The Hardwick Rebuild Is Dead Long Live the Next Rebuild

[Rampstar]

Its like a twilight zone for players after their 3rd year. Thats why players like Deledio are underrated IMHO.

[Hellenic Tiger]

Dea. Bachelor. Helbig. Elton. Arnot. And the 2012 draft have not really been given a shot at it ...

dea batchelor and helbig are in their 4th and 5th yrs respectively. make no mistake they have to be in the gun. batchelor in particular has weaknesses that just smack ya in the facehe imo hasnt got the tools to play consistently well at afl level. dea and helbig despite everything have had heaps of time to at the very least establish that they belong and are yet to do so.

elton and arnot are babies  especially elton being a tall. the simple fact is there isnt one young  nd pick taken after the first rnd since 2005 to now that has become a good consistent player for us.
our inability to find just 4 or 5 players here is killing us and jackson should be made accountable for it.

Batchelor is one of many who just gets worse when he comes to the club. His best games were the first ones he played for the club.  Lloyd should get out now because that's as good as it will get for him here.

Martin's best games were in his first 2 years. Funny if it wasn't true 

If you saw Ablett play off half back you'd think WTF.
Not Dimma who has the foresight of playing him everywhere but where his strength lies and his best footy has been played.

That's why we haven't seen a standout game from him since lets say 2012.
Anyone remember the game against North by Cotch and Dusty in 2011.
These guys games  and development are getting sacrificed so Titch can be at centre bounces instead so we can see how long into his 8 year career will it take for him to win a clean centre break and use the ball properly with skill and precision.

[WA Tiger]

We can't keep going through this rebuild crap, by the time we do it again Martin, Cotch, Lids, Jack will be retiring.

[Hard Roar Tiger]

It's a great thread 
Attack a persons weakness by trolling your own football club. About as courageous as Mcaffers effort on Cotchin 
Mind you Ramps is a master at attacking the exposes nerve

[tigs2011]

Its like a twilight zone for players after their 3rd year. Thats why players like Deledio are underrated IMHO.

Lids is a testament to himself that he's got to where he is in this craphole

[tigs2011]

Dea. Bachelor. Helbig. Elton. Arnot. And the 2012 draft have not really been given a shot at it ...

dea batchelor and helbig are in their 4th and 5th yrs respectively. make no mistake they have to be in the gun. batchelor in particular has weaknesses that just smack ya in the facehe imo hasnt got the tools to play consistently well at afl level. dea and helbig despite everything have had heaps of time to at the very least establish that they belong and are yet to do so.

elton and arnot are babies  especially elton being a tall. the simple fact is there isnt one young  nd pick taken after the first rnd since 2005 to now that has become a good consistent player for us.
our inability to find just 4 or 5 players here is killing us and jackson should be made accountable for it.

Batchelor is one of many who just gets worse when he comes to the club. His best games were the first ones he played for the club.  Lloyd should get out now because that's as good as it will get for him here.

Martin's best games were in his first 2 years. Funny if it wasn't true 

If you saw Ablett play off half back you'd think WTF.
Not Dimma who has the foresight of playing him everywhere but where his strength lies and his best footy has been played.

That's why we haven't seen a standout game from him since lets say 2012.
Anyone remember the game against North by Cotch and Dusty in 2011.
These guys games  and development are getting sacrificed so Titch can be at centre bounces instead so we can see how long into his 8 year career will it take for him to win a clean centre break and use the ball properly with skill and precision.

Everyone needs to be a plodder. No stars allowed.

[Hellenic Tiger]

Dea. Bachelor. Helbig. Elton. Arnot. And the 2012 draft have not really been given a shot at it ...

dea batchelor and helbig are in their 4th and 5th yrs respectively. make no mistake they have to be in the gun. batchelor in particular has weaknesses that just smack ya in the facehe imo hasnt got the tools to play consistently well at afl level. dea and helbig despite everything have had heaps of time to at the very least establish that they belong and are yet to do so.

elton and arnot are babies  especially elton being a tall. the simple fact is there isnt one young  nd pick taken after the first rnd since 2005 to now that has become a good consistent player for us.
our inability to find just 4 or 5 players here is killing us and jackson should be made accountable for it.

