Sack Hardwick [merged]

[The Machine]

First things first someone needs to be ruthless. Dimma or the club. So sick of watching underskilled hacks from other clubs and our own run around. They served a purpose at first because they stop us from being Melbourne like with no leadership so guys like Jackson etc get a game. My issue is that right now we have so many on our list that we keep playing them and it's stopping us from developing our promising kids. And yes, they are promising. Not saying throw in 10 juniors into the side and watch us get pantsed every week but blood 2 at a time. (not including Flossy because he's already pretty established) Give them 5-6 games and see if they sink or swim.

My biggest gripe with the recycled blokes is how many of them would have been drafted if they were 18 year olds under our recruiting philosophy? (Good kicks and Competitive)

2010
Bachar Houli - Good kick and has improved his competitiveness so would keep playing him is doing well.
Shaun Grigg - Can't kick and is about as uncompetitive as we have in the team. No cost to us in that trade but he wouldn't have been drafted and doesn't fit the type of player we want at the club yet gets games.
2011
Ivan Maric - Good kick when fully fit for a big fella and very competitve. Obviously needed a ruckman and was fantastic last year. Shouldn't be playing as he clearly looks injured. My fear is we have broken him already.
2012
Troy Chaplin - Decent kick and been pretty competitive so would probably just pass. Been a good pick up so far.
Chris Knights - Good kick and competitive. Probably best 22 and offered something we lack so isn't holding a kid out.
Ricky Petterd - guy competes but can't kick to save himself yet was a walk up start over Vlastuin.
Sam Lonergan - super competitive but skills, skills, skills. Wouldn't get a second look from our recruiters if he was an 18 year old draft hopeful, yet cracked a game on the weekend.
Orren Stephenson - not ever going to be a long termer but at least has a crack and is back up if Big O goes down. We haven't got a young ruck coming through outside McBean who looks like a gun forward so no harm there.
Aaron Edwards - what purpose does a 29yo 184cm FF have for our team? If we cop an injury to a KPF then a Griff/Elton/Astbury even McBean (last resort) should be getting a crack first.

The next group I want to look at is the older Richmond players who keep getting games despite not fitting the kicking profile.

Robin Nahas - too small, can't win his own ball, too slow and can't kick over a jam tin. Does he offer a big body? No. Does he offer leadership? No. Develop a kid like McDonough in his role.
Matty White - again another small who lacks skill. Doesn't seem to be a real leader and isn't a body protecting the kids. Move Edwards into his role up forward and give a kid like Arnot or Helbig a crack in the midfield.
Luke McGuane - has improved this year and given us a decent target. But is decent what we want from our CHF or do we want to try get something better than that? We have Griff, Elton, Astbury and McBean playing ressies. They won't develop at Coburg and Griff and Astbury are now 4th year players who we need to make a call on in the next year or so.
Daniel Jackson - I can actually see the purpose of why he plays as he's the one always blocking but with our game style, opponents just sag off him and let him have the ball because he's a butcher. Play him in a tagging role and get him to nullify the oppositions best player. ie. Goddard or Watson. Either that or give his spot to a Arnot/Helbig.
Shane Tuck - gives it his all and we struggle without him. We need to find a replacement in the draft soon as he won't be around forever. Feel like we can't play him and Jacko with our game style even though we should be able to. (Will elaborate later)
Shane Edwards - another who has been butchering it lately. Needs to slow himself down when kicking because his hands in traffic are great. He's a small forward though so we need to be playing him there.
Alex Rance - prone to the odd howler but as a KPD I think we can carry one or two blokes like that. Just needs to take the easy/safe option when possible.

That's 7 players in the side lacking in foot skills. Then you add Grigg & Petterd as well who've been regular members and you're nearly at half the team. Aren't we a high possession team that uses foot skills?

KIDS NOT GETTING A REGULAR GAME

Matt Dea - comes in does ok gets dropped. Comes in does ok gets dropped again. I really rate this kid but this isn't helping his confidence. His skills are good, is very good defensively, gutsy as all hell and has great touch below his knees, is as clean as anyone on the list. Give him 5 or 6 games in a row and see what he offers.

