Sack Hardwick [merged]

[one-eyed]

Rohan Connolly has read this thread. Hi Rohan!

[Penelope]

you dont think that sides with more depth cover injuries/suspension better than those with less depth?

[the claw]

While you are by and large right.

Dimma is not without blame. Drafting miller. Playing miller ahead of ypung prospects. His coaching efforts the last few months.

It aint Hardwicks fault.

If you all think Dimma is the problem then you are in fantasy land.

The list is bereft of quality under our top tier of players and once the subs come in when injuries hit it really exposes our side.

You cannot blame Dimma for the sins of 1982 or forcing us to Save Our Skins in 1990 or not signing Northey in 1995 or Spud in 2001 topping up after a Prelim or even and most pertinently having to strip the list back at the end of 2009.

If after two years when we haven't reached where many have wanted us to reach due to the magnitude of the job the incumbent coach has had to deal with and we sack him only for the new regime to spit out the same ambitions for the same result then all these coaches are doing in effect is like a pilot trying to control a plane in a phugoid cycle. See Japan Air Lines 123 boys.

If you want us to be that keep wishing for a sack of coach every two years where some duds will be retained merely b/c a coach needs to see the quality of the list.

Dimma cannot be blamed for last night or for the last 2.5 years. Even Malthouse in 2000 won his first five games after the Pies were wooden spooners in 1999 and yet finished 7-15 because their side was skata and yes even though they made a GF in 2002 laugh all you like where they ever going to win it.  Betheras and co Premiership players. Ha you're all dreaming. Funny thing is you would have all been laughing like I was with Licuria crying on Micks shoulder that year and laughing even harder in 03 when they got beaten by 10 goals. The rebuild will take longer than you guys care to believe or want to believe and regardless of the calibre of coach it still will take time.

of course hes made mistakes and continues to do so. only a fool would argue he hasnt. but surely we expected mistakes from a rookie coach with a poo list. hes probably making half of it up as he goes.  all i can say is get used to it he will make plenty more but thats okay by me as long as he  learns from them.

at the end of the day there are only two reasons why this thread exists.

some fools overrate the list and expected  finals and are bitter. or theres some real fishermen on this site. me i reckon its the former seems most just dont have the intelligence to form a balanced  opinion.

[Chuck17]

I go with the former as well although a throw a bit of mental instability in with the foolishness

[rogerd3]

While you are by and large right.

Dimma is not without blame. Drafting miller. Playing miller ahead of ypung prospects. His coaching efforts the last few months.

It aint Hardwicks fault.

If you all think Dimma is the problem then you are in fantasy land.

The list is bereft of quality under our top tier of players and once the subs come in when injuries hit it really exposes our side.

You cannot blame Dimma for the sins of 1982 or forcing us to Save Our Skins in 1990 or not signing Northey in 1995 or Spud in 2001 topping up after a Prelim or even and most pertinently having to strip the list back at the end of 2009.

If after two years when we haven't reached where many have wanted us to reach due to the magnitude of the job the incumbent coach has had to deal with and we sack him only for the new regime to spit out the same ambitions for the same result then all these coaches are doing in effect is like a pilot trying to control a plane in a phugoid cycle. See Japan Air Lines 123 boys.

If you want us to be that keep wishing for a sack of coach every two years where some duds will be retained merely b/c a coach needs to see the quality of the list.

Dimma cannot be blamed for last night or for the last 2.5 years. Even Malthouse in 2000 won his first five games after the Pies were wooden spooners in 1999 and yet finished 7-15 because their side was skata and yes even though they made a GF in 2002 laugh all you like where they ever going to win it.  Betheras and co Premiership players. Ha you're all dreaming. Funny thing is you would have all been laughing like I was with Licuria crying on Micks shoulder that year and laughing even harder in 03 when they got beaten by 10 goals. The rebuild will take longer than you guys care to believe or want to believe and regardless of the calibre of coach it still will take time.

of course hes made mistakes and continues to do so. only a fool would argue he hasnt. but surely we expected mistakes from a rookie coach with a poo list. hes probably making half of it up as he goes.  all i can say is get used to it he will make plenty more but thats okay by me as long as he  learns from them.

at the end of the day there are only two reasons why this thread exists.

some fools overrate the list and expected  finals and are bitter. or theres some real fishermen on this site. me i reckon its the former seems most just dont have the intelligence to form a balanced  opinion.

some get caught up in the emotion of it all.
then for unforseen reason slip on their
rose colour glasses.

[unplugged]

of course hes made mistakes and continues to do so. only a fool would argue he hasnt. but surely we expected mistakes from a rookie coach with a poo list. hes probably making half of it up as he goes.  all i can say is get used to it he will make plenty more but thats okay by me as long as he  learns from them.

at the end of the day there are only two reasons why this thread exists.

some fools overrate the list and expected  finals and are bitter. or theres some real fishermen on this site. me i reckon its the former seems most just dont have the intelligence to form a balanced  opinion.