Batchelor is one of many who just gets worse when he comes to the club. His best games were the first ones he played for the club.  Lloyd should get out now because that's as good as it will get for him here.

Martin's best games were in his first 2 years. Funny if it wasn't true 

If you saw Ablett play off half back you'd think WTF.
Not Dimma who has the foresight of playing him everywhere but where his strength lies and his best footy has been played.

That's why we haven't seen a standout game from him since lets say 2012.
Anyone remember the game against North by Cotch and Dusty in 2011.
These guys games  and development are getting sacrificed so Titch can be at centre bounces instead so we can see how long into his 8 year career will it take for him to win a clean centre break and use the ball properly with skill and precision.

Everyone needs to be a plodder. No stars allowed.

Yep its called an even spread.

[tigs2011]

Dea. Bachelor. Helbig. Elton. Arnot. And the 2012 draft have not really been given a shot at it ...

dea batchelor and helbig are in their 4th and 5th yrs respectively. make no mistake they have to be in the gun. batchelor in particular has weaknesses that just smack ya in the facehe imo hasnt got the tools to play consistently well at afl level. dea and helbig despite everything have had heaps of time to at the very least establish that they belong and are yet to do so.

elton and arnot are babies  especially elton being a tall. the simple fact is there isnt one young  nd pick taken after the first rnd since 2005 to now that has become a good consistent player for us.
our inability to find just 4 or 5 players here is killing us and jackson should be made accountable for it.

Batchelor is one of many who just gets worse when he comes to the club. His best games were the first ones he played for the club.  Lloyd should get out now because that's as good as it will get for him here.

Martin's best games were in his first 2 years. Funny if it wasn't true 

If you saw Ablett play off half back you'd think WTF.
Not Dimma who has the foresight of playing him everywhere but where his strength lies and his best footy has been played.

That's why we haven't seen a standout game from him since lets say 2012.
Anyone remember the game against North by Cotch and Dusty in 2011.
These guys games  and development are getting sacrificed so Titch can be at centre bounces instead so we can see how long into his 8 year career will it take for him to win a clean centre break and use the ball properly with skill and precision.

Everyone needs to be a plodder. No stars allowed.

Yep its called an even spread.

I reckon we've nailed an even spread of poo all over the sandwich tbh. About the only thing we've achieved in 30 years but we got there. 

[Hellenic Tiger]

Dea. Bachelor. Helbig. Elton. Arnot. And the 2012 draft have not really been given a shot at it ...

dea batchelor and helbig are in their 4th and 5th yrs respectively. make no mistake they have to be in the gun. batchelor in particular has weaknesses that just smack ya in the facehe imo hasnt got the tools to play consistently well at afl level. dea and helbig despite everything have had heaps of time to at the very least establish that they belong and are yet to do so.

elton and arnot are babies  especially elton being a tall. the simple fact is there isnt one young  nd pick taken after the first rnd since 2005 to now that has become a good consistent player for us.
our inability to find just 4 or 5 players here is killing us and jackson should be made accountable for it.

Batchelor is one of many who just gets worse when he comes to the club. His best games were the first ones he played for the club.  Lloyd should get out now because that's as good as it will get for him here.

Martin's best games were in his first 2 years. Funny if it wasn't true 

If you saw Ablett play off half back you'd think WTF.
Not Dimma who has the foresight of playing him everywhere but where his strength lies and his best footy has been played.

That's why we haven't seen a standout game from him since lets say 2012.
Anyone remember the game against North by Cotch and Dusty in 2011.
These guys games  and development are getting sacrificed so Titch can be at centre bounces instead so we can see how long into his 8 year career will it take for him to win a clean centre break and use the ball properly with skill and precision.