David Astbury - this guy was so good in his first year. Cool, calm and collected. Good skills, good leadership and maybe a victim of his own versatility? I'd like to see him get a game at FB (Hurley would have been a good assignment actually.) Batch isn't a KPD and is therefore inconsistent in the role but is making a decent fist of it. Adelaide game onwards and give him a crack at Jenkins.

Ben Griffiths - worst effort to develop a player I think I've seen. Kid looks shot a bit like Post actually. He's a FF and nothing else. Get rid of McGuane and move Riewoldt to CHF and let this kid play out of the square. I reckon he swapped between fwd/back about 5-6 times on Saturday. poohouse for his development. If he flunks it at FF either trade or delist by end of next year. At least give the kid a crack at it though.

Brad Helbig - midfield, midfield, MIDFIELD. He's not a small lock down defender. He's a tough, inside mid with foot skills who if playing outside the midfield is more forward than back IMO. Get rid of Nahas and play this kid. Can't do any worse and find out what he's got.

Kamdyn McIntosh - not ready yet but wouldn't mind him getting a crack in last couple of games to see what he's got. Went up a notch last year when he played at a higher level.

Liam McBean - again not ready but should get a game as a forward (very late in season) if Griff struggled in the role.

Matthew McDonough - wasn't sure on his tank but he was everywhere on Saturday. Depending on his knee I'd play him this week over White. We go up a notch in skills and he's capable of finding as much ball as Whitey.

Todd Elton - don't mind him being developed down back and would like to see him get a crack later in the year at FB. Reckon he could be our big, athletic Carlisle/Talia type defender. Unlike Griff he's played there before. I worry about his skills but Talia is an ordinary kick but has improved and as that dour defender shouldn't need to get much of the ball.

Matthew Arnot - not sold on his skills but should replace Lonergan straight away. Again, give him a block of games to see if he's up to it and if not then delist and try again.

Brett O'Hanlon - unfortunately injured but at some stage should take Grigg's spot on a wing to try him out in FULL games. Better mark and better kick but just as outside as Grigg is.

MY GRIPE

There's two major gripe's I have with Dimma and they're the reason why last night I was one of the ones advocating Paul Roos because I've lost faith in Dimma's direction.

1. "Full rebuild, no shortcuts and no gifted games". These were Dimma's words not mine. I've had no negative comments about the direction the club is heading though I have had concerns over my second point for awhile. Reason I've been positive is for 3 years we stayed the course. Dimma cut the list deep and weeded out a lot of outright spuds and got games into kids. But Dimma has now gone out and loaded up with "back-up players" from other clubs. (Petterd, Stephenson, Lonergan, Edwards, Knights) Not really disappointed with that because they are back-ups if our kids get tired or we run out of players. My issue with Dimma is he has played all these guys over the top of the kids we have been getting games into. Looking back at that list of kids (plus Batch) not getting a regular game and we have Dea (22 games), Batchelor (36), Astbury (24), Griffiths (19), Helbig (16), O'Hanlon (. These guys should have been getting another 22 games under their belts this year (injury permitting of course) But instead we've gone down the 2013/14 must make finals at all costs path. I have no doubt we will play finals either this year or next but the path Dimma is taking to me screams a 7th/8th side not a future premiership contender.

Now obviously Dimma didn't want to gift these kids games. That's fine with me. But don't bloody gift games to mature age rejects that don't deserve it either. Does Petterd deserve a game more than Dea or Batchelor? Could Batch play the Petterd role and Astbury get a game as a KPD? Does McGuane deserve a game (currently) more than a Griff/Elton/McBean? Does Lonergan deserve a game more than a Helbig or an Arnot? Does Grigg deserve a game over an O'Hanlon/Helbig? Do White/Nahas deserve games over McDonough?

*Haven't mentioned Tuck/Jackson here because in the right system they'd be fine in the team.

