Author Topic: Essendon face AFL probe/Players found Guilty by CAS  (Read 661513 times)

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3255 on: January 18, 2015, 11:36:39 PM »
https://www.maroubrapharmacyonline.com.au/peptide-products/buy-thymosin-beta-4-australia/?gclid=CLHZ2Madl8MCFVeXvQodk30AnQ

It shows Alavi knows what he tests - so he lied!

It shows that TB4 is promoted due to its immune benefits just like Dank told Nick McKenzie in that infamous article:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-science-of-stephen-dank-20130823-2shhd.html

Of course, 24 hours later he said he made a mistake and meant thymomodulin.
In that first link, it's interesting that Alavi keeps calling TB-4 simply as Thymosin.

Also, the molecular formula (C46 H56 N12 O6) Alavi has as TB-4 is actually GHRP-6 (also banned) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone_releasing_hexapeptide

So he could have tested GHRP-6 as well as TB-4 and called it 'thymosin'.

Then there's that site's "esteemed hormone doctor" from gawd knows where.

If it wasn't so serious it would be a comedy. You couldn't make this stuff up :rollin.

As an aside, there's a rumour doing the rounds that the lawyers representing the players have told them to prepare for suspensions. Don't worry lads the EFC has your best interests at heart  ::) :facepalm.

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Offline Chuck17

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3256 on: January 19, 2015, 10:09:46 AM »
Suspensions for players is fine, the important thing in all this is that James Hird is exonerated

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3257 on: January 20, 2015, 09:02:52 AM »
Suspensions for players is fine, the important thing in all this is that James Hird is hung, drawn and quartered.

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Offline one-eyed

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3258 on: January 20, 2015, 06:31:32 PM »
Two former Essendon players embroiled in the ASADA scandal are considering taking a deal that would see them miss two games of football.

3AW's Sam McClure said exclusively on Sports Today that the pair were "very close" to accepting an offer that was currently on the table.

"That deal would involve players missing two games of football," McClure said.

"That would have huge ramifications for the rest of the Essendon players."

http://www.3aw.com.au/news/two-former-essendon-players-embroiled-in-the-asada-scandal-are-considering-taking-a-deal-20150119-12tl08.html


CURRENT and former Essendon players launched their defence at the AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal on Tuesday in their case against the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority.

The Tribunal moved to hear opening submissions from Neil Clelland QC on behalf of two former Essendon players on Tuesday.

The remaining 32 current and former Bombers were then represented by David Grace QC.

The Tribunal also heard submissions on the admissibility of certain evidence to be considered by the Tribunal.

Lawyers for the players will argue the players were given a legal version of thymosin, thymosin alpha-1 or thymodulin.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-20/bombers-open-their-case

tony_montana

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3259 on: January 20, 2015, 10:44:42 PM »
2 games,

that's harsh!

Offline Smokey

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3260 on: January 20, 2015, 11:16:55 PM »
2 games,

that's harsh!

Worth it if it stabs the rest!!

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3261 on: January 21, 2015, 01:26:21 AM »
James Hird unlikely to win but players will be cleared, says David Galbally

  Jon Pierik
    The Age
    January 21, 2015


Leading Melbourne lawyer David Galbally says James Hird is unlikely to succeed in his Federal Court appeal but, citing an AFL case almost 20 years old, expects the Essendon players to escape punishment before the league's anti-doping tribunal.

The anti-doping case resumed behind closed doors in the Victorian County Court on Tuesday, with David Grace, QC, representing 32 of the 34 current and former players charged with taking a banned substance, and Neil Clelland, QC, representing former Bombers Stewart Crameri and Brent Prismall, delivering their opening submissions.

Hird is also awaiting a decision from the Federal Court on his bid to overturn Justice John Middleton's ruling that the 2013 investigation by the AFL and the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority into the Bombers' supplements program was lawful. Hird argues it was not, and wants the infraction notices handed to the 34 players withdrawn. That case is now before the anti-doping tribunal.

However, that three Federal Court judges have yet to release their findings on Hird's appeal in November adds to Galbally's belief that the Essendon coach won't be successful. Technically, the Federal Court could torpedo the hearing before the anti-doping panel, setting the whole process back months, even indefinitely, but Galbally believes, at best, Hird can only hope to be personally exonerated of any guilt in the injecting program devised by Stephen Dank.

"It [the appeal] could well scuttle the whole thing, but it's not going to do that. It will deal with Hird and, if anything, it may make comments which limit the way future investigations go," Galbally said on Tuesday.

"But I don't see it as shutting the whole thing down. Pragmatism will take place in being able to resolve this. Courts look at public policy as against private individuals rights. With ASADA and the AFL investigation, and with contract [over anti-doping rules] coming into it, the biggest hurdle Hird has to jump is the private contract that exists between him and the Essendon Football Club, and the Essendon Football Club and the AFL.

