The Sky is Falling

[Hellenic Tiger]

Petterd going for the ball one handed and dropping an easy mark and Vickery too has to do with individual attitude not whether a tackle or a nimble of tackles made a difference.

With the openness of scoring this season and the higher scores being kicked there are less stoppages and more flow therefore as a stat tackles have fallen as an industry wide thing this year.

Aside from the 25 minutes of the third quarter where all our parameters were woeful it would be remiss of anyone to think that tackling was the only thing S someone is chirping on here.

Now on that where of Martin who went AWOL after half time or the Cotchin clangers or the fact that Lids had 7 kicks and 17 handballs and we overlooked the footy in the first half when the game was to a certain extent manageable or it was on the scoreboard.

Yet tackles are the reason that makes a difference in the overall picture?

Whilst I am not making an excuse for our loss or any individuals as I will dish it out when I deem appropriate to any player what I will say is this as a whole we fell short in a lot of areas today against a side that has made the last 4 Prelims and at this stage of where we are at that is part of the learning process.

What Collingwood showed us today was a lesson in 25 minutes of simple footy lesson 1a run spread first option help kick to the advantage of a forward target and goal. Something we failed to maintain to any reasonable effort in the third.

Overall it wasn't our best effort but the side was competitive and diligent but their execution lacked the polish our opponents had.

As for Grigg and Petterd and others they can only take you up to a point and that point is 6-10 what we need to find, recruit and gather as well as develop is the players who will spread and have the skills and footy smarts to execute simple footy lesson 1a which will help move us up the ladder.

Whilst I am at it I will say that our endeavour and diligence cannot be questioned given the quality we have out there which is good enough to take us to finals but honestly not beyond a second week at best we now need to plan to get us to a stage above that whether it be through development of young talent on our list or free agency.

Tackling has nothing to do with it.

As for Petterd what has he done. All he has done is keep Batchelor out who played well against Carlton and was dropped after a poor effort against St Kilda but who is much more combative and physical than Petterd and who can play both tall and small.

I actually think Dimma got it wrong at selection regardless of what Rance said, Chaplain should have played on Cloke, Batchelor played an excellent game against Collingwood last year and should have played today and Vlaustin should have played today instead of Ellis.

Today was just a bad day whose genesis was spawned at selection on Thursday night and and grew in team planning and positioning on the ground.

[TigerLand]

Came away from the game not really that surprised, think we all knew if Collingwood came toplay and pressured us we'd struggle to stay with them. If we brought our best footy we'd give them a red hot crack but we brought our C Grade effort and the likely result eventuated.

What I came away from the game questioning was:

- The time machine back in time to Terry Wallace game plan of handball at all cost, run and carry? What happened to our kicking to space and going long that worked so well in the first 3 weeks? Maybe Pies pressure caused the lack of time and space to make these decisions which is also an area in itself that we need to get better at. The best sides deal with the opposition coming at you with pressure.

- Lack of option when we had the ball - how many times did we have the ball and Collingwood have a zone press and it felt as if our players conceded that we weren't going to find an obvious option so they waited for the kicker to kick long to a contest? Too many flat footed players today.

- Why did it seem every time we went to Jack that Brown, Reid and Shaw were all around Jack every time he went for the ball where as Cloke had Rance one on one on numerous occasions?

- Happens every week that oppositions cruise out of our backline with ease and each of our kick ins came straight back with interest. Decision making poor kicking to the side where they had Lynch and Hudson following Maric... every single time..

We'll learn from it, players and coaches alike had a bit of a mere, especially in the 3rd qtr.

[one-eyed]

Thought the umpires ought to be strung up was some dead set howlers

Some?

Try fecking heaps!!   

Exhibit A: This was called 'play on' ...

[Francois Jackson]

Petterd going for the ball one handed and dropping an easy mark and Vickery too has to do with individual attitude not whether a tackle or a nimble of tackles made a difference.

With the openness of scoring this season and the higher scores being kicked there are less stoppages and more flow therefore as a stat tackles have fallen as an industry wide thing this year.

Aside from the 25 minutes of the third quarter where all our parameters were woeful it would be remiss of anyone to think that tackling was the only thing S someone is chirping on here.

Now on that where of Martin who went AWOL after half time or the Cotchin clangers or the fact that Lids had 7 kicks and 17 handballs and we overlooked the footy in the first half when the game was to a certain extent manageable or it was on the scoreboard.

