Author Topic: Hardwick's post-match media conference  (Read 4075 times)

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2014, 09:50:57 PM »
Hardwick has got it so wrong lately.

A side should always be rebuilding even when its on top. Hawthorn are always blooding youngsters every year despite winning the premiership as to Geelong.

So when he says we are not going to rebuild all I can do is :facepalm
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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2014, 09:54:57 PM »
History is repeating the club is the same the coaches are different. :help

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2014, 10:33:24 AM »
I want to see him apologise to the fans and break down and cry like a baby

Offline Stripes

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2014, 11:14:38 AM »
I know what I am saying here is not the popular opinion but I find it difficult to read hate filled posts putting all the blame on one individual with no explanation to back up their opinions. That's why I don't mind questioning you WP because you're likely to at least explain your thinking  :thumbsup

Sorry Stripes, it is that easy. Has been for weeks now.

Our season has been shot for weeks. And what do we continue to do? We keep playing blokes who as I said continually let us down.

We have kids that are coming out of contract at the end of this season. Some are likely to get de-listed. But how do we know if they are worth persisting with if they don't get the opportunities?

I disagree. Sorry WP, its not that easy. Are we still trying to develop team confidence and regain belief or are we rebuilding? If we are trying to establish a winning culture again then making whole sale changes in not the way to go. I, like you, would like to see Helbig get a series of games to see if he will make it but the one thing Morris does (even injured) which I haven't seen from Helbig, is shown consistent desperation to win a contest. Morris' injury  can not get any worse by playing (I'm giving some blind credit here though  :pray) so Dimma obviously feels he will get more out of Morris than what Helbig is showing. I do agree with you here though - I would like to see Morris be rested for Helbig.


I get frustrated when people throw this "red herring" up about the likes of Houli, Grigg and Ellis being "easy targets because they are outside players". Granted their roles dictate that they play majority outside but when they are the only ones in contest then they simply must make contest. You chase, you tackle, you attack the ball. Outside or inside when it's just you and your opponent then you go. There is NO excuses as it can cost you games as it did on round 3 against the Bulldogs when Ellis refused to make a contest against Gia. As for Ellis and "his courageous acts" last season. Ellis has been pulling out of contest since he started. He did it last year and is continuing to do it this year. Staggers me that he can a decent contested mark overhead but when the balls on the ground refuse to put his body on the line.

I get frustrated when people use the term - 'red herring'  :P. The biggest problem we have is not with players like Grigg, Ellis and Houli but rather the roles they have been given. They have been coached to play an outside game but now they are being forced to play in a foreign role. Grigg is the biggest problem here. He only knows one way to play and hasn't the skills or ability to adapt to a more contested style. Houli has changed his game to be more contested but it still does not come naturally to him but credit where credit is due.

Ellis can be a courageous player. Last year I saw him back into marking contests frequently and desperately throw himself over at the ball. For whatever reason this season I haven't seen that in his game and he seems lost and timid out there. I don't know why. Perhaps his running game has been taken away from him by the opposition? Regardless he has lost all confidence and space at present.
[/quote]

If Morris has the injury? Do you not seeing him week after week running to he boundary holding his shoulder and favouring his arm? Throw in the fact Harwick actually said in his weekly presser that they will continue to play him. Reckon it's a clear give always that he's playing injured,

As for Helbig, how will we ever know if is any good or a better option if he doesn't get played? We don't. Heaven forbid if we have another player show that perhaps the coaching panel have got it wrong at the selection table see exhibit A = Anthony Miles

See above

So one bad week and they don't deserve promotion?

Weeks of poor performance by blokes it AFL is acceptable?

Sorry but I don't see it that way. But hey it gives Hardwick another out for another week doesn't it

One bad week you say? Currently we sit 14th on the VFL ladder or 3rd bottom. This is not one bad week. The three winds we had was largely set up by a rampaging Miles. Helbig has been good at times don't get me wrong but he has been made to look better because of the poor performances of those around him.
[/quote]


As I said above one poor performance after weeks excellent performances and you argue they don't deserve an opportunity?

But for our AFL players who have performed poorly for weeks now they simply get the luxury of another chance because of a very poor excuse

As I said what message are we sending to these kids?

The message this is sending to the kids is that there are places available in the team if you earn it so step up and take the spot of players like Ellis, Morris, Newman etc but don't expect to be just given a gig because you are nearing the end of a contract.


I wish we had more players like Miles busting the door down but sadly we just don't  :'(

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2014, 01:13:26 PM »
I disagree. Sorry WP, its not that easy. Are we still trying to develop team confidence and regain belief or are we rebuilding? If we are trying to establish a winning culture again then making whole sale changes in not the way to go. I, like you, would like to see Helbig get a series of games to see if he will make it but the one thing Morris does (even injured) which I haven't seen from Helbig, is shown consistent desperation to win a contest. Morris' injury  can not get any worse by playing (I'm giving some blind credit here though  :pray) so Dimma obviously feels he will get more out of Morris than what Helbig is showing. I do agree with you here though - I would like to see Morris be rested for Helbig.

TBBH I'm not sure what the club is trying to develop anymore. And based on this seasons selection I'm not sure the club does either.

This constant playing of favourites despite their "poor" form is not going to build confidence, it's not going to restore belief and it certainly isn't doing anything about creating a winning culture. On the contrary I think the selection mentality has done the opposite especially in the belief stakes.

Obviously we are not seeing the same thing regarding Helbig. I see a kid in the VFL attacking every contest as if it's his last, so I cannot agree on you assertion Helbig doens't show enough desperation. Ditto Arnott.