"That's a big hurdle because that is a voluntary contract entered into by the parties to abide by certain laws and procedures.

"A court will be reluctant to read that down, and Middleton all but said that. There are some difficulties for Hird in relation to that. The more I think about it and see the way this is going and the longer it takes to hand down the judgment, the greater the chance that he is not going to get a favourable decision.

"I would have thought that if the court was strongly of the view that it was improper conduct, and significantly improper, they [the Federal Court] might have made a statement about delaying the hearing of any cases. It's surprising the players didn't ask for a stay, pending the result. It almost implies that there is a tacit consent that their cases aren't going to be affected by it."

While not involved in either case, Galbally has intricate knowledge of the investigation, having represented former Essendon high-performance chief Dean Robinson in his successful unfair dismissal case against the Bombers.

ASADA counsel Malcolm Holmes, QC, spent six days outlining the anti-doping body's case. Galbally says proving that the banned drug thymosin beta-4 had been injected into the players would be difficult. Three of ASADA's key witnesses have refused to provide evidence in person, having given written statements.

"What I find extraordinary, and I haven't been privy to all the transcripts, but to proceed by way of transcript, rather than having the individuals called, is extraordinary except for the fact that it may well be that the lawyers representing the players have taken the view that there is nothing damaging in the transcripts," Galbally said.

"What Holmes will be able to prove is the purchase by [compound pharmacist Nima] Alavi of thymosin beta-4 and maybe the purchase by Dank of thymosin beta-4. But whether they can take it to the next step of showing whether it has gone to Essendon and then gone to the players, is another thing. That ultimately is the question. That is the evidentiary problem I see ASADA have got."

Galbally said the players had a "bona fide" defence under the AFL's rules in "that they did what they were told to do", and cited the defence he used for former Brisbane premiership star Alastair Lynch in 1998.

"That's the defence I ran with Alastair Lynch with DHEA years ago when he was charged with using DHEA, which is an anabolic steroid for chronic fatigue. There was never an issue that he did use it – it was authorised by doctors and he got off. He was acquitted because the AFL rules provided for it," he said.

"Those in charge of Essendon ticked this off. [But] nobody knows what Dank gave the players – that's the frightening thing."

ASADA maintains players, regardless of a doctor's approval, need to sure of what they were taking.

Galbally also said he had been approached by the parents of two of the 34 players asking what the legal rights of the players would be should they suffer health issues in the years ahead.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hird-unlikely-to-win-but-players-will-be-cleared-says-david-galbally-20150120-12ua9u.html

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3262 on: January 21, 2015, 01:28:41 AM »
Out of interest, the players' opening submission for their defence only lasted half a day as opposed to ASADA's five days.

Offline Yeahright

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3263 on: January 21, 2015, 01:27:10 PM »
Out of interest, the players' opening submission for their defence only lasted half a day as opposed to ASADA's five days.

So where does it go from here?

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3264 on: January 21, 2015, 04:30:26 PM »
Out of interest, the players' opening submission for their defence only lasted half a day as opposed to ASADA's five days.

So where does it go from here?
Not sure what is next as it's all behind closed doors. If all the opening submissions and cross-examining are finished then usually they come back for closing submissions where the plaintiff's lawyer(s) will argue what specific laws/torts makes the defendants guilty with references to previous case examples that demonstrate that those particular laws/torts apply to this case; while the defendants' lawyer(s) will similarly refer to any laws/torts with case examples that they believe gets the defendants cleared.  The tribunal member then adjourns the court and goes away to consider all the evidence and its legal applications. On return, he/she will give their final judgement and reasons for their decision.     

Offline Muscles

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3265 on: January 21, 2015, 06:10:09 PM »
So, I'm guessing it's still a little early to expect my invitation to the necktie party?

Offline 🏅Dooks

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3266 on: January 21, 2015, 09:03:29 PM »
So, I'm guessing it's still a little early to expect my invitation to the necktie party?

Necktie party  :laugh:
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Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3267 on: January 22, 2015, 07:31:01 AM »
James Hird unlikely to win but players will be cleared, says David Galbally

  Jon Pierik
    The Age
    January 21, 2015


Leading Melbourne lawyer David Galbally says James Hird is unlikely to succeed in his Federal Court appeal but, citing an AFL case almost 20 years old, expects the Essendon players to escape punishment before the league's anti-doping tribunal.

The anti-doping case resumed behind closed doors in the Victorian County Court on Tuesday, with David Grace, QC, representing 32 of the 34 current and former players charged with taking a banned substance, and Neil Clelland, QC, representing former Bombers Stewart Crameri and Brent Prismall, delivering their opening submissions.

Hird is also awaiting a decision from the Federal Court on his bid to overturn Justice John Middleton's ruling that the 2013 investigation by the AFL and the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority into the Bombers' supplements program was lawful. Hird argues it was not, and wants the infraction notices handed to the 34 players withdrawn. That case is now before the anti-doping tribunal.

