Francis Jackson on TAC Cup Future Stars (Ch 9 today 1pm)

[RedanTiger]

Am I excusing the mistakes? No but it seems people are big on pointing the finger at individuals rather than pointing the finger at the entire problem.

Did I write anywhere that the list committee doesn't have any data, see any vision, seen any of them play live? Of course they do, they get that info and the sit down and review, discuss, plan and make decisions.

I am claiming LC members don't have the data to make informed decisions on players. They must rely on Jackson's opinion.
You are now claiming that List Committee members other than Jackson review data, vision and do live viewing of potential recruits.
The members of the List Committee are : Gale, Stahl, Richardson (Cameron), Hardwick, Jackson and Hartley as far as I know.
Do you really think any of them have the time to check Jackson's work to ensure his opinion about juniors is correct?
Jackson is the Recruiting Manager and so his opinion on kids is THE authority.
If that's not true and other LC members are re-doing his work and making junior recruiting decisions then he is redundant and should be replaced.

[mightytiges]

FJ hit the jackpot with Vlastuin at pick 9  .

[WilliamPowell]

The members of the List Committee are : Gale, Stahl, Richardson (Cameron), Hardwick, Jackson and Hartley as far as I know.

From what i've been told Gale & Stahl are not on the list managment committee

[tigs2011]

I'll just leave this here. 

[Bengal]

ive gotta say we are making excuses .
at the end of the day tyhe buck and resposibility stops with francis jackson.
05
jon- fail
hughes - fail
casserley - fail
06
riewoldt - pass
s edwards - for the pick fail.  eric mckenzie anyone, some will say pass so i will include him as a pass
connors - fail but at pick 58 it was more likely than not that this pick would fail. came with a poor reputation and it proved correct.
peterson - fail was a high risk.
collins - fail
07
cotchin - pass no brainer.
rance - at 18  fail imo if hes a pass its only just.  has too mant weaknesses in his game for a top 20 pick.
putt - fail
did not use pick 64.
08
vickery - atm hes a 50/50 propisition everyone knows where i stand with this bloke.
post - fail
hislop - a late mature  pick everyone knew hislop was a jackson favorite.
09
martin = pass. there was a top 4 and there was daylight.so a no brainer.
griffiths - sorry but to date hes a fail it may change it may not.he came with risk and again we took that risk with a valuable pick. carlisle black anyone or maybe a mid in bastinac.
astbury = to date a fail like griffiths being a tall he has some time on his side.
dea - pass was always going to be a project player imo hes coming along nicely. only gripe is where we took him. wanted another tall here had a list of 4.
taylor - fail.  another of those high risk picks that ultimately failed. on talent alone it was maybe worth the risk early 4th rnd pick 51.
webberley - fail we needed to target talls.
nason - fail should never have been drafted.
10  all of these guys are in just yr 3 so it is hard to call. you can only really judge em on strengths and weakness too early to call em on performance.
conca - pass but the argument has always been did we jump the gun. i still prefer heppell.
batchelor - 50/50 was widely assumed he would go later. has some real concerns in his game and imo has not properly established himself.
helbig - 50/50 not done a lot in the 2s which is a concern has some real good attributes but he needs to go up a level.
mcdonald - fail another risky pick that bit us on the arse.
derickx - fail
11
ellis - pass
elton -  who knows just too early.
arnot - bottom aged when taken still only 19 too early.
12
vlastuin - pass has proven to be a v/good pick to date.
mcintosh - too early to call.
mcbean - too early
mcdonough - too early.

thats the entire list of kids we have taken under jackson in the nd.  does not include  young psd and rookie picks.  which makes for even worse reading.
youngsters taken psd/rookie drafts  and i emphasise youngsters. does not include mature players who we cannot totally attribute to jackson.
white - fail
gourdis - fail
grimes - pass
o hanlon - 50/50 too early.

young rookie selections.