They are doing what is asked of them. Tim Clarke said it pre-match on Friday night, so I will say it again what more do they need to do?

Quote
I get frustrated when people use the term - 'red herring'  :P. The biggest problem we have is not with players like Grigg, Ellis and Houli but rather the roles they have been given. They have been coached to play an outside game but now they are being forced to play in a foreign role. Grigg is the biggest problem here. He only knows one way to play and hasn't the skills or ability to adapt to a more contested style. Houli has changed his game to be more contested but it still does not come naturally to him but credit where credit is due.

Ellis can be a courageous player. Last year I saw him back into marking contests frequently and desperately throw himself over at the ball. For whatever reason this season I haven't seen that in his game and he seems lost and timid out there. I don't know why. Perhaps his running game has been taken away from him by the opposition? Regardless he has lost all confidence and space at present.

Facts are Stripes that when Dimma was appointed coach he said that onehis "non negotiables" was that at any contest when it was a players "turn to go" (eg attack the contest, make they contest), they would go and if they didn't they wouldn't be playing. I posted a few weeks back wjhen did this 'non negotiable" become a "negotiable" especially with regard to certain players. It is either a team rule/ethos or it isn't. It can't be selective but over the last 24 months it certainly has been

Quote
One bad week you say? Currently we sit 14th on the VFL ladder or 3rd bottom. This is not one bad week. The three winds we had was largely set up by a rampaging Miles. Helbig has been good at times don't get me wrong but he has been made to look better because of the poor performances of those around him.

And our AFL side has won 3 games and have been consistently bad ALL season so the argument that because our VFL side sit 3rd bottom we shouldn't give players opportunties is a contridiction.

If players are performing the roles that they have been asked to do at VFL level and are playing well then the VFL results are no matter how bad become irrelevant.

Miles played games at VFL level where the side was terrible and he was excellent. You seem to be implying that he is the exception to the rule. In that his performance mattered in sub-standard team performances and warranted AFL selection but no ones else does. Not sure it can work like that. Actually no; I don't believe it should work like that
 
Quote
The message this is sending to the kids is that there are places available in the team if you earn it so step up and take the spot of players like Ellis, Morris, Newman etc but don't expect to be just given a gig because you are nearing the end of a contract.

I wish we had more players like Miles busting the door down but sadly we just don't  :'(

Clearly that is where we disagree, because that clearly isn't the message. What places are available when players aren't getting dropped for their poor performances. Miles was knocking down the door for months and it made no difference; he couldn't get a look in. Then when they finally promoted him it took a further 3 weeks for him to get selected. So I again argue that your arguement here is flawed

I believe we have kids who have done enough at VFL level to be given an opportunity but they haven't been and it appears they wont be.


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Offline Yeahright

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2014, 01:14:14 PM »
I think the deciding factor is where we are sitting right now. No chance of finals and from this point the more wins we get the worst it'll be for us. We had our chance at building a winning culture last year by winning 15 games and then we deliver this poo. Need to develop the kids and put people like Morris in for an op. Sure his injury might not get acutely worse but it can be giving him longer term damage. If we win the games with kids even better we get development and a winning culture but I don't buy into that culture crap as much as I do development

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2014, 01:30:55 PM »
If gale had any balls he'd hold Hardwick accountable
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 06:29:18 PM by WilliamPowell »
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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2014, 01:32:04 PM »
Or " Peggy "

Lmao at that peeweak appointment.

No wonder dimmer likes it
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Offline Chuck17

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2014, 01:52:38 PM »
The points I got out of that was; balls, prick and Peggy

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2014, 02:35:33 PM »
The points I got out of that was; balls, prick and Peggy
Dies that mean that Peggy has the other two? 
If so, Peggy should consider a name change!
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Offline Chuck17

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2014, 02:36:23 PM »
The points I got out of that was; balls, prick and Peggy
Dies that mean that Peggy has the other two? 
If so, Peggy should consider a name change!

Welllllll I didnt want to say that directly

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2014, 04:37:13 PM »
Jake the Peggy
Caracella and Balmey.

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2014, 06:29:43 PM »
I think the deciding factor is where we are sitting right now. No chance of finals and from this point the more wins we get the worst it'll be for us. We had our chance at building a winning culture last year by winning 15 games and then we deliver this poo. Need to develop the kids and put people like Morris in for an op. Sure his injury might not get acutely worse but it can be giving him longer term damage. If we win the games with kids even better we get development and a winning culture but I don't buy into that culture crap as much as I do development

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Offline yellowandback

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2014, 06:55:46 PM »
Just wanted to acknowledge what Stripes has posted, was thinking something very similar myself but didn't have the time to articulate it. Well done Stripes  :thumbsup
Also WP, you make some fair points and I'd imagine somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

What I wonder is how heavily these topics are debated behind closed doors at Tigerland?
 You'd certainly like to think so.
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Offline Stripes

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Re: Hardwick's post-match media conference
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2014, 08:12:39 PM »
Just wanted to acknowledge what Stripes has posted, was thinking something very similar myself but didn't have the time to articulate it. Well done Stripes  :thumbsup
Also WP, you make some fair points and I'd imagine somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

What I wonder is how heavily these topics are debated behind closed doors at Tigerland?
 You'd certainly like to think so.

 :cheers mate. I don't disagree with WP really but really just wanted to point out its not as easy as dropping players on mass. You need players who can fill their role in the team structure first and who are also performing at VFL level.

I would love to see Helbig in the side for an extended period this year and Arnot, Darrou, O'Hanlon and even McBean if their form warrants it.....and there is a spot for them  :shh ;D