Francis Jackson on TAC Cup Future Stars (Ch 9 today 1pm)

[RedanTiger]

He finds those types, shows the list people the options and as a group they decide on which one to go with. Then on draft day he calls out the number and name

So "as a group they decide".
What a silly way to excuse his efforts.
So the List Committee makes decisions on players that none of them (outside of Jackson) have seen or have detailed stats on.
He also decides on whether the rookie draft has any value, since he's the only voice in List Committee to have seen them.
He, along with Hartley, also decides on the value of kids versus retreads since again he is the only voice to have seen one half of the equation, while Hartley has seen the other half.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Especially 2009 why he thought Griffiths was a better choice than Fyfe and why he believes Griffiths isn't getting a game ahead of Mcguane and a spent hack VFL star in "lockup" Edwards?

Do you seriously believe he has an input why Griffiths isn't getting a game? He is the recruiting manager not chairman of selectors. Once they are drafted it isn't his job to play them

I have to say I find if funny, he is given by the list management team which he ISNT a member of an outline of what the clubs wants the recruiters to focus on, that is outside picks 1 where the clubs policy has been since Dimma been there that we take the best available player, the types of player the club wants. He finds those types, shows the list people the options and as a group they decide on which one to go with. Then on draft day he calls out the number and name

After that point it is up to the club's coaches especially those in development to bring these kids on, that and of course the kid has to willing to work hard. Instead of pointing the finger constantly at our recruiting I believe we should be blow torching our development program more than anything

It's not that I think he has a say in development WP, it would've been great to get his perspective on why Griff isn't playing senior footy and why his development seems to have gone backwards.
If you look at where players after the first round are now playing and getting regular games.
I also agree that it may speak more about our development which has been a serious problem but you'd still expect these guys to atleast play more senior games by now.

......Or Maybe the selections of Griffiths and Astbury were just completely wrong too.
It would've been good to hear FJ perspective on those guys that have been there for a while but aren't getting regular games.
 

[Hellenic Tiger]

Dont dish out too many trade secrets FJ 

Which one's the Jarrad Oakley Nicholls, Ty Vickery  or every kid that hasn't made it from beyond the second draft. Rivetting viewing.

[WilliamPowell]

So do you believe it's DH fault WP?
After all, he chooses his assistant coaches/ development coaches.

I believe it's the Club's fault in that it is only in the last 2 seasons I think really thrown the resources at development. Although, DH has the final say on his assistants the fact that we only have 3 development coaches while other teams have at at least 4, have development academies (Geelong) just further highlights how poorly we've address this area.

Not a doubt in my mind that the reason some of our kids have either stalled in their development or not developed at all is because of our poor development program

[WilliamPowell]

So "as a group they decide".
What a silly way to excuse his efforts.
So the List Committee makes decisions on players that none of them (outside of Jackson) have seen or have detailed stats on.
He also decides on whether the rookie draft has any value, since he's the only voice in List Committee to have seen them.
He, along with Hartley, also decides on the value of kids versus retreads since again he is the only voice to have seen one half of the equation, while Hartley has seen the other half.

Thank you for taking what I wrote and twisting it suit your argument

Am I excusing the mistakes? No but it seems people are big on pointing the finger at individuals rather than pointing the finger at the entire problem.

Did I write anywhere that the list committee doesn't have any data, see any vision, seen any of them play live? Of course they do, they get that info and the sit down and review, discuss, plan and make decisions.

Don't ever forget that FJ didn't want the trade for McMahon to happenas he had ear marked that pick for Selwood.  But he had no say, no control over it.

But I suppose most of us would think he got the 2nd round pick we had in that draft right, selected Rance for memory   

[big tone]

So "as a group they decide".
What a silly way to excuse his efforts.
So the List Committee makes decisions on players that none of them (outside of Jackson) have seen or have detailed stats on.
He also decides on whether the rookie draft has any value, since he's the only voice in List Committee to have seen them.
He, along with Hartley, also decides on the value of kids versus retreads since again he is the only voice to have seen one half of the equation, while Hartley has seen the other half.

Thank you for taking what I wrote and twisting it suit your argument

Am I excusing the mistakes? No but it seems people are big on pointing the finger at individuals rather than pointing the finger at the entire problem.

Did I write anywhere that the list committee doesn't have any data, see any vision, seen any of them play live? Of course they do, they get that info and the sit down and review, discuss, plan and make decisions.