2. Our game plan. "The Hawthorn model." Ok, so Dimma wants us to play the Hawthorn model of keeping possession of the ball with high level of foot skills. However, looking at the 22 on the weekend the following are not capable of playing this type of game plan. Grigg, Edwards (full time midfield version), McGuane, Rance, Lonergan, Jackson, Chaplin (borderline), Nahas, White. 9/22 and you could probably add Foley to that list too. King would be borderline, though plays deep forward so not really an issue and I've cut Maric some slack as a ruck his skills aren't bad for a big fella. Nearly half the bloody side can't play the game plan we want to play. 3 of those blokes have been recruited by Dimma and the rest Dimma has had a chance to get rid of over 4 off-seasons.

My next issue with the game plan is whether or not people believe it is a finals winning game plan and then a flag winning game plan. Hawthorn despite being regular favourites for the flag have won one premiership with this model and if everyone casts their mind back Geelong should have torched them that day. Will it hold up under finals intensity against a Sydney/Freo pressure game plan? I'm far from convinced.

Hawthorn would be unlikely to have 9 players on the list that can't play the game plan let alone in the 22 on game day. We just don't have the cattle to play this way. The other thing Hawthorn have in their way is some genuine superstars (Franklin, Hodge, Mitchell) and match winners, who win games on their own. (Cyril, Franklin) We have star players and not many win a game off your own boot match winners.

Magnificent and correct assessment - well done!

[Ruanaidh]

Yeah well done Tigs

[tony_montana]

well said tigs, great post  The only thing I disagree on is McGuane, apart from the last 2 weeks he has earnt his spot and if anybody should have made way for Griff/Astbury it should have been Tyon form. But agree that medium term he could easily have been phased out if/when Griff and Astbury start showing something

[eliminator]

I think Tigs makes some fair points. Especially agree with the comments that we need a replacement for Tuck.

[Gigantor]

what you also have to remember is that currently our whole second tier of midfielders is not playing(Conca,tuck.ellis,knights,)..it doesn't help

[YellowandBlackBlood]

I've emailed it to Damien.

Hope he reads it and replies!

[dwaino]

I've emailed it to Damien.

Hope he reads it and replies!

It will read something like:

Look [something simething]

But [something somehing]


Instant Dimma.

[Stripes]

I've emailed it to Damien.

Hope he reads it and replies!

It will read something like:

Look [something simething]

But [something somehing]


Instant Dimma.

No doubt. 

Agree with much of what you say tigs but we've been down the 'get games into the kids' route and failed miserably using it. Give games to the kids to earn it yes and who out perform the more experienced players. Nahas and Lonegan don't offer anything that McDonough or Arnot wouldn't so I agree with that swap. McBean later in the year to take McGuanes place - agree there too.

What I don't want to see is us making whole sale changes and I don't want to see us throwing our talent to the wolves. As much promise as they show don't create another Post or Tambling by expecting too much too soon and ripping the confidence out of the kids. They need time and other side like your Geelongs and Collingwood never bring in kids unless they are fully ready in terms of body size and confidence.

Our biggest problems this year is really injuries both to Maric and our next rank of midfielders. This is making the rest of the team look bad as it is forcing us to play too many of our backup players together and exposing our backline and forwards. Without the engine room firing nothing runs properly.

[Eat_em_Alive]

I've emailed it to Damien.

Hope he reads it and replies!

It will read something like:

Look [something simething]

But [something somehing]


Instant Dimma.

No doubt. 

Agree with much of what you say tigs but we've been down the 'get games into the kids' route and failed miserably using it. Give games to the kids to earn it yes and who out perform the more experienced players. Nahas and Lonegan don't offer anything that McDonough or Arnot wouldn't so I agree with that swap. McBean later in the year to take McGuanes place - agree there too.

What I don't want to see is us making whole sale changes and I don't want to see us throwing our talent to the wolves. As much promise as they show don't create another Post or Tambling by expecting too much too soon and ripping the confidence out of the kids. They need time and other side like your Geelongs and Collingwood never bring in kids unless they are fully ready in terms of body size and confidence.