06
graham - fail
07
clingan- fail
08
collard - fail another high risk who came with baggage.
09
browne - fail.
gilligan - fail
10
hicks - fail
contin - fail
westhoff - fail
11
jakobi - fail
hislop - fail i inlclude him despite him being a mature pick  because he was a jackson pick
12
darrou - too early
verrier - 50/50  too early possibly gone
turner - too early
13
williams - too early

if hes had a say in taking mature players it makes for even worse reading.

Compare it to other teams and you will see we have done very well.  Its like you think every daraft pick we get should be the next Royce Hart or Jack Dyer

[Penelope]

The members of the List Committee are : Gale, Stahl, Richardson (Cameron), Hardwick, Jackson and Hartley as far as I know.

From what i've been told Gale & Stahl are not on the list managment committee

they were at one stage, according to a report from a fan night.

as head recruiter the buck stops with FJ on quality of players recruited.
The type of player recruited may be down to list management committee, but more specifically the coach.

[RedanTiger]

From what i've been told Gale & Stahl are not on the list managment committee

they were at one stage, according to a report from a fan night.

To be fair, I think Stahl would only be involved when it comes to the financial/contract side of list management and recruiting while Gale, similar to March, is a part of every committee whenever he wants but would not be involved in any nuts and bolts meetings but only the final decisions or choices. Is the term ex-officio?

[WilliamPowell]

From what i've been told Gale & Stahl are not on the list managment committee

they were at one stage, according to a report from a fan night.

To be fair, I think Stahl would only be involved when it comes to the financial/contract side of list management and recruiting while Gale, similar to March, is a part of every committee whenever he wants but would not be involved in any nuts and bolts meetings but only the final decisions or choices. Is the term ex-officio?

Yes that's the term. Common for a president to be ex-officio on all committees but not so for a CEO

I was at fan night where Hartley spoke and he was asked who was on the list management committee and I honestly don't recall him mentioning either Gale or Stahl being on the actual committee but did say that Gale has sat in on the odd meeting

[the claw]

ive gotta say we are making excuses .
at the end of the day tyhe buck and resposibility stops with francis jackson.
05
jon- fail
hughes - fail
casserley - fail
06
riewoldt - pass
s edwards - for the pick fail.  eric mckenzie anyone, some will say pass so i will include him as a pass
connors - fail but at pick 58 it was more likely than not that this pick would fail. came with a poor reputation and it proved correct.
peterson - fail was a high risk.
collins - fail
07
cotchin - pass no brainer.
rance - at 18  fail imo if hes a pass its only just.  has too mant weaknesses in his game for a top 20 pick.
putt - fail
did not use pick 64.
08
vickery - atm hes a 50/50 propisition everyone knows where i stand with this bloke.
post - fail
hislop - a late mature  pick everyone knew hislop was a jackson favorite.
09
martin = pass. there was a top 4 and there was daylight.so a no brainer.
griffiths - sorry but to date hes a fail it may change it may not.he came with risk and again we took that risk with a valuable pick. carlisle black anyone or maybe a mid in bastinac.
astbury = to date a fail like griffiths being a tall he has some time on his side.
dea - pass was always going to be a project player imo hes coming along nicely. only gripe is where we took him. wanted another tall here had a list of 4.
taylor - fail.  another of those high risk picks that ultimately failed. on talent alone it was maybe worth the risk early 4th rnd pick 51.
webberley - fail we needed to target talls.
nason - fail should never have been drafted.
10  all of these guys are in just yr 3 so it is hard to call. you can only really judge em on strengths and weakness too early to call em on performance.
conca - pass but the argument has always been did we jump the gun. i still prefer heppell.
batchelor - 50/50 was widely assumed he would go later. has some real concerns in his game and imo has not properly established himself.
helbig - 50/50 not done a lot in the 2s which is a concern has some real good attributes but he needs to go up a level.
mcdonald - fail another risky pick that bit us on the arse.
derickx - fail
11
ellis - pass
elton -  who knows just too early.
arnot - bottom aged when taken still only 19 too early.
12
vlastuin - pass has proven to be a v/good pick to date.
mcintosh - too early to call.
mcbean - too early
mcdonough - too early.

thats the entire list of kids we have taken under jackson in the nd.  does not include  young psd and rookie picks.  which makes for even worse reading.
youngsters taken psd/rookie drafts  and i emphasise youngsters. does not include mature players who we cannot totally attribute to jackson.
white - fail
gourdis - fail
grimes - pass
o hanlon - 50/50 too early.

young rookie selections.