Everyone needs to be a plodder. No stars allowed.

Yep its called an even spread.

I reckon we've nailed an even spread of poo all over the sandwich tbh. About the only thing we've achieved in 30 years but we got there. 

Only thing left is to keep piling on the skata, man v food style.

[tony_montana]

I don't think we need a "rebuild" as such.

The club did the right thing in bringing in players like Houli, Grigg, Chaplin in a moneyball scenario bc they were upgrades on what we had, the problem is to continue improving we need(ed) to upgrade those types and we don't. I don't have a problem right at this stage of our evolution in having the likes of Pettard, Grigg, Houli on the list as backup, and in a year add Chaplin to that list too. Players like McDonough, Lennon, Helbig, Arnott, Gordon, Elton, Miles, Lloyd need to be given a red hot and fair chance NOW to see if they will be some of those upgrades. If not at least we find out and we can then either move them on first or move on the likes of Pettard, Grigg etc if the aforementioned show something.. Our problem has been that Dimma continues to play these guys who are reasonable as depth players but that have obvious flaws, ahead of the young guys who then become disenchanted and couldn't give a flying stuff. (imo)

This has to stop and has to stop now. Dimma can still salvage this and move fwd with our list and his career but he needs to make the calls now otherwise he will go down with the ship bc players like Grigg, Chaplin,  Edwards, pettard, Newman & Vickery will ultimately let him down. Simply not up to it.

[eliminator]

Risks need to be taken. Need to test out and give experience to younger players. There was no reason for Arnot to be the sub. If Grigg was not going to be dropped he should have been the sub. Newman should not be played week in week out. McDonough should be given a run at the senior level to prove himself. Helbig, Lloyd, Miles if he is elevated and Lennon should all be given a good spell in the seniors. I would rather see the club try youth than sticking to the current formula which isn't working.

[tony_montana]

That's what we all want and should expect elim. Lets find out how good our drafting has been by playing these young untried guys instead of the same ol same ol who are continually found lacking when the heat is on

[tigs2011]

I don't think we need a "rebuild" as such.

The club did the right thing in bringing in players like Houli, Grigg, Chaplin in a moneyball scenario bc they were upgrades on what we had, the problem is to continue improving we need(ed) to upgrade those types and we don't. I don't have a problem right at this stage of our evolution in having the likes of Pettard, Grigg, Houli on the list as backup, and in a year add Chaplin to that list too. Players like McDonough, Lennon, Helbig, Arnott, Gordon, Elton, Miles, Lloyd need to be given a red hot and fair chance NOW to see if they will be some of those upgrades. If not at least we find out and we can then either move them on first or move on the likes of Pettard, Grigg etc if the aforementioned show something.. Our problem has been that Dimma continues to play these guys who are reasonable as depth players but that have obvious flaws, ahead of the young guys who then become disenchanted and couldn't give a flying stuff. (imo)

This has to stop and has to stop now. Dimma can still salvage this and move fwd with our list and his career but he needs to make the calls now otherwise he will go down with the ship bc players like Grigg, Chaplin,  Edwards, pettard, Newman & Vickery will ultimately let him down. Simply not up to it.

agreed. No need to rebuild. We have a lot out. But we need to keep turning more guys over. Find out if Helbig can play. Trade Batch and Grigg. Someone else will be in our position of 2010 and need to upgrade. E.g. Melbourne.

[Judge Roughneck]

In regards to claws point

Players taken in the national draft are as follows. In regards to my point:  we are apparently writing these types off - but have they been given six to eighth game in the favoured position to prove themselfs?


09:  griffiths Astbury. Dea. Grimes
10: bachelor. Helbig.
11:  Elton. Arnot. Ohanlon. 
12:  mcintosh. McBean.  Mcdonuts. Williams.
13:  Gordon. Llyod. Bannfield. Thomas.

[Diocletian]

Like Malthouse said years ago - you're always rebuilding, though I'd expand on that further by saying good clubs don't rebuild, they just  renovate regularly.