Richmond expected to lay low in AFL trade period (Herald-Sun)

[Stripes]

Miles wasn't an 18 year old rookie. He was a 22 year old developed player who was pushed out of a talent laden GWS club and provided a second chance which he embraced. 

The others you mentioned are not stars either and are the exception rather than the rule. This is what I am trying say - taking a untested 18 year old who was overlooked through the draft because of deficiencies is a huge risk and a low percentage bet. Using the draft to secure depth and experience is a smart move imo because you gain immediate results and still have the opportunity to perhaps develop these types into quality additions to the team.

[georgies31]

FFS we wanted them to trade vickery and conca they dont want to even get rid of grigg lol no balls.

[Francois Jackson]

breust not a star player. lol okay. 2 time at an average of 2 goals a game.

as i said thats one example i can name plenty more.

over 10 rookies played off in last weeks GF. Your suggesting having blokes like Edwards and Thomas as rookies is the right way to go and i disagree. Those blokes dont do anything descent to your footy club other than enable you to finish mid table.

We might as well just select depth players with our later picks because as you said its a low percentage bet. Come on mate your better than that

the only rookie selection i have agreed with in the last few years is Owen, mainly because hampson is so crap and Maric needed some back up.

Stripes 2 clubs in geelong and hawthorn have won 6 of the past 7 flags. Have a look how many depth thomas/banfield style players they have on their list. Good clubs create depth by spending money on developing the kids so they are all pushing to get on the senior list. Good clubs don't take the easy option on  hacks no other clubs want.

[Diocletian]

[Penelope]

If that's what you, and many others floating about here, really want claw then I'm 100% behind you. What I don't want though is to give up early picks on average players like Hampson. I'm happy to use rookie picked and the PSD to bring in experience and depth but if we are going to use our draft picks for a trade it would want to be a bona fide talent.

What does give me the sh.i.tes though is when we do bring in experienced or more mature players to give us depth using the rookie and PSD draft and people decide to criticize the club for not bringing in young players instead. The strike rate for developing a 18-year old player through the rookie draft is next to nil now days. In the past you could find gems but given the systems and time invested into drafting now days their are very few diamonds in the rough that slip through. I would much prefer us going with the odd at this point than taking a risk on long shots and wonder why they fail to develop for us year after year.

I would like some well balanced posts every now and then

Chuck says this in jest Claw but if you could mix your posts with positives to couple with the negatives it would give more wait to what you say. I'm sure you'll ignore my advice here but you are obviously a knowledgeable analysis of our squad but many people just switch off from what you have to say because they know you will only post on here to slam the club or other peoples opinions.

Again though, if you really are preaching balance to our recruiting then I'm on your side 

you being serious.



Miles
Ambrose
Charlie Cameron
Breust

Mate there are plenty to have come through the rookie draft, issue is we cant seem find many compared to the the likes of hawks.

We take the easy option and select rubbish like thomas instead of investing in youth and getting rid of these imposters we have acting as development coaches and recruiters at the minute.

Stripes there is a reason why our strike rate is poor

rather than name 4 players and then say there have been plenty, why dont you actaully compare the number of those that made it and those that failed?

that is is the only way to judge even if it doesnt fit your pre concieved views

[Francois Jackson]

same could be said for any pick over 40. More dont work than ones that do. Goes without saying ur right there

What i am saying is you will never get anywhere near the top if you pursue these types as your late picks or rookies

exhibit a, b and c. sydney, hawthorn and cats. Choose the kids and develop them

I also said if you had bothered to read my last line no point in selecting kids if you dont spend the money developing them. We have an issue greater than the recruiters and thats the way our kids are developed. I dont like FJ at all but surely he cant be wrong on all the kids he has helped select.

[Stripes]

Development is as important, if not more important, as recruiting - no doubt there. I just don't think that at this stage of our list evolution that we can afford to take risks. We selected more mature and experienced players for role depth last year because going down the historical route of selecting kids with high deficiencies and little chance of making it just wasn't worth it.

Al is 100% right - it's easy to list the 3% of rookies who made it and ignore the 97% who didn't but we are just don't have the luxury to take a risk on players such as this atm.

If it was me I would use our PSD to get more experience and depth. I would use all our ND picks on youth and, if there remains any reasonable players left, use the first rookie pick on a overlooked kid. The rest of the rookie picks I'd use again on experience again. That's just me though 

[the claw]

6 rookie spots balance it out. 3 mature types if warranted and 3 19 thru 22 yr old types. rookie list is not about getting players in and be prepared to give 4 or 5 yrs because the latent talent has been identified. its all about getting them in and continually turning over the numbers. some not all can p[lay a role or even improve on the deficiencies that has seen them slip to the rookie list.

taking mainly mature players in the rookie nlist reduces your chances of finding how to put it a slow burner if you like. again its all about balance.
so often debates end up you said he said this that bla bla bla. people need to look hard at the process and forget about the players taken. good process means players will be taken with the best chance to succeedd even in the rookie draft.
at rfc i remain critical of the processes we go thru.

[one-eyed]

Not even a rumour but someone on the Giants' BF board has said Mark Whiley (inside mid) is in the same boat Miles was 12 months ago (on the outer at GWS) and would like him to go to Richmond to get a decent go.

