded as a club by being the objective analyst of the entire list.
Our win/loss ratio would not be a factor in his list evaluation.

We just need to pay attention to his recommendations at the end of the season.

Great call hrt

[Penelope]

Seems reasonable on the whole. Just hope we can get some more quality in, in their place.

Wonder what Carlton want for Warnock? 3rd rounder? might be good insurance and then we can gut both Browne and Guseless.

Derrickx Has improved as a tall defender. Might be given more time ahead of the other two.

yeah, i reckon if derrickx can finish off the year strongly he should be given another year.
as i've said before, when you miss a whole year of footy it can take up to 12 months to get back to the level you were at before the injury.

hopefully he can play some good footy for the remainder of the season

[eliminator]

Agree real shame Hellbig is injured. Would have been great to get more games into him

[Tigeritis™©®]

I like chris knights from Adelaide.

I know he's had some injury concers but hes a decent forward/mid that's got good size. Makes our smalls look like little auskickers in comparison. 

He's  Melbourne boy too with limited opportunity this year. May want to come home.

I like him.

[Penelope]

the commentators yesterday said something about chris nights having a disposal efficiency in the mid 50's