However, that three Federal Court judges have yet to release their findings on Hird's appeal in November adds to Galbally's belief that the Essendon coach won't be successful. Technically, the Federal Court could torpedo the hearing before the anti-doping panel, setting the whole process back months, even indefinitely, but Galbally believes, at best, Hird can only hope to be personally exonerated of any guilt in the injecting program devised by Stephen Dank.

"It [the appeal] could well scuttle the whole thing, but it's not going to do that. It will deal with Hird and, if anything, it may make comments which limit the way future investigations go," Galbally said on Tuesday.

"But I don't see it as shutting the whole thing down. Pragmatism will take place in being able to resolve this. Courts look at public policy as against private individuals rights. With ASADA and the AFL investigation, and with contract [over anti-doping rules] coming into it, the biggest hurdle Hird has to jump is the private contract that exists between him and the Essendon Football Club, and the Essendon Football Club and the AFL.

"That's a big hurdle because that is a voluntary contract entered into by the parties to abide by certain laws and procedures.

"A court will be reluctant to read that down, and Middleton all but said that. There are some difficulties for Hird in relation to that. The more I think about it and see the way this is going and the longer it takes to hand down the judgment, the greater the chance that he is not going to get a favourable decision.

"I would have thought that if the court was strongly of the view that it was improper conduct, and significantly improper, they [the Federal Court] might have made a statement about delaying the hearing of any cases. It's surprising the players didn't ask for a stay, pending the result. It almost implies that there is a tacit consent that their cases aren't going to be affected by it."

While not involved in either case, Galbally has intricate knowledge of the investigation, having represented former Essendon high-performance chief Dean Robinson in his successful unfair dismissal case against the Bombers.

ASADA counsel Malcolm Holmes, QC, spent six days outlining the anti-doping body's case. Galbally says proving that the banned drug thymosin beta-4 had been injected into the players would be difficult. Three of ASADA's key witnesses have refused to provide evidence in person, having given written statements.

"What I find extraordinary, and I haven't been privy to all the transcripts, but to proceed by way of transcript, rather than having the individuals called, is extraordinary except for the fact that it may well be that the lawyers representing the players have taken the view that there is nothing damaging in the transcripts," Galbally said.

"What Holmes will be able to prove is the purchase by [compound pharmacist Nima] Alavi of thymosin beta-4 and maybe the purchase by Dank of thymosin beta-4. But whether they can take it to the next step of showing whether it has gone to Essendon and then gone to the players, is another thing. That ultimately is the question. That is the evidentiary problem I see ASADA have got."

Galbally said the players had a "bona fide" defence under the AFL's rules in "that they did what they were told to do", and cited the defence he used for former Brisbane premiership star Alastair Lynch in 1998.

"That's the defence I ran with Alastair Lynch with DHEA years ago when he was charged with using DHEA, which is an anabolic steroid for chronic fatigue. There was never an issue that he did use it – it was authorised by doctors and he got off. He was acquitted because the AFL rules provided for it," he said.

"Those in charge of Essendon ticked this off. [But] nobody knows what Dank gave the players – that's the frightening thing."

ASADA maintains players, regardless of a doctor's approval, need to sure of what they were taking.

Galbally also said he had been approached by the parents of two of the 34 players asking what the legal rights of the players would be should they suffer health issues in the years ahead.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hird-unlikely-to-win-but-players-will-be-cleared-says-david-galbally-20150120-12ua9u.html
Crap reasoning from Galbally.  The rules are very different now.  If Lynch's case was today, the doctor would have to get a TUE to allow Lynch to use DHEA. If he didn't do that Lynch would certain feel the wrath of the tribunal.  The players didn't get TUE's for TB4. So they are in trouble if it can be shown that they took the drug.
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Offline one-eyed

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3268 on: January 23, 2015, 06:58:09 PM »
So, I'm guessing it's still a little early to expect my invitation to the necktie party?
;D


THE AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal has spent the past two days hearing submissions from Essendon players and the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority on the admissibility of certain evidence relating to the case.

David Grace QC launched the defence of the Essendon players on Tuesday before both sides called on medical specialists to give evidence on Wednesday.

The hearing will continue on Tuesday.


http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-23/asadaessendon-case-to-resume-on-tuesday

Offline Muscles

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #3269 on: January 23, 2015, 08:07:06 PM »
Why would a group of so obviously innocent players waste all this time arguing about the admissibility of ASADA's evidence when they could simply present their own evidence to blow the ASADA case out of the courtroom?

Even the AFL site keeps telling me in every update that ASADA has carelessly lost key witnesses without the Bombers having to reduce their stock of brown paper bags.


(Footnote:  I've been reading the online versions of the Melbourne newspapers lately)