Don't ever forget that FJ didn't want the trade for McMahon to happenas he had ear marked that pick for Selwood.  But he had no say, no control over it.

But I suppose most of us would think he got the 2nd round pick we had in that draft right, selected Rance for memory   

Rance was pick 18 and a priority pick. Not a second round pick. Can hardly give FJ a pat on the back for that

[WilliamPowell]

Rance was pick 18 and a priority pick. Not a second round pick. Can hardly give FJ a pat on the back for that

Did you read my entire post? Or just part of it?

I said "Am I excusing the mistakes? No but it seems people are big on pointing the finger at individuals rather than pointing the finger at the entire problem. "

I also raised a point by using the Rance selection as an example and that is there seems to be alot of people prepared to whack FJ for getting things wrong but conveniently ignoring the ones he has got right.

[blaisee]

Especially 2009 why he thought Griffiths was a better choice than Fyfe and why he believes Griffiths isn't getting a game ahead of Mcguane and a spent hack VFL star in "lockup" Edwards?

Do you seriously believe he has an input why Griffiths isn't getting a game? He is the recruiting manager not chairman of selectors. Once they are drafted it isn't his job to play them

I have to say I find if funny, he is given by the list management team which he ISNT a member of an outline of what the clubs wants the recruiters to focus on, that is outside picks 1 where the clubs policy has been since Dimma been there that we take the best available player, the types of player the club wants. He finds those types, shows the list people the options and as a group they decide on which one to go with. Then on draft day he calls out the number and name

After that point it is up to the club's coaches especially those in development to bring these kids on, that and of course the kid has to willing to work hard. Instead of pointing the finger constantly at our recruiting I believe we should be blow torching our development program more than anything

Unfortunately what you say Willie is very common especially at Richmond .

The structure should be set up the way Ross Lyon does it, be refuses to get involved and let the rm recruit all th players.

Even spud screwed us that year with beck and pettifer, he wanted Scott Thompson instead

[tigs2011]

So "as a group they decide".
What a silly way to excuse his efforts.
So the List Committee makes decisions on players that none of them (outside of Jackson) have seen or have detailed stats on.
He also decides on whether the rookie draft has any value, since he's the only voice in List Committee to have seen them.
He, along with Hartley, also decides on the value of kids versus retreads since again he is the only voice to have seen one half of the equation, while Hartley has seen the other half.

Thank you for taking what I wrote and twisting it suit your argument

Am I excusing the mistakes? No but it seems people are big on pointing the finger at individuals rather than pointing the finger at the entire problem.

Did I write anywhere that the list committee doesn't have any data, see any vision, seen any of them play live? Of course they do, they get that info and the sit down and review, discuss, plan and make decisions.

Don't ever forget that FJ didn't want the trade for McMahon to happenas he had ear marked that pick for Selwood.  But he had no say, no control over it.

But I suppose most of us would think he got the 2nd round pick we had in that draft right, selected Rance for memory   

Rance was pick 18 and a priority pick. Not a second round pick. Can hardly give FJ a pat on the back for that

Can't pat him on the back for 1st rounders despite probably no other club (including Geelong) gets every single first rounder right. Now we have to exclude priority picks from his successes.

[big tone]

Rance was pick 18 and a priority pick. Not a second round pick. Can hardly give FJ a pat on the back for that

Did you read my entire post? Or just part of it?

I said "Am I excusing the mistakes? No but it seems people are big on pointing the finger at individuals rather than pointing the finger at the entire problem. "

I also raised a point by using the Rance selection as an example and that is there seems to be alot of people prepared to whack FJ for getting things wrong but conveniently ignoring the ones he has got right.

I read your whole post and it was inaccurate. You said Rance was a second round draft pick. And he wasn't.  Maybe YOU should read your entire post again.
The discussion was that FJ haven't done well with second and third round draft selections. Which unless you are a complete deadbeat can see to be the case and trying to put Rance as a second round draft selection is just a mistake on your behalf.
Regardless of any of that, if you think you cannot point the finger at the head of recruiting for not getting recruiting right than you live in a different world than me.
Like saying you cannot blame DH for the way our side plays. Maybe we should just sack all the assistant coaches because it must be their faults.
Frustrates the F/$k out of me when all people want to do is make excuses for everyone at our club. The way this club has preformed over the last 30 years is a massive disgrace. People have to be accountable for their actions and the actions of the departments they are in control of. That's why they get paid the big bucks- because you have to put your reputation and BALLS on the line.