Yet tackles are the reason that makes a difference in the overall picture?

Whilst I am not making an excuse for our loss or any individuals as I will dish it out when I deem appropriate to any player what I will say is this as a whole we fell short in a lot of areas today against a side that has made the last 4 Prelims and at this stage of where we are at that is part of the learning process.

What Collingwood showed us today was a lesson in 25 minutes of simple footy lesson 1a run spread first option help kick to the advantage of a forward target and goal. Something we failed to maintain to any reasonable effort in the third.

Overall it wasn't our best effort but the side was competitive and diligent but their execution lacked the polish our opponents had.

As for Grigg and Petterd and others they can only take you up to a point and that point is 6-10 what we need to find, recruit and gather as well as develop is the players who will spread and have the skills and footy smarts to execute simple footy lesson 1a which will help move us up the ladder.

Whilst I am at it I will say that our endeavour and diligence cannot be questioned given the quality we have out there which is good enough to take us to finals but honestly not beyond a second week at best we now need to plan to get us to a stage above that whether it be through development of young talent on our list or free agency.

Tackling has nothing to do with it.

As for Petterd what has he done. All he has done is keep Batchelor out who played well against Carlton and was dropped after a poor effort against St Kilda but who is much more combative and physical than Petterd and who can play both tall and small.

I actually think Dimma got it wrong at selection regardless of what Rance said, Chaplain should have played on Cloke, Batchelor played an excellent game against Collingwood last year and should have played today and Vlaustin should have played today instead of Ellis.

Today was just a bad day whose genesis was spawned at selection on Thursday night and and grew in team planning and positioning on the ground.

Good response and agree with most of it.
 Ive watched the game again this time on TV and their pressure on us for the whole game was first rate.

Watch Cotchin and how many errors he made. I felt they were at us all day causing us to make stupid decisions.

What's happened to that forward press we were so good at last year. Jack R Edwards were fighting tooth and nail last year to keep that ball in. We respond by laying 4 tackles in a quarter of football.

This year teams are cruising out of our back line with great ease

Petterd Grigg and those efforts today were because of the pressure around them. Didn't see those mistakes last week.

Just on Grigg have we overestimated his worth?
I'm trying not to judge him on that effort but what can he actually do for us in our flag aspirations.
A nick DAL type without a penetrating kick.

Would love to see his spot under review at some point this year

We learnt a lot about our side but next week will test us even more.  Massive test

[Rampstar]

As for Grigg and Petterd and others they can only take you up to a point and that point is 6-10 what we need to find, recruit and gather as well as develop is the players who will spread and have the skills and footy smarts to execute simple footy lesson 1a which will help move us up the ladder.

Whilst I am at it I will say that our endeavour and diligence cannot be questioned given the quality we have out there which is good enough to take us to finals but honestly not beyond a second week at best we now need to plan to get us to a stage above that whether it be through development of young talent on our list or free agency.

Excellent points Tucker. I wrote this last night on the Bachar Houli thread

"problem from a supporters point of view is that a lot of people cant see that when Hardwick started this job some people said we had a worse list than Fitzroy. That was the starting point, so Hartley went out and got the likes of Houli and Grigg and thats good because that type of player gets you out of the basement but the reality is that they can only get you to the bottom end of the finals at best. Our supporters or some of them at least seem to think that we can be top 4 ... with whom? With recruiting the likes of Aaron Edwards or Chris Knights or Ricky Petterd?  Problem is they are probably the same level as Houli and Grigg ... players who will only get you to the bottom reaches of the eight. They arent capable of taking us higher. Frank Jackson has done a good job but Ellis, Conca and Vlastuin are one in the same ... I see them as foot soldiers. Then we have too many weaknesses in our team, Jackson has supposedly been our best player (according to the coaches) I cant see it, Newman is getting on, we only have 1 ruckman, we dont have a big defender who can a key forward to the cleaners. Those are problems that any club has to deal with if they want to go higher.

Our side IMHO is not capable of top4. Our side has a maximum output that may get us to 7th or 8th and thats about it. If we want to finish higher we need to 1) get better players 2) develop our players better 3) have our coaches continue to improve. Thats it in a nutshell. We lost today because they (Collingwood) have better players than us. Thats the reality."

