Author Topic: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace  (Read 5230 times)

Offline Andyy

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2013, 05:42:11 PM »
I noticed the plural but I hope he kicks more than 2 goals. Question is, who gets dropped out of Jack, Vickery (key forwards) and Hampson (alleged pinch-hitter-to-be). Or are we going with 4 talls? lol

Because McBean will be too skinny to ruck and Vickery hasn't shown enough in that department although my money is on Hampson.

Online Willy

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2013, 05:45:01 PM »
Bean will replace Magaune/ A. Edwards. He will not be required to ruck or crash packs. Just needs to use his gazelle-like pace and majestic skills to jag sausages on the oppo's third best defender. Will be a nightmare for oppo' coaches.. :shh

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2013, 05:50:34 PM »
I noticed the plural but I hope he kicks more than 2 goals. Question is, who gets dropped out of Jack, Vickery (key forwards) and Hampson (alleged pinch-hitter-to-be). Or are we going with 4 talls? lol

Because McBean will be too skinny to ruck and Vickery hasn't shown enough in that department although my money is on Hampson.

HF  X. Vickery. X
FF. Mcbean.  Riewoldt. X

Ruck. Maric / Hampson

I don't think its "crazy tall" ? If they want the extra small hampson vfl

In the past have we played maric / orren + jack/Vickery. With mcgaune or a Edwards. ?

The trend seems to be with the better sides playing two rucks and subbing on off. Hawthorn has shown a number of kpp in the same 22 can work.

Mcbean plays like a hff

Offline Diocletian

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2013, 07:30:03 PM »
A.Edwards is shorter than most of our midfield - hell, even Morris is a centimetre taller. He's more like a less mobile, more orthodox Mitch Morton - who, funnily enough, is also taller than Edwards.
"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good...."

- Thomas Sowell


FJ is the only one that makes sense.

tony_montana

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2013, 07:57:19 PM »
true but he does play much taller

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2013, 08:03:59 PM »
Aaron Edwards is short yet plays tall- hence 100 goals for frankston in the vfl 2006

And we have been using him as a key forward / 3rd tall in rotation with mcgane

I don't see why mcbean (or Griffiths, Elton) can structurally directly replace them
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 09:54:47 PM by Bentleigh-esque »

the claw

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2013, 08:40:34 PM »
its not currently best 22 but its the future and id be giving it every opportunity to work.
b/ morris - chaplin - grimes.
hb/ mcintosh - rance - dea

c/  ellis - martin - deledio/pick12 acres
r/ maric - vlastuin - cotchin.

h/f  knights - astbury/vickery/elton - pick 12 acres  :pray/deledio/ohanlon
f/  hampson - riewoldt - mcdonough.

int/ conca - foley - jackson - helbig/arnot.

emg/   houli- grigg- newman- edwards- edwards - griffiths.

the claw

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2013, 09:25:40 PM »
Conca-Cotchin.-Deledio-Ellis-Martin-Morris-Vlastuin

Grimes-Maric-McBean-Rance-Riewoldt-Vickery

Surely,Ramps, and co... at least half the building blocks are in place? We need a good run with injury, good coaching and team selection, and the other spots to be filled by people who can compliment the core of the team with competent footy (ie. Not nahas mcgaune types)

We might not win a flag in next five yeats...  yet surely we should be regularly top 8?  >:(

regularly top 8 like nought you mean?

Its about flags bents and while yes we have a good core we have limited class in our forward half and if jack goes down we are royally screwed.


We need to add 1 or 2 really classy players a year, while replacing average with average and we'll be competing for top 4 in 2 or 3 years.  I'm not sure our recruiting and player development is up to it.  Last year Vlastun and a potential in McBean before that Ellis.  Its not a great hit rate.  Geelong had one super year with about 6 players that made their great team.  I forget the year.
i agree in the main with your posts in this thread .  i think it important though if we have a player who is clearly top 22 and clearly lacks in some basic areas of the game that regularly comes back to bite, you must be looking to upgrade. in a lot of cases it isnt a hard thing to do. you cant be looking for a like for like. the key is to raise the overall standard of the list or a particular area of the list with every singe transaction that we do.

imo we need to find at a minimum 3 to 4  classy thru good players every yr just to maintain the list at a high level. and we need to do it until we rach a point where we actually have very good depth and we can trade our players out for quality picks and players.

getting first rounders right is imperative every yr and kudos to the club over the last 3 or so yrs they have done that. buuuuttt we just have to start getting one of the 2nd or 3rd round selections right. we do need to target well rounded mature players especially in trades. ffs petterd grigg lonergan orren king nahas hampson miller.etc etc etc etc etc etc it goes on and on.  i dont have a problem in getting these players to serve a purpose, as the list improves some of the reasons to take these types will disappear. but we just have to be always looking for better.

also if lets say theoretically  every club turns over 5 players on ave  every yr from the list proper,  over a 8 yr period you will theoreticlly  turn over your entire list or there abouts. i cant see any club growing or improving enough to ever be a contender if they are only finding 1 or 2 decent players a yr. especially if they are coming from a low base.

