Author Topic: Essendon face AFL probe/Players found Guilty by CAS  (Read 663562 times)

Offline Penelope

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #945 on: July 21, 2013, 09:54:41 AM »
while painkillers are permitted, Blobbo has a point.

They are performance enhancing and should be banned.

If a player has an injury and could not play without the pain being masked, then that substance is enhancing his performance, as well as doing untold damage to the injury.

It is one of the greatest inconsistencies that a player cannot get a legal (to the rest of us) substance to help then recover from an injury, but can legally make an injury worse by numbing the pain it causes.

The difference is one is allowed by wada one is not
Precisely in this Essendon context. Nor can prescribing medication that is well understood medically (including side effects) and that has undergone strict clinical trials on humans be compared to substances that have not been tested on humans and where these substances were secretly experimented on ill-informed footballers. 

al, painkillers don't enhance a footballer's performance beyond his previous normal/uninjured levels.
you could use the same the argument about some of the peptides essendon were using. they only help you recover so they just get you back to the normal level.
You could also use the same argument to allow players to uses steroids to recover from injury (which the rest of us can do).

Legally being able to have injections that allow players to play, who would not otherwise be able to, is enhancing their performance and is a farce



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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #946 on: July 21, 2013, 11:17:55 AM »
while painkillers are permitted, Blobbo has a point.

They are performance enhancing and should be banned.

If a player has an injury and could not play without the pain being masked, then that substance is enhancing his performance, as well as doing untold damage to the injury.

It is one of the greatest inconsistencies that a player cannot get a legal (to the rest of us) substance to help then recover from an injury, but can legally make an injury worse by numbing the pain it causes.

The difference is one is allowed by wada one is not
Precisely in this Essendon context. Nor can prescribing medication that is well understood medically (including side effects) and that has undergone strict clinical trials on humans be compared to substances that have not been tested on humans and where these substances were secretly experimented on ill-informed footballers. 

al, painkillers don't enhance a footballer's performance beyond his previous normal/uninjured levels.
you could use the same the argument about some of the peptides essendon were using. they only help you recover so they just get you back to the normal level.
You could also use the same argument to allow players to uses steroids to recover from injury (which the rest of us can do).

Legally being able to have injections that allow players to play, who would not otherwise be able to, is enhancing their performance and is a farce
The capabilities of these certain peptides and steroids enhances performance beyond an athlete's normal levels though; Painkillers do not. That's why the former are banned by WADA. Sure an athlete can claim he/she was using them only as a recovery tool (Justin Charles' reason) but you'll still get banned because of their performance enhancing (beyond normal) capabilites.

ps. I'm not recommending painkillers by the way. Just stating that Robbo's comparison (re: Essendon) was him clutching at straws with his Bomber beanie on.
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #947 on: July 21, 2013, 12:16:06 PM »
nor am i saying that what robbo is saying is a defence of essendon.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Yeahright

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #948 on: July 21, 2013, 09:41:46 PM »
while painkillers are permitted, Blobbo has a point.

They are performance enhancing and should be banned.

If a player has an injury and could not play without the pain being masked, then that substance is enhancing his performance, as well as doing untold damage to the injury.

It is one of the greatest inconsistencies that a player cannot get a legal (to the rest of us) substance to help then recover from an injury, but can legally make an injury worse by numbing the pain it causes.

Pain killers are performance returning  ;D
Think MT is pretty much spot on although it has been tested on humans and so far been pretty safe

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #949 on: July 22, 2013, 12:15:16 AM »
Gillard as pathetic as the flog  dimwit

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/leaked-asada-file-reveals-favourable-afl-treatment/story-fni3fbgt-1226682793566

Fair dinkum this is becoming more farcical by the day

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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #950 on: July 22, 2013, 04:16:47 AM »
Gillard as pathetic as the flog  dimwit

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/leaked-asada-file-reveals-favourable-afl-treatment/story-fni3fbgt-1226682793566

Fair dinkum this is becoming more farcical by the day
It's been mentioned in the media in the past that the NRL guys tried to avoid any questioning.
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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #951 on: July 22, 2013, 05:31:54 AM »
Gillard as pathetic as the flog  dimwit

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/leaked-asada-file-reveals-favourable-afl-treatment/story-fni3fbgt-1226682793566

Fair dinkum this is becoming more farcical by the day

That's a disgrace.

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #952 on: July 22, 2013, 07:33:32 AM »
Gillard as pathetic as the flog  dimwit

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/leaked-asada-file-reveals-favourable-afl-treatment/story-fni3fbgt-1226682793566

Fair dinkum this is becoming more farcical by the day
It's been mentioned in the media in the past that the NRL guys tried to avoid any questioning.

That's not the part that makes this article sick

When did Cronulla refuse to answer questions?