Our biggest problems this year is really injuries both to Maric and our next rank of midfielders. This is making the rest of the team look bad as it is forcing us to play too many of our backup players together and exposing our backline and forwards. Without the engine room firing nothing runs properly.

Valid points and on that last one we are forced to make do with what we do have.
And until next year draft/ recruit more quality midfielders into our team, we should also go down the avenue of picking up a couple of kids in young 20's ala gws, gc players if there is quality out of contract.
Our biggest problem is we need to make it attractive to come here and by doing that we need to make finals this year amoung many other reasons. I would say alot of the kids at gold coast would be buying into them this year as they are slowly making progress and maybe 1-2 yrs from pushing for the 8.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Tigs, you've done a great job mate. Well done.
I agree 100% with all you've said. 

The game plan that wins premierships is a hard man on man, fight to the death, never beaten game plan.
Swans don't have match winners but beat a team with many match winners.
If you watch all finals matches bar maybe the early rounds with teams 7 or 8, in most finals, games plans go out the window and teams resort to man on man footy.
That's why it's imperative to have a team of hard arse tacklers that won't take a backward step but its also important to have guys that aren't scared to take the game on and run.
You need skill but you also hard heads that want to get and can get the ball themselves.
This soft lollypop footy will never cut it in the finals.

[tigs2011]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

I've emailed it to Damien.

Hope he reads it and replies!

It will read something like:

Look [something simething]

But [something somehing]


Instant Dimma.

No doubt. 

Agree with much of what you say tigs but we've been down the 'get games into the kids' route and failed miserably using it. Give games to the kids to earn it yes and who out perform the more experienced players. Nahas and Lonegan don't offer anything that McDonough or Arnot wouldn't so I agree with that swap. McBean later in the year to take McGuanes place - agree there too.

What I don't want to see is us making whole sale changes and I don't want to see us throwing our talent to the wolves. As much promise as they show don't create another Post or Tambling by expecting too much too soon and ripping the confidence out of the kids. They need time and other side like your Geelongs and Collingwood never bring in kids unless they are fully ready in terms of body size and confidence.

Our biggest problems this year is really injuries both to Maric and our next rank of midfielders. This is making the rest of the team look bad as it is forcing us to play too many of our backup players together and exposing our backline and forwards. Without the engine room firing nothing runs properly.

As I said at the start of the post with the kids it needs to be a gradual progression. And by kids most of them are 3rd/4th year players anyway. Helbig/Dea/Astbury/Griff. We need to find out if those 4 are going to be part of the future and personally don't think they are worse than Lonergan/Petterd etc. Then O'Hanlon, Arnot and Elton should be getting a few games here and there by end of season. McDonough is the final one who I think his form will warrant a game pretty soon. Kid will be a gun. Maybe give McBean a taste against GWS late season if Griff is struggling.

Definitely agree that injuries are hurting us but these injuries should be an opportunity to Dea/Helbig/Astbury/Griff to get some games under their belt. We should be using the injuries as a positive to try develop some future players. As soon as all those blokes are back these guys definitely won't get a look in if they can't now.

Vickery needs a rocket at some stage and if he hasn't lifted his intensity a forward line with Griff, Jack and Elton with Griff and Elton pinch hitting at times in the ruck while Ty plays VFL may just be what he needs to bring the best out of him. Dimma has options he just chooses not to use them.

[georgies31]

Guys wasnt Dimma the one who said we wont recruit players to this club that cant kick ???.Lonergan,Petterd,Grigg, the list goes on players getting games who cant kick.Totally agree on Griff we are hurting his development and doing another Post.Back and  forward how many times.For ffs his a forward give him 5 games in the forward line and dont move him.

[eliminator]

The summary by Tigs2011 was comprehensive and well thought out. For what it is worth my view is. Agree Griffiths should be played in the forwardline and play in that position for several weeks while gaining form. McGuane's transition to the forwardline was a good move but if you play in the forwardline you have to kick accurately. You have to make the most of your chances. McGuane is a good mark but is a terrible kick and if you put a good defender on him he fades out of the game. McGuane is struggling for form and should be dropped. Griffiths or Astbury should be considered.