The Richmond Football Club expected finals this year.  General football media expected more from Richmond.  Hardwick expected more.  I guess that makes them fools by your criteria.

The amount you have been arguing and making excuses for him, would make you a fool by your criteria.

I guess you are a fool living in a world of fools.  I hope its a happy place.

There is a simple solution to a rookie coach continuing to make the same mistakes three years on.  Replace him with Mick Malthouse.  That's the point of this thread.  You have done a good job of clarifying it.

[WilliamPowell]

.  General football media expected more from Richmond. 

Did they really?

Was that at the start of the season or after we beat Hawthorn or St Kilda

IIRC there were very few had a us playing finals (perhaps 1 or 2), most were tipping us to finish between 10-12 with about 10-11 wins

The media's expectations fo any side change on a week to week basis 

[dwaino]

Have to hand it to the geniuses that reckon Malthouse is knocking down the front door to take over.


Inb4 "club wasted my FTF money to pay out dimsim to get this geriatric  "

[the claw]

of course hes made mistakes and continues to do so. only a fool would argue he hasnt. but surely we expected mistakes from a rookie coach with a poo list. hes probably making half of it up as he goes.  all i can say is get used to it he will make plenty more but thats okay by me as long as he  learns from them.

at the end of the day there are only two reasons why this thread exists.

some fools overrate the list and expected  finals and are bitter. or theres some real fishermen on this site. me i reckon its the former seems most just dont have the intelligence to form a balanced  opinion.

The Richmond Football Club expected finals this year.  General football media expected more from Richmond.  Hardwick expected more.  I guess that makes them fools by your criteria.

The amount you have been arguing and making excuses for him, would make you a fool by your criteria.

I guess you are a fool living in a world of fools.  I hope its a happy place.

There is a simple solution to a rookie coach continuing to make the same mistakes three years on.  Replace him with Mick Malthouse.  That's the point of this thread.  You have done a good job of clarifying it.

na naieve supporters expected finals. those same  supporters who ignore basic things like depth experience age and quality. that would make em fools.
those same foolish  supporters who thinks coaches dont make mitakes least of all rookie coaches and then  bleat like pigs because a rookie coach makes a few mistakes as he goes.

if you think mick would have done any better and been mistake free with the current list you truly are deluded.

just for the record the clubs clearly stated aim  aim was to make finals just as it is for every club every yr. the clubs clearly stated expectation was to achieve  overall improvement weather that meant finals or not. being a reasonable person who uses a bit of common sense id say they have achieved that wouldnt you.

[unplugged]

This is for you Claw who loves to call Richmond supporters fools and naive because he has no other means to defend the inexcusable.

It is clear that Hardwick has failed this year by any reasonable expectation.

A list that can beat Sydney and Hawthorn but can't beat GCS, a Carlton reserve team and struggled against GWS.  A massive under performance in 2012.  To lose NINE close games is inexcusable but you will still make up excuses in your deluded fantasy.  The coach finally admits something is seriously wrong and you pat him on the back for it and say its ok.  After spending the whole year facilitating the delusion that nothing is wrong.  This is year 3.  Not year 1.  Rookie does not cover it anymore.

Those who prefer to be mired in mediocrity can overlook the obvious and create a plethora of excuses.  The same excuses they were bandying for Wallace and Frawley. When the next mediocre coach comes in, if Malthouse isn't signed up, you will be crying that it isn't his coaching that is bad but the terrible list Hardwick left him.

You will ignore your rubbish 7/3 rule in favour of pure speculation and fantasy.  You will ignore Maric being boundary side while Armfield was goal side unopposed to kick an easy and crucial goal.  Or that Murphy ran free the whole game.  Their best quality disposer of the football in the midfield on the night while our best midfielders were shut down.  Or that no one was in the square to defend Mcleans goal in the dying minute of the game.  Or the ridiculous interchanges.  You will ignore the fundamental mistakes that would not occur to the same degree or as often under a well coached under 18 side but happen regularly at Richmond.

We lost 9 close games this year because we were out coached.  We did that with Tuck, who the coach crucified last year because he is totally clueless and has no concept of his playing list.  We lost the last 3 close games in a row, a rare achievement for any club.  We had the most horrible last minute of football ever against GCS.  We have found new lows, that even victory starved Richmond supporters have not witnessed in 30 years.

History is repeating yet again at Punt Road.  Only because of weak supporters like you Claw are they able to get away with it.  If you demand mediocrity, that is what you get.

[JVT]

A list that can beat Sydney and Hawthorn but can't beat GCS, a Carlton reserve team and struggled against GWS. 