It seems this back room deal was done from day dot

It's been coming for a while but it's very obvious the players will be spared

Gillard and Dimwit what a pair of fools. It makes sense she had to involve herself

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Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #953 on: July 22, 2013, 11:32:37 AM »
When did Cronulla refuse to answer questions?


daniel, it's been widely reported since the ACC report was released that Cronulla players have refused to be interviewed or the odd couple who have been interviewed have been unco-operative

But an article from yesterday:

Sharks to stonewall ASADA yet again
Date July 21, 2013
Adrian Proszenk Chief Rugby League Reporter

Cronulla officials are expecting their players to submit to ASADA interviews from next week, but it appears interrogators won't be getting any additional cooperation this time around.

So far, Sharks back-rower Wade Graham has been the only NRL player grilled, although that interview was aborted amid legal arguments over how much cooperation was required. But as the anti-doping body prepares to interview the other 30 players of interest, the majority of questions are likely to again be dead-batted as lawyers preserve their client's right against self-incrimination.

Graham has been pilloried for not opening up about the supplement program during his time at the club, but he was not obliged to do so. Rugby League Players' Association boss David Garnsey said ASADA's second attempt at interviews would progress along the same lines as its first.

''If interviews are going to proceed, I imagine they will proceed as they did in the past,'' Garnsey said. ''There was an extensive and lengthy analysis done and the [Graham] interviews were proceeding according to the rules.

Once changes outlined in the ASADA amendment bill become law, the anti-doping agency will be able to demand phone records, text messages, documents and medical prescriptions of players and others, regardless of whether that evidence is self-incriminatory.

While ASADA can compel players to attend interviews via a ''disclosure notice'' - with those refusing to cooperate facing fines of $5100 per day - players can still refuse to answer any questions which could lead to self-incrimination.

Cronulla general manager Steve Noyce said he was yet to be contacted by the NRL or ASADA - ''All we know about it at this stage is what's been written in the paper today'' - but confirmed the players would cooperate. ''They've done that to date. At this stage, yes [they will],'' Noyce said. ''No one has been in touch officially about these things but we'll respond as we have before, in a proactive way.

''We've said all along there is a process in place, everyone understands that. However, we've been asked to support it, we've done that. If what [is reported] is going to happen, so be that. We'll make sure we have the right support, advice and assistance for the players and we'll go forward from there.''

The NRL is expected to officially announce the interview process will resume in coming days. The first interview is expected to be scheduled for next Monday. ''We have always highlighted the ongoing nature of this investigation,'' an NRL spokesperson said. ''We are not in a position to confirm further details of ASADA's progress at this stage. It is in everyone's interests that these issues are resolved and we will continue to work closely with ASADA.''

The timing couldn't be worse for Cronulla, who are attempting to cement their place in the finals series. Coach Shane Flanagan and the players had previously attributed their slow start to the season to the uncertainty hanging over the club.

Asked whether the timing - with the club in a fight to make the playoffs - was a concern, Noyce said: ''I haven't been part of the whole process but I don't think the timing, at any time, is how you'd like it.

''It is as it is, you deal with these things as they come up … The process won't get finished until it gets started - I said that when the original interviews were on.

''Everyone in rugby league would like the process to be resolved sooner rather than later.''

The dramas have had an adverse effect on Cronulla's bottom line. The Sharks were so close to securing Cenovis as their major sponsor that they were already planning launches to celebrate the announcement. But after a spate of negative NRL headlines, the vitamins and supplements company pulled the plug on a deal which would have plastered their name on the front of Cronulla jersey until the end of 2015.

However, there has been some positive news on the sponsorship front. Remondis has taken up the naming rights for their home ground, Painaway has come on board as a sleeve sponsor and One Solution is now emblazoned on their shorts. On Friday, the club signed off on a deal with Reozeone, who will sponsor Flanagan and the club's table-topping NSW Cup team.

''There is lots of exciting news in that regard and we will keep on working on whatever commercial opportunities there are for the club,'' Noyce said. ''There's a good culture; people are coming on board.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/sharks-to-stonewall-asada-yet-again-20130720-2qb20.html#ixzz2ZjY8qtOd


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Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #954 on: July 22, 2013, 11:39:55 AM »
Gillard as pathetic as the flog  dimwit

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/leaked-asada-file-reveals-favourable-afl-treatment/story-fni3fbgt-1226682793566

Fair dinkum this is becoming more farcical by the day

As for the "secret deal" that favours the AFL, think you will find that the same was on the table for the NRL but because their and I'll use your term "dimwit" players and clubs refuse to co-operate well then no benefits coming their way

When the ACC report was released it was made very clear at the start come forward and co-operate with ASADA, name names and the penalties might be slightly more lenient

There is nothing new in the HUN and its sister publications revelations today

Seriously are you that naive to think all pollies don't get involved in these things  ::) ;D ;D


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Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #955 on: July 22, 2013, 12:25:36 PM »
Gillard as pathetic as the flog  dimwit

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/nrl/leaked-asada-file-reveals-favourable-afl-treatment/story-fni3fbgt-1226682793566

Fair dinkum this is becoming more farcical by the day

As for the "secret deal" that favours the AFL, think you will find that the same was on the table for the NRL but because their and I'll use your term "dimwit" players and clubs refuse to co-operate well then no benefits coming their way

When the ACC report was released it was made very clear at the start come forward and co-operate with ASADA, name names and the penalties might be slightly more lenient

There is nothing new in the HUN and its sister publications revelations today

Seriously are you that naive to think all pollies don't get involved in these things  ::) ;D ;D

slightly more lenient is a lot different to no sanctions for the players. Lets see which one it is.