Comparison: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=25&pid1=3793&tid2=15&pid2=3786&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=P&fopt2=2013

[the claw]

If that's what you, and many others floating about here, really want claw then I'm 100% behind you. What I don't want though is to give up early picks on average players like Hampson. I'm happy to use rookie picked and the PSD to bring in experience and depth but if we are going to use our draft picks for a trade it would want to be a bona fide talent.

What does give me the sh.i.tes though is when we do bring in experienced or more mature players to give us depth using the rookie and PSD draft and people decide to criticize the club for not bringing in young players instead. The strike rate for developing a 18-year old player through the rookie draft is next to nil now days. In the past you could find gems but given the systems and time invested into drafting now days their are very few diamonds in the rough that slip through. I would much prefer us going with the odd at this point than taking a risk on long shots and wonder why they fail to develop for us year after year.

I would like some well balanced posts every now and then

Chuck says this in jest Claw but if you could mix your posts with positives to couple with the negatives it would give more wait to what you say. I'm sure you'll ignore my advice here but you are obviously a knowledgeable analysis of our squad but many people just switch off from what you have to say because they know you will only post on here to slam the club or other peoples opinions.

Again though, if you really are preaching balance to our recruiting then I'm on your side 

if you actually read my posts over the yrs you would not be unsure of where i stand. could not make it clearer if i tried.ffs hampson i was just about a lone voice on this site arguing the process in taking hampson. how anyone in their right mind in looking at hampson both statistically and performance wise and want to take him is beyond belief yet most of you lot defended the club. ffs one only had to watch the bloke play and at 26 yrs of age say no thank you. what freakin process did blair richardson and jackson go thru. the lack of process hounds us to death. and because of it we make more mistakes than we get right.
i dont support mediocrity and i damn well wont praise it.

dont know how long ive gone on about  good processes and good balance. ffs i advocated long and hard we go into the state leagues much more and ignore delisted afl players, got howled down, ive advocated taking vets and got howled down ive advocated the rookie list for a balanced approach of kids needs especially rucks and talls and mature players and generally got howlked down.

ffs get over the the critiques i wont change that, look at what is actually being said.
every single thing i post on list and players is done to a process i go thu on players and list management.  people think im big noting but my processes see me way in front of those being paid to run the footy dept. damn right i will criticise.

mate im going to criticise and criticse and then criticise some more. it wont change until they freakin actually achieve something. but it will be consistent good process that will shut me up.
i could go back to when i first started posting and just point blank criticise with no reason why. maybe i should do that.
just to finish i thought we went thru good processes in hardwicks first two yrs after that we have imo lost the plot to a good degree.

[Stripes]

Have to say you're a passionate man claw but if you choose to, as you say, criticize, criticize and criticize some more then don't come out here and wonder why people do the same to your posts. You reap what you sew.

If you look back through my posts over the years you'll find I advocate a very similar strategy as you with our recruitment (as I reiterated in my last post in this thread). I just try and suggest it in a different manner    Yes I am probably too supportive and positive of the club at times and get my share of whacks because of it, but I would rather support the club I love than feel like I am constantly trying to undermine it. I know others see criticizing the club as a way of keeping it accountable. I say expect the best first.

We can't change who you are I guess    I enjoy your posts and insights regardless 

[the claw]

Have to say you're a passionate man claw but if you choose to, as you say, criticize, criticize and criticize some more then don't come out here and wonder why people do the same to your posts.

If you look back through my posts over the years you'll find I want the same strategy as you with our recruitment (as I reiterated in my last post in this thread). I just try and say it in a less offensive manner    I am probably too supportive and positive of the club at times and get my share of wackes because of it but I would rather support the club I love than feel like I am constantly trying to undermine it.

We can't change who you are I guess  I enjoy your posts and insights regardless 

mate your a damn good poster but. thats where i will stop. im always happy to debate our club with you. i wont agree with you and when i disagree i go hard because i want us to be better.

im not being offensive bud im just being honest as i see it truth. im not undermining a thing i am supporting the club not by just going along with everything but with saying hey this is bloody wrong we must change.
cmon stripes you only needd look at the last 32 yrs to see and know firstly a lot of us have seen the same sort of things and can comment and we can actually see if things have changed enough to set us on the right path.  ffs 32 yrs of failure has taught me freakin heaps and when the worm actually turns i will gladly jump on your wagon.we are yet to prove a thingi reckon a all of us older tigers are entitled to see real change before we proclaim the resurrection.

[Yeahright]

as it is we cant do 5 nd picks not enough delistings  ive alluded to that plenty of times as well.

And what sort of picks do you expect?

[the claw]

as it is we cant do 5 nd picks not enough delistings  ive alluded to that plenty of times as well.

And what sort of picks do you expect?

not sure what you want to know.
i would have thought if we are going to invest heavily in the nd with 4 or 5 picks  rfc words, well 4 picks would be about normal anyway then i would hope we would be trying to at least gain better or upgrade picks thru some trades.

if we could trade into a pick at 15-25 and maybe get another at around 35-40 our 5 picks would go something like, dont ask me who we should trade every time a player is mentioned people get uptight and what is being said inevitably gets lost.   
11, 20, 29, 40,47,  if they cant do some real damage with those sort of picks they should not be in the job. i would at least expect them to try and gain better picks and not do a thing having stated we will invest heavily in the nd.

[scjhammo]

SERIOUSLY y wouldn't we try and off load Grigg his time is clearly up??????