Essendon face AFL probe/Players found Guilty by CAS

[Gigantor]

WP I guess the stumbling block in all this will be,"proven beyond doubt"
if there is any doubt then, should the players be guilty?

[Judge Roughneck]

WP I guess the stumbling block in all this will be,"proven beyond doubt"
if there is any doubt then, should the players be guilty?

WADA dont require ""proven beyond doubt"

Unlike law and order, a lesser level of guilt is require for bans. No "proven beyond doubt"

[Penelope]

a lesser level of guilt?

welcome to the brave new world?

[WilliamPowell]

WP I guess the stumbling block in all this will be,"proven beyond doubt"
if there is any doubt then, should the players be guilty?

I cannot see them issuing infraction notices against players where there is no "evidence" of what those players were given, that's what I mean by beyond doubt. Whether we like it or not in some cases that is what has happened . You have players clueless with regard to what they were given which is stupid on their part but the case none the less. Then you have an incompetent organisation that kept no records of their program.

So based on that and based on a hunch that I believe ASADA/WADA won't issue notices if they think a person can an appeal and can be won then I reckon some players won't get infraction notices

WP I guess the stumbling block in all this will be,"proven beyond doubt"
if there is any doubt then, should the players be guilty?

WADA dont require ""proven beyond doubt"

Unlike law and order, a lesser level of guilt is require for bans. No "proven beyond doubt"

See above

[Judge Roughneck]

a lesser level of guilt?

welcome to the brave new world?

 not being a smart as but WADA dont need "prove beyond reasonable doubt" ala the American system.

A 'level' or two less is all that is required to ban drug cheats

I would assume this is due to drug cheats often having drugs/techniques more advanced than the testing systems

ill try to find the link

cannot see them issuing infraction notices against players where there is no "evidence" of what those players were given,

I dont think its going to be a situation where they have "no evidence"

Whether we like it or not in some cases that is what has happened . You have players clueless with regard to what they were given which is stupid on their part but the case none the less. Then you have an incompetent organisation that kept no records of their program.

So based on that and based on a hunch that I believe ASADA/WADA won't issue notices if they think a person can an appeal and can be won then I reckon some players won't get infraction notices

I reckon you are mixing your own personal views with the actual rules in place...

[Judge Roughneck]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/bill_em/asaaab2013545/memo_3.html


Article 14(2) of the ICCPR states that everyone charged with a criminal offence shall have
the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law. The right to
presumption of innocence is also a fundamental common law principle.
Laws which shift the burden of proof to the defendant can be considered a limitation of the
presumption of innocence. This is because a defendants failure to discharge a burden of
proof or prove an absence of fault may permit their conviction despite reasonable doubt as to
their guilt. This includes where an evidential or legal burden of proof is placed on a
defendant.
A Bill may operate to limit the right to be presumed innocent through imposing an evidential
burden on the defendant in relation to a range of matters. When a defendant bears an
evidential burden in relation to an exception, it means that the defendant bears the burden of
adducing or pointing to evidence that suggests a reasonable possibility that the exception is
made out. If this is done, the prosecution must refute the exception beyond reasonable doubt.
Under the Bill, and in accordance with the World Anti-Doping Code (the Code), the burden
of proof for establishing an anti-doping rule violation remains with ASADA. The Code
states that:
       The A nti-Doping Organisation shall have the burden of establishing that an anti-doping
       rule violation has occurred. The standard of proof shall be whether the A nti-Doping
       Organisation has established an anti-doping rule violation to the comfortable satisfaction of
       the hearing panel bearing in mind the seriousness of the allegation which is made. This
       standard of proof in all cases is greater than a mere balance of probability but less than proof
       beyond a reasonable doubt.
The Code operates under the principle of strict liability. Under the strict liability principle, an
athlete is responsible, and an anti-doping rule violation occurs, whenever a prohibited
substance is found in an athletes sample.


A brave new world, indeed.

[WilliamPowell]

 not being a smart as but WADA dont need "prove beyond reasonable doubt" ala the American system.

I am well aware of how the WADA and ASADA rules work

I reckon you are mixing your own personal views with the actual rules in place...

As I said I am well aware of the rules and how they work

But I am also entitled to give an opinion on what I think may happen 

[one-eyed]

Essendon players at their 'worst point', says Matthew Lloyd

   Jon Pierik
    The Age
    March 11, 2014


Just days out from the start of the AFL season, Essendon great Matthew Lloyd has revealed Bombers' players involved in the supplements saga are mentally at their "worst point".

The Australian Sports Anti-Doping Agency has said the investigation into what went on at the club through 2012 is complete but retired Federal Court judge Garry Downe is now reviewing the briefs.

This means officials and players, including at least 10 still at the club who believed they were administered either Thymosin, of which there are legal and illegal varieties, the banned anti-obesity drug AOD-9604 or both, face a nervous wait.

Lloyd said the well-being of players has also been impacted by the decision of News Corp newspapers to publish the names of 14 players, including two who are now at other AFL clubs and two who are no longer in the elite system, who suspect they may have been injected with illegal drugs.

The former champion forward and captain said, in terms of mental well-being, players and their families were at "their worst point".

"No doubt. Guys that I have seen as laid-back guys within football and life, I have never seen them so worked up," Lloyd said.

"Players have been linked to things that they took that they are unsure whether they actually took themselves. I think what they are upset about - it's been 14 months since this first broke.

"When is the AFL and ASADA actually going to take responsibility for the mental health of these players?"

Asked by Garry Lyon on Nine's Footy Classified on Monday night whether he was "fearful for any of these players", Lloyd replied: "I am - or a family member. I am not saying the actual players but I am just thinking: 'When do you think about these players who put trust in things and look to wrap these things up?' Fourteen months, that's too long."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-at-their-worst-point-says-matthew-lloyd-20140311-hvh9b.html#ixzz2vd4mv1NJ

[gerkin greg]

Fourteen months? That's still shorter than the amount of time they were taking the drugs LMAO

stew in your poo

[dwaino]

stew in your poo

  love that one 

[Judge Roughneck]

"When is the AFL and ASADA actually going to take responsibility for the mental health of these players?"

oh my goodness. Good point Matty. The players have been brave. So brave. Is anyone thinking about the Essendon players human rights?

When will the EFC players take responsibility for the chemicals they inject? 

[🏅Dooks]

"When is the AFL and ASADA actually going to take responsibility for the mental health of these players?"

 

Like asking police, judge and jury to take responsibility of the mental health of a murderer

Geez gen Y cracks me up. I know Lloyd is prob more gen x but gee whiz take some self responsibility you spoilt shites

[tony_montana]

That comment = Society as it is today

[Judge Roughneck]

[YellowandBlackBlood]

JB looks a though he is thinking "What have I done?"