Didn't read the rest of your post, but what sort of lineup do you think we fielded against GC, GWS and Carlton? Minus our top 6-7 players last week it was basically Coburg running around. Carlton reserves beat our 'depth' or 'dead-wood' (whichever term you want to use, because Moore/McGuane/A Maric/Post et al. to me dont cut it as 'depth') by 4 points, and I think they had a generous calling from the maggots on the night too. Last 2 weeks there have been some costly desicions in front of goal from the umpires awarding free goals to the opposition or cheating us out of one (Edwards) and when a straight kick is the final margin, just goes to show how much of an impact calls on a game can have.

Had that Edwards decision been called properly when it came back as inconclusive, and that maggot not called on Tuck for 'holding the ball' after his pathetic excuse for a bounce, then we would be talking up our finals appearance. It's a really fine line.

[Tigeritis™©®]

This is for you Claw who loves to call Richmond supporters fools and naive because he has no other means to defend the inexcusable.

It is clear that Hardwick has failed this year by any reasonable expectation.

A list that can beat Sydney and Hawthorn but can't beat GCS, a Carlton reserve team and struggled against GWS.  A massive under performance in 2012.  To lose NINE close games is inexcusable but you will still make up excuses in your deluded fantasy.  The coach finally admits something is seriously wrong and you pat him on the back for it and say its ok.  After spending the whole year facilitating the delusion that nothing is wrong.  This is year 3.  Not year 1.  Rookie does not cover it anymore.

Those who prefer to be mired in mediocrity can overlook the obvious and create a plethora of excuses.  The same excuses they were bandying for Wallace and Frawley. When the next mediocre coach comes in, if Malthouse isn't signed up, you will be crying that it isn't his coaching that is bad but the terrible list Hardwick left him.

You will ignore your rubbish 7/3 rule in favour of pure speculation and fantasy.  You will ignore Maric being boundary side while Armfield was goal side unopposed to kick an easy and crucial goal.  Or that Murphy ran free the whole game.  Their best quality disposer of the football in the midfield on the night while our best midfielders were shut down.  Or that no one was in the square to defend Mcleans goal in the dying minute of the game.  Or the ridiculous interchanges.  You will ignore the fundamental mistakes that would not occur to the same degree or as often under a well coached under 18 side but happen regularly at Richmond.

We lost 9 close games this year because we were out coached.  We did that with Tuck, who the coach crucified last year because he is totally clueless and has no concept of his playing list.  We lost the last 3 close games in a row, a rare achievement for any club.  We had the most horrible last minute of football ever against GCS.  We have found new lows, that even victory starved Richmond supporters have not witnessed in 30 years.

History is repeating yet again at Punt Road.  Only because of weak supporters like you Claw are they able to get away with it.  If you demand mediocrity, that is what you get.

100 % agree.
But I was glad that Hardwick finally admitted there's a problem. Let's hope he finally fixes it before it's too late. And it's the beginning of an era of excellence we've haven't seen at tigerland for a long long time.
It's time we cured tigeritis and eradicate mediocrity from the club altogether.

[rogerd3]

geez the players get a free ride dont they.

[JVT]

Blaming Hardwick? You can only lead a horse to water  The problem isn't Hardwick, its our 'depth' players covering injuries. They aren't good enough for the VFL let alone the AFL. 

[unplugged]

Didn't read the rest of your post, but what sort of lineup do you think we fielded against GC, GWS and Carlton? Minus our top 6-7 players last week it was basically Coburg running around.

I call BS.

List the top 6-7 players who were missing?  Cotchin, Deledio, Martin, Rance, Riewoldt, Tuck.   They would be the top 6 players on our list and they all played against Carlton?

Are you talking about Vickery.  He was useless at the start of the season.  Couldn't take a mark to save himself.  He isn't top 6.  Foley.  He's not top 6 and injury prone to boot.  Grimes.  He hasn't played 20 games of AFL.  Kidding if he is top 6.

If you want to talk about the team suspension of Martin in the GCS game.  That was coach inflicted.  Should never have been suspended.  Should have been given community service, paint over some grafiti, visit sick children in hospital, help some elderly, visit disadvantaged kids etc.  Been given some education on pills etc.  So he could understand how lucky he is.  Not suspended which punishes the whole team and the fans.  It was a first offense if you believe the club but they have been dragging his character through the mud ever since.

Post was picked round 1.  He's not a first season kid.  Moore.  People have been crying that we need him back for how long and using him as an injury excuse for losing.  Now that he is back.  He's ordinary.  He was ordinary back then too.  Maric.  How did he get picked.  How did we draft him to begin with.  Melbourne midget reject.  McGuane contributed more than Riewoldt did.  Kicked a ripping goal.  Hes actually a very good example of a depth player, because he has played afl for a while and has the fitness base unlike the kids Carlton fielded.

Against that Carlton reserve side, we should have been 10 goals up.  We made it a fine line.  It should never have been one.