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2013, 09:58:10 PM »


claws thoughts in regards to tall strucuce circa 2009:

Quote

agree very silly statement from jackson. and its worse than you say. moore is not a kp mcguane and graham are not up to afl standard and browne is a rookie who has a long long way to go.

post while taken to play kpf is more likely a kpd.  vickery sheepoohought he was a ruckman what jackson is doing lumping him in as a permanent forward is bewildering.

ive done this before and will do it again. look at the structure of the majority of sides on any given game day.
it usually goes

b/           *****       genuine big bodied kpd.      *****
hb/        *****          genuine big bodied  kd.      third tall
c/          *****               *****                     *****
hf/         ******        genuine marking chf         *****
f/          *****             genuine ff                     third tall
r/          ruckman        ******                         ******
int        ruckman         *****   *****      possibly tall running  utility       


yep most clubs will take 8 talls into games each week and more if you have a tall like corey who plays as a mid but structurally 8 is normally it.

in moving forward we dont have enough for decent structure  it is a disgrace.

the ideal is cover for each position so you would have 6 tall defenders 4 of which are capable of playing kp and holding their own. ditto for tall forwards and 4 ruckmen.  of course you will have roughly 10 at or close to afl standard the rest should be in various stages of development.
it also goes to say if you need 16 who you are reasonably sure can play at afl level and will become afl standard you will have to load up with surplus talls we all know every pick we take wont make it the fail rate for clubs is somewhere between 30 and 40 percent.

the amount of work that has to be done in this area is staggering.

having said this in no way should we waste pick 3 by targeting a tall with it who is not best available.

*note, pre-sub rule.

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2013, 10:12:29 PM »
Noted

the claw

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2013, 01:11:30 PM »
cant be accused of being inconsistent.
its the kind of structure that has constantly won premierships over the last god knows how many yrs. its not hard to look at what good sides have done well and learn from them.

have always said if you need 8 talls  on game day you need another 8 in the twos mimicking what you do.
 you need about 10 12 who are capable of playing at the level when form and injury hits in each area. one of our problems atm is we have just  5 or 6 who perform consistently at the required level.
16 talls on your list has always been a minimum for me.im inclined to go with a project ruck or key forward as well.

its the same for mids you go with on average 9 to 10  genuine mids every week. a few may perform flanking roles but they are mids first and formost. look at us conca,cotchin,ellie,foley, grigg,jackson,martin, vlastuin and tuck. to me its common sense you try to mirror this in the twos. its certainly something we have failed to do at coburg.

it leaves 4 or 5  places in your team  for specialist roles shutdown  med defender like morris sml defender houli newman a sml forward medium forwards edwards king ohanlon  etc  mirror this and you need about 8 of these types all up.

on forwards hawthorn went with 2 ruckmen and 3 tall forwards. but they were in the enviable position of having two of those talls franklin and gunston who move like medium sized flankers.
imo the tall player type we lack is a gunston.  we have astbury jack vickery, elton, mcbean hampson griffiths all 195cm or more the type we dont have is gunston,  for me a player like jon marsh would compliment our forward structure enormously if we were to take him in the nd. 191cm super quick and versatile. its what we are screaming out for.

Offline Phil Mrakov

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2013, 02:14:27 PM »
The wallet is correct
hhhaaarrgghhh hhhhaaarrggghhh hhhhaaaarrrggghh
HHAAARRRGGGHHHH HHHHAAARRRGGGHHHH HHHHHAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH

Gigantor

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2013, 02:25:57 PM »
Mrakov whats with the negativity of late?
in 2013 we made the finals for the first time since the wheel was invented
we achieved record membership
we are DEBT FREE
punt road oval is looking like a bowling green
we signed up all our stars
we had smooth transition of power at the club
and a CEO who seems the ants pants.

Now cheer up Mr mrakov and get with the plan :cheers

Offline Phil Mrakov

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2013, 02:31:03 PM »
Mrakov whats with the negativity of late?
in 2013 we made the finals for the first time since the wheel was invented
we achieved record membership
we are DEBT FREE
punt road oval is looking like a bowling green
we signed up all our stars
we had smooth transition of power at the club
and a CEO who seems the ants pants.

Now cheer up Mr mrakov and get with the plan :cheers

Just saying, top 4 is a must with this really easy draw. I'd even say top 2 should be very achievable
hhhaaarrgghhh hhhhaaarrggghhh hhhhaaaarrrggghh
HHAAARRRGGGHHHH HHHHAAARRRGGGHHHH HHHHHAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH

Gigantor

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Re: Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2013, 02:32:34 PM »
much better..Ta