[yellowandback]

Great Post Ramps and actually a great thread WAT 
I'd add that it is more so our depth of talent and the extent of player development that is the difference between being middle of the road and top 4.
The Pies have had sophisticated player development programs for a decade, ours started a couple of years ago.
I remember Bobby Simpson installed a competitive attitude and a focus on the basics like fielding when rebuilding the Australian test side 25 years ago, then as we improved there was an increased investment in development programs of our juniors and then we implemented the Cricket Academy which eventually made us an elite team.
There are many sides like us who sit below the top few clubs - Hawks, Pies, Cats and Swans - jostling for position in the bottom rungs of the top 8.
Being middle of the road is good for us, it is progress.
Supporters who fail to see that progress or want to see  accelerated improvement beyond our current state cannot see the forest for the trees.
It's the Rachel Hunter Pantene shampoo syndrome.
BTW, good to see a decent thumping bring out the emotions - been sorely missing from the forum in the 1st month 

[Rampstar]

Great Post Ramps and actually a great thread WAT 
I'd add that it is more so our depth of talent and the extent of player development that is the difference between being middle of the road and top 4.
The Pies have had sophisticated player development programs for a decade, ours started a couple of years ago.
I remember Bobby Simpson installed a competitive attitude and a focus on the basics like fielding when rebuilding the Australian test side 25 years ago, then as we improved there was an increased investment in development programs of our juniors and then we implemented the Cricket Academy which eventually made us an elite team.
There are many sides like us who sit below the top few clubs - Hawks, Pies, Cats and Swans - jostling for position in the bottom rungs of the top 8.
Being middle of the road is good for us, it is progress.
Supporters who fail to see that progress or want to see  accelerated improvement beyond our current state cannot see the forest for the trees.
It's the Rachel Hunter Pantene shampoo syndrome.
BTW, good to see a decent thumping bring out the emotions - been sorely missing from the forum in the 1st month 

If we are 3 and 3 after 6 rounds youll start to see people get abit emotional on the forums and they will be forgetting that we are just middle of the road. 12 wins would be a terrific season for us. People need to adjust their expectations.

[Jackstar is back!!!]

Ramps
Yesterday proved a few things
We arent good enough -player wise
Thought the coaching was poor at times
Petterd spare man back was comical . As if by chance he got possesion, he isnt a run and carry and is a poor kick and decision maker 

[georgies31]

To be honest guys I agree with all of the above,but some of us are getting ahead of ourselves if they thought we were a certain to win against the pies.We aiming for a 6th,7th or 8th position to make the finals we are not close to the top 4 that's my view.When we can do that then we can aim higher.

[Chuck17]

To be honest guys I agree with all of the above,but some of us are getting ahead of ourselves if they thought we were a certain to win against the pies.We aiming for a 6th,7th or 8th position to make the finals we are not close to the top 4 that's my view.When we can do that then we can aim higher.

Unfortunately the more gullible brought the media hype

[Jackstar is back!!!]

hey Chuck.
How did Ivan go against Old Ben Hudson yesterday ?

[Chuck17]

hey Chuck.
How did Ivan go against Old Ben Hudson yesterday ?

LOL been waiting a while to say that haven't you, a season and a few games

[Penelope]

Nothing new here Al thinking his opinion is supreme. Tackles don't matter. Hahaha

 

Why do you make things up?

thats an outright lie, and you know it, unless you can prove thats what i said.

[Jackstar is back!!!]

Credit where its due.
Ivan was sensational last year
This year, brought Carlton back in game in last quarter eg dropped marks, hitouts to opposition players  etc
We got belted against the Saints in centre clearnances and he struggled
Was ok/good against the Minson
I thought yesterday he tried and broke square against a hack.
Either he is injured or gone off the boil.

[WilliamPowell]

Paul Roos agrees with me. I'll take his opinion over yours thankyou.
We play that girly poo pansy footy we ain't playing finals. If we do play finals we will have our pants pulled down like they were today.
You can dream all you like about how you'd like the team to play but a defensive no compromise hard ball, fierce and tough footy is what I want to see.
Kill or be killed! 
They are soft and they shat themselves. Fact!

Unfortunately for you and Paul Roos , Mr Tigra a number of things (they call 'em stat categories) that were quoted in that article are wrong. So sorry if I am not paying much attention to you and Mr Roos