06
graham - fail
07
clingan- fail
08
collard - fail another high risk who came with baggage.
09
browne - fail.
gilligan - fail
10
hicks - fail
contin - fail
westhoff - fail
11
jakobi - fail
hislop - fail i inlclude him despite him being a mature pick  because he was a jackson pick
12
darrou - too early
verrier - 50/50  too early possibly gone
turner - too early
13
williams - too early

if hes had a say in taking mature players it makes for even worse reading.

Compare it to other teams and you will see we have done very well.  Its like you think every daraft pick we get should be the next Royce Hart or Jack Dyer

compared to other teams hes been lousy.
the success rate for all nd picks is around 60% you do the maths where is jacksons at.
no i expect 1st rounders to be at the very least a good player but aim foe very/good to elite.
2nd rounders for us picks mainly inside 30 i expect good to very good players.
3rd rounders you are looking for something decent.
after that with kids you are looking at about a 1 in 5/  6 chance  of them becoming decent. its one reason  why ive advocated so hard for us to look at more state league players with later nd psd and rookie picks.
get your facts straight the next time you try and atribute statements to me,

its simple jackson is an upgrade on beck and miller but we should be aiming for better. his overall record is not great.

[Tigeritis™©®]

ive gotta say we are making excuses .
at the end of the day tyhe buck and resposibility stops with francis jackson.
05
jon- fail
hughes - fail
casserley - fail
06
riewoldt - pass
s edwards - for the pick fail.  eric mckenzie anyone, some will say pass so i will include him as a pass
connors - fail but at pick 58 it was more likely than not that this pick would fail. came with a poor reputation and it proved correct.
peterson - fail was a high risk.
collins - fail
07
cotchin - pass no brainer.
rance - at 18  fail imo if hes a pass its only just.  has too mant weaknesses in his game for a top 20 pick.
putt - fail
did not use pick 64.
08
vickery - atm hes a 50/50 propisition everyone knows where i stand with this bloke.
post - fail
hislop - a late mature  pick everyone knew hislop was a jackson favorite.
09
martin = pass. there was a top 4 and there was daylight.so a no brainer.
griffiths - sorry but to date hes a fail it may change it may not.he came with risk and again we took that risk with a valuable pick. carlisle black anyone or maybe a mid in bastinac.
astbury = to date a fail like griffiths being a tall he has some time on his side.
dea - pass was always going to be a project player imo hes coming along nicely. only gripe is where we took him. wanted another tall here had a list of 4.
taylor - fail.  another of those high risk picks that ultimately failed. on talent alone it was maybe worth the risk early 4th rnd pick 51.
webberley - fail we needed to target talls.
nason - fail should never have been drafted.
10  all of these guys are in just yr 3 so it is hard to call. you can only really judge em on strengths and weakness too early to call em on performance.
conca - pass but the argument has always been did we jump the gun. i still prefer heppell.
batchelor - 50/50 was widely assumed he would go later. has some real concerns in his game and imo has not properly established himself.
helbig - 50/50 not done a lot in the 2s which is a concern has some real good attributes but he needs to go up a level.
mcdonald - fail another risky pick that bit us on the arse.
derickx - fail
11
ellis - pass
elton -  who knows just too early.
arnot - bottom aged when taken still only 19 too early.
12
vlastuin - pass has proven to be a v/good pick to date.
mcintosh - too early to call.
mcbean - too early
mcdonough - too early.

thats the entire list of kids we have taken under jackson in the nd.  does not include  young psd and rookie picks.  which makes for even worse reading.
youngsters taken psd/rookie drafts  and i emphasise youngsters. does not include mature players who we cannot totally attribute to jackson.
white - fail
gourdis - fail
grimes - pass
o hanlon - 50/50 too early.

young rookie selections.

