How did you rate our 2013 season?

[Yeahright]

The question isn't who do we cut, it was how do we upgrade on all of them in one go. Unless we trade these hacks for decent players or picks, which won't happen because they're hacks

[the claw]

On one hand you tell us that the deeper you go into the draft, the harder it becomes to get quality, which is pretty obvious really, and that ii trading you have to give up quality to get quality, which again is correct.

Then, you turn around and say you want to get rid of 10 of the list ( aprox 1/4).

so how do you envisage replacing 10 blokes with upgrades in one hit?, considering these two points of yours?
surely you cant be expecting us to get 5 or 6 free agents?

I cracked up when he said to trade Vickers for pick 1 after he has put the boots into him all year

geez so now if you dont rate a player that player musnt have any sort of currency or ability. thats a very limited and blinkered point of view.if clubs had that view there would never ever be a trade completed. i wonder which one of us is being a tad silly and who should  be having a giggle.
with that way of thinking im wondering how the tambling deal got done. pick 27 for a bloke who had done nothing was achieved. i suppose with your logic we may as well have not asked at all and just delisted him.

i may criticise vickery and rightly so. he lives off the potential tag still.
 im not silly enough to say he has no talent or no possible upside. ive never ever called for him to be cut from the list. ive done nothing but point out flaws in areas of his game and people like you get up in arms about it. but hey why would i expect you to acknowledge that your only here to point score if you can. its like dont you dare criticise our players if you do im going to try and cut you down.
 my reckoning has never been more than, vickery  wont become the player you and most others expect him to become. as such to me   hes tradeable. we should trade him if possible before clubs discover what his true worth is. and some how you translate that to he has no value and no possible upside.unbelievable.

gws have said they want good experienced players with upside. they need ruckmen im sure vickery at 23, with  80 games would be closely looked at by them.
he may not get pick 1 but hey why not ask. rather than being so literal heres one for ya how about vickery for adams straight swap. that would be a win win imo. id still start by asking for pick 1 though.
another option would be a straight swap with brisbane for longer. we get a player who will definately be able to play 1st ruck and bring mcbean into our team  and they get a player capable of complimenting leuenberger as a for/ruck. that is if they rate vickery at all.

just one question but i dont think you will answer regardless.  my opinion on where vickery is at aside what do you think vickery will fetch on the open market.  if we put him up for trade.

[Hellenic Tiger]

How we handle the offseason and the draft may be more critical to us making the 8. I'll reserve my judgement till after free agency, trade week and the November ND.

[the claw]

The question isn't who do we cut, it was how do we upgrade on all of them in one go. Unless we trade these hacks for decent players or picks, which won't happen because they're hacks

are you serious. its not about upgrading immediately. besides you said it we cut hacks and try someone else can we do worse.your in the wrong caper mate if you want guaranntees.
so you want to turn a debate about the nd into a debate about upgrades. is any kid we draft ever really an upgrade no they are taken on potential. no draft trade period is totally about upgrades its mostly about kids, long term development  potential and addressing holes in the list.. are you asking me to use all our nd picks on mature players because you want guaranteed upgrades. you do realise how silly and unrealistic  that is.

sheesh to upgrade on any player you first have to cut em.    of course its about who we cut and who how  we replace em.
so if i dont name whos to be cut  who do you want me to upgrade on exactly. 

a question??  was vlastuin mcintosh mcdonough and mcbean expected to be immediate upgrades when we drafted them or were they to be long term development prospects who may or may not make it. are you suggesting we dont participate in the nd at all because any pick we take may  not make it and may not  become an  upgrade. lol.

 any nd  pick we use  is based on potential so lets not use em.are you really saying/asking me   not look to the long term at all with some picks, because they are based on potential and  may not become upgrades. bloody hell that is some ask..

if you think the nd is about now your crazy. what you are asking is i replace 8 10 players with mature players only.  you know as well as i thats not how it works.
do you want to be realistic and reasonable here or just plain stupid.


i also ask are you saying we cant draft a kid in the nd with more potential than nahas mcguane, derickx,  tuckys retired he frees up a spot anyway.
pick 11  = tuck is that an upgrade. potentially yes
pick 28 mcguane  is that an upgrade potentially it should be
pick 46 nahas  is that an upgrade can we pick a worse skilled player
pick 64 derickx.  is that an upgrade 2 games in 3 yrs bloody hell.  id use those 4 nd  picks every day of the week.they should be used but will they amount to anything are they definate upgrades.

jolly would be an upgrade over any of the players ive mentioned theres a psd pick rookie pick or very late nd pick.
surely if we go into free agency we are targeting an upgrade.
if we trade surely we trade to fix a problem. would  lycett for conca address a need and be an upgrade on stephenson and derickx?

again i ask what did all of nahas, mcguane, derickx, petterd lonergan, stephenson, dea batchelor, griffiths ohanlon s edwards  verrier darrou  contribute to our season. whats that stuff all and you are saying we should not try to replace em. if we cant do better we will be mired mid table for ever and a day.

with so many ordinary underperformers on the list im gobsmacked we won 15 games.

[Yeahright]

Can you please quote me when I said immediate? Fact is you'd be lucky to get upgrade all of 6 players let alone 10

[the claw]

Can you please quote me when I said immediate? Fact is you'd be lucky to get upgrade all of 6 players let alone 10

oh dear its like pulling teeth and not worth the hassle.

lets just agree to disagree.

my stance is we can do no worse and have every chance with picks 11 28 46 and 64 of upgrading   on 11  tuck retired, 28 mcguane, 46 nahas, and 64 derickx. we surely couldnt draft less skilled players.

my stance is i reckon we could easily cover  2 others  like dea batchelor king lonergan stephenson s edwards ohanlon petterd darrou etc  etc in free agency and thru trades.

my stance is we lose nothing by cutting unskilled rookies like lonergan petterd verrier  and replacing them with mature players from state leagues, or kids  who actually  meet the required skill standards to play at the level.
for me its simple
use 4 nd picks.
 take a need in f/a if possible,
trade for a need  if possible 
that means cutting up to 6 from the list proper.   we can cut 6 and and not lose a thing with every chance of gaining.
 cut 3 or rookies who have shocking skills and replace em with blokes who have the minimum skill requirements to play at the level

we obviously disagree and like i said we will just have to agree to disagree.  thats fine im happy with my opinion on the matter and will continue at every opportunity  to voice it.
i at least have an opinion on what should be done and voice it. unlike most on here who only criticise or try to belittle  others for having an  opinion.

it would be interesting to find out just how many nd picks you think we should use. how many rookies we cut and if we should try for a free agent and trade for a need.

at the end of the day duds are duds making an attempt to get better players and failing is better than doing nothing. just my opinion.

[Penelope]

it is like pulling teeth isnt it claw?

lets keep it concise
you cut 10 players in one hit, how do we upgrade them in one go?

simple question, how about a simple answer?