When the players get off you for one will be jumping up and down calling for heads but reality is this whole situation is a farce and i expected players to be removed from all penalties when dimwit changed his tune about 8 weeks ago.



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Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #956 on: July 22, 2013, 01:02:18 PM »
slightly more lenient is a lot different to no sanctions for the players. Lets see which one it is.

When the players get off you for one will be jumping up and down calling for heads but reality is this whole situation is a farce and i expected players to be removed from all penalties when dimwit changed his tune about 8 weeks ago.

daniel, I haven't change my tune on this from day 1 and that is IMVHO the players should be harshly dealt with as should Essendon. I haven't deviated one iota from what I beleive should happen

You are correct that if the players get off without sanction I will be disgusted and calling for heads, not disputing that

But I am not sure me highlighting the fact the so called "secret deal" that's got you so fired (which ASADA has claimed doesn't exist BTW) and has been around and speculated about for months now has got anything to do with what penalties I believe people should get.

I will repeat that when the ACC report was first released all sporting bodies in this country were told that it was in their own best interests to co-operate with any ASADA investigation. I don't think you need to be a rocket sciencetist to know what that meant. The NRL clubs in particular Cronulla for reasons they wont explain have refused to do that.

So I don't think a bunch of NRL centric journos can start crying foul over any supposed deal the AFL or any other sporting body has done when the NRL was afforded the same consideration

Do I agree with it (any deal) no I don't but my point is simply don't sook NRL (Cronulla) when you've done nothing to help yourselves

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Offline one-eyed

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #957 on: July 22, 2013, 07:09:20 PM »
No preferential treatment for Bombers: ASADA

By Matt Thompson
afl.com.au
2:38pm AEST Monday, July 22, 2013


THERE is no deal in place for Essendon players to be offered a "zero sanction" over the club's controversial supplements program in 2012, the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority insists.

But the national sports doping regulator has confirmed it did establish a process with the AFL shortly after the Australian Crime Commission's bombshell report into drugs and organised crime in Australian sport was released in February.

"Given the number of players involved, it was important to have an orderly process to encourage players to come forward," an ASADA spokesperson told AFL.com.au.

"ASADA has not offered a zero sanction to any athlete or support person."

ASADA has also insisted it has never offered incorrect advice over the use of banned supplements or substances. 
 
"At no time has ASADA offered sports advice inconsistent with the World Anti-Doping Code," the spokesperson said.

"Any suggestion to the contrary is incorrect and demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of how ASADA and the World Anti-Doping Code works, and the facts in relation to this investigation."

The agency has dismissed suggestions the AFL is getting favourable treatment compared with the National Rugby League as part of ongoing investigations.

"Under legislation ASADA is required to investigate all possible violations of anti-doping rules, regardless of the sport," the spokesperson said. 

"It treats all sports in an equal and consistent way in accordance with the World Anti-Doping Code."

ASADA's comments on Monday back up a response from the AFL, insisting the League's role was to establish a framework to enable the investigation to proceed.

"All parties have complied with this framework to date," chief executive Andrew Demetriou said.

"The framework did not provide for any guaranteed outcomes re recommendations or sanctions."

ASADA admits the international doping watchdog WADA could ultimately challenge its findings.

"Most critically, WADA provides oversight on all decisions made by ASADA. This means if WADA is unhappy with any anti-doping decision made by ASADA or an individual sport, WADA can appeal that decision," the ASADA spokesperson said.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-22/no-deal-for-bombers

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #958 on: July 23, 2013, 12:19:32 AM »
Dank last night when interviewed by his front fence by Hutchy's crew said Hird was a strong supporter of the program at Essendon.

Caro said Mark Thompson will most likely be cleared as he was never a fan of the program and tried to get it stopped around Anzac Day (I'm presuming she referring to 2012).

Barret said the issue is more to do with the other drugs allegedly involved which come under the more specific S.2 classification than the anti-obesity drug AOD-9604. Hutchy added that Wheatley's comments last week had given foolish Bomber fans false hope.

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Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #959 on: July 23, 2013, 12:27:59 AM »
Barret is a tool of the highest order but it's way easier to hold the spew down than it is with that , lyon
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 07:02:09 AM by WilliamPowell »
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