[1965]

Rance was pick 18 and a priority pick. Not a second round pick. Can hardly give FJ a pat on the back for that

Did you read my entire post? Or just part of it?

I said "Am I excusing the mistakes? No but it seems people are big on pointing the finger at individuals rather than pointing the finger at the entire problem. "

I also raised a point by using the Rance selection as an example and that is there seems to be alot of people prepared to whack FJ for getting things wrong but conveniently ignoring the ones he has got right.

I read your whole post and it was inaccurate. You said Rance was a second round draft pick. And he wasn't.  Maybe YOU should read your entire post again.
The discussion was that FJ haven't done well with second and third round draft selections. Which unless you are a complete deadbeat can see to be the case and trying to put Rance as a second round draft selection is just a mistake on your behalf.
Regardless of any of that, if you think you cannot point the finger at the head of recruiting for not getting recruiting right than you live in a different world than me.
Like saying you cannot blame DH for the way our side plays. Maybe we should just sack all the assistant coaches because it must be their faults. Frustrates the F/$k out of me when all people want to do is make excuses for everyone at our club. The way this club has preformed over the last 30 years is a massive disgrace. People have to be accountable for their actions and the actions of the departments they are in control of. That's why they get paid the big bucks- because you have to put your reputation and BALLS on the line.

That's what kept Sheedy at Essendon for 25 years

 

[tigs2011]

 

[the claw]

ive gotta say we are making excuses .
at the end of the day tyhe buck and resposibility stops with francis jackson.
05
jon- fail
hughes - fail
casserley - fail
06
riewoldt - pass
s edwards - for the pick fail.  eric mckenzie anyone, some will say pass so i will include him as a pass
connors - fail but at pick 58 it was more likely than not that this pick would fail. came with a poor reputation and it proved correct.
peterson - fail was a high risk.
collins - fail
07
cotchin - pass no brainer.
rance - at 18  fail imo if hes a pass its only just.  has too mant weaknesses in his game for a top 20 pick.
putt - fail
did not use pick 64.
08
vickery - atm hes a 50/50 propisition everyone knows where i stand with this bloke.
post - fail
hislop - a late mature  pick everyone knew hislop was a jackson favorite.
09
martin = pass. there was a top 4 and there was daylight.so a no brainer.
griffiths - sorry but to date hes a fail it may change it may not.he came with risk and again we took that risk with a valuable pick. carlisle black anyone or maybe a mid in bastinac.
astbury = to date a fail like griffiths being a tall he has some time on his side.
dea - pass was always going to be a project player imo hes coming along nicely. only gripe is where we took him. wanted another tall here had a list of 4.
taylor - fail.  another of those high risk picks that ultimately failed. on talent alone it was maybe worth the risk early 4th rnd pick 51.
webberley - fail we needed to target talls.
nason - fail should never have been drafted.
10  all of these guys are in just yr 3 so it is hard to call. you can only really judge em on strengths and weakness too early to call em on performance.
conca - pass but the argument has always been did we jump the gun. i still prefer heppell.
batchelor - 50/50 was widely assumed he would go later. has some real concerns in his game and imo has not properly established himself.
helbig - 50/50 not done a lot in the 2s which is a concern has some real good attributes but he needs to go up a level.
mcdonald - fail another risky pick that bit us on the arse.
derickx - fail
11
ellis - pass
elton -  who knows just too early.
arnot - bottom aged when taken still only 19 too early.
12
vlastuin - pass has proven to be a v/good pick to date.
mcintosh - too early to call.
mcbean - too early
mcdonough - too early.

thats the entire list of kids we have taken under jackson in the nd.  does not include  young psd and rookie picks.  which makes for even worse reading.
youngsters taken psd/rookie drafts  and i emphasise youngsters. does not include mature players who we cannot totally attribute to jackson.
white - fail
gourdis - fail
grimes - pass
o hanlon - 50/50 too early.

young rookie selections.

06
graham - fail
07
clingan- fail
08
collard - fail another high risk who came with baggage.
09
browne - fail.
gilligan - fail
10
hicks - fail
contin - fail
westhoff - fail
11
jakobi - fail
hislop - fail i inlclude him despite him being a mature pick  because he was a jackson pick
12
darrou - too early
verrier - 50/50  too early possibly gone
turner - too early
13
williams - too early

if hes had a say in taking mature players it makes for even worse reading.

[Ruanaidh]

Good synopsis Claw 

[Judge Roughneck]

S Edwards was not a fail 

09 draft is to on too early to judge.matter or Griff can still make it