McBean is a good prospect but must be given time to develop. Against rushing him into the team.  Likewise McDonough and Elton should be given time to develop.

Sadly I think White and Nahas are past their used by dates and if we are to build a side capable of winning a premiership these players must be delisted. I think we should try Arnot and Helbig. We should get games into them. See if they are upto it. Likewise Dea. Play him for more than one week see if he is upto it

Agree injuries have hurt us this year eg Grimes, Tuck and Conca. Tuck's injury has exposed the need to develop a hard inside midfield player. Hopefully Arnot or Helbig could fill that role.

Agree Batchelor should not be playing on key position players. He is a back flanker. I think Batchelor is better than Petterd-Batchelor offers more. Agree we need to develop a tall backman.

Houli has improved his defensive skills this year in particular his tackling and is generally a good kick. Agree if we are to play a high possession game we need players who can kick the ball well. Lonergan and Petterd can't kick and Grigg it seems can only short pass.

We must improve our tackling, pressure on opponents when we don't have the ball and centre clearances if we are to be a genuine finals contender.

Agree Vickery should play forward not in the ruck. For the moment the Big O should be the second ruckman.

Agree with comments about Rance. Agree Edwards should play in the forwardline and agree with comments about Aaron Edwards.

[Stripes]

Agree Vickery should play forward not in the ruck. For the moment the Big O should be the second ruckman.

Agree with comments about Rance. Agree Edwards should play in the forwardline and agree with comments about Aaron Edwards.

I agree with everything you said eliminator including how comprehensive and well thought out tiges post/s were.

The only exceptions I have is for the above comments. I don't think the Big O can rest forward as our second ruck. Just doesn't have the skills imo.

Edwards has shown much more than I would have given him credit for this year. He is a quick and lateral thinker who is very creative around stoppages. The problem with his is that he struggles to win his own ball. Ideally he should play the majority of his football in the forward line or HFF rotating into the midfield on occasions.

I would like to see A Edwards have a go in McGuane place this week. I think he has earned a spot. The big knock on him has been his defensive pressure and size against the bigger defenders because he plays as a leading forward. Before we give the young forwards a place we need to reward a player who has earned a chance with his consistent performances in the VFL.

I believe the biggest problem we have this year is Maric. He is not performing to the same standard he did last year. I also believe a big part of this is his ankle and another part is the new ruck rule. Other ruckmen are jumping over him now and he can't combat that now with his ankle and inability to impede their run. This is causing our midfielders to be beaten as they are constantly second to the ball atm.

Tucks absence also really hurts us. He is such an under-rated player. Watson would not have won anywhere near as much ball on the weekend if Tuck had of been knocking him aside at stoppages. He allows us first use week in week out. Without Foley firing we are reliant on Cotch who is tagged heavily and players like Jackson who aren't up to it. We can't expect players like Edwards or White to win the ball and developing players such as Vlaustin is already shouldering too much. Conca's return will be welcomed but he is only a baby himself. Lonegan is not the answer either. At the moment the cards just aren't falling our way.

[WilliamPowell]

I believe the biggest problem we have this year is Maric. He is not performing to the same standard he did last year. I also believe a big part of this is his ankle and another part is the new ruck rule. Other ruckmen are jumping over him now and he can't combat that now with his ankle and inability to impede their run. This is causing our midfielders to be beaten as they are constantly second to the ball atm.

I agree with you about Maric stripes, he's been disappointing based on last year's output. Having said that though considering he's been playing "sore" since round 2 I think we can cut him some slack. Funny how the media are now noticing it.

I think it was in yestrerday's HUN I read that he "looked to be carrying something" No kidding 

But I don't believe it is the ankle injury. He has only had that 3 odd weeks, his mobility problem whether that be jumping, running or even his kicking more than 20 metres has been and issue for most of the season. Hence, why I keep mentioning the groin problem.

In a perfect world you wouldn't play him, rest him up and get it right but clearly the powers that be have decided we cannot afford to do that.

Question I ask is keep playing him at what cost?