06
graham - fail
07
clingan- fail
08
collard - fail another high risk who came with baggage.
09
browne - fail.
gilligan - fail
10
hicks - fail
contin - fail
westhoff - fail
11
jakobi - fail
hislop - fail i inlclude him despite him being a mature pick  because he was a jackson pick
12
darrou - too early
verrier - 50/50  too early possibly gone
turner - too early
13
williams - too early

if hes had a say in taking mature players it makes for even worse reading.

Compare it to other teams and you will see we have done very well.  Its like you think every daraft pick we get should be the next Royce Hart or Jack Dyer

compared to other teams hes been lousy.
the success rate for all nd picks is around 60% you do the maths where is jacksons at.
no i expect 1st rounders to be at the very least a good player but aim foe very/good to elite.
2nd rounders for us picks mainly inside 30 i expect good to very good players.
3rd rounders you are looking for something decent.
after that with kids you are looking at about a 1 in 5/  6 chance  of them becoming decent. its one reason  why ive advocated so hard for us to look at more state league players with later nd psd and rookie picks.
get your facts straight the next time you try and atribute statements to me,

its simple jackson is an upgrade on beck and miller but we should be aiming for better. his overall record is not great.

I agree 100% with that.
Buy the best in the business.

[tigs2011]

No way 60% of draft picks are a pass. Not when you class guys like Edwards/Rance as fails.

You'd be lucky to get 60% of top 10's as passes.

2006 7/10 or 11/20
2007 7/10 or 13/20
2008 7/10 (Vickery is apparently a fail) or 10/20 (weird in a strong draft)
2009 4/10 or 9/20
2010 7/10 or 12/20

Can't be bothered going past pick 20 because the strike rate gets worse and worse. 2007 is the only one going above 60% with 2010 going at exactly 60% but likely to get some fails over a couple of years. This is ONLY really first rounders. 55/100. 56 including Vickery (who I'd have given a pass to. Yet we have nailed all our first rounders. Strange. 

[Penelope]

From what i've been told Gale & Stahl are not on the list managment committee

they were at one stage, according to a report from a fan night.

To be fair, I think Stahl would only be involved when it comes to the financial/contract side of list management and recruiting while Gale, similar to March, is a part of every committee whenever he wants but would not be involved in any nuts and bolts meetings but only the final decisions or choices. Is the term ex-officio?

Yes that's the term. Common for a president to be ex-officio on all committees but not so for a CEO

I was at fan night where Hartley spoke and he was asked who was on the list management committee and I honestly don't recall him mentioning either Gale or Stahl being on the actual committee but did say that Gale has sat in on the odd meeting

* As for roles within the footy department - Cameron is the general manager of football so his role is to manage all the various arms of the footy dept - coaches, recruiting, list management, rehab, strength and conditioning. I think they were the 5 areas. The rehab and strength and conditioning areas have been split between two people and Matt Hornsby oversees both areas. The list management committee is made up of Cameron, Jackson, Hartley, Hardwick, Gale and Stahl (to keep an eye on finances). Dimma has a fair bit of input in trades but very little in draft selections. Cameron said they are organising the finances for the next year at the moment.

although it is a bit irrelevant because logic says that neither would have a great deal of input into actual players selected (it reportedly was gale that said to pull the trigger on recruiting Taylor, though), nor does it detract from FJ being the head of recruiting, so the buck stops with him.

[WilliamPowell]

Thanks al,

that's interesting because as I said I was at a supporters function late last year (2012) and Hartley spoke and when asked who was on the committee he didn't mention Gale or Stahl

Wonder if it's changed since 2011 or hartle just didn't mention everyone   

[blaisee]

I stopped reading at Shane Edwards fail

Claw, do you actually watch any games ?

Seriously?

He is a jet !

[tigs2011]

I stopped reading at Shane Edwards fail

Claw, do you actually watch any games ?

Seriously?

He is a jet !

Should have stopped reading at 2005. FJ in this interview said he started in 2006.