Author Topic: Why we missed out on Treloar & others - Richmond always offer le$$ than market value for new tale  (Read 38296 times)

Offline Penelope

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now im confused

other clubs bring in quality and/or experienced players to help with their development.

We dont because our main objective is development, not winning?
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Offline WilliamPowell

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now im confused

other clubs bring in quality and/or experienced players to help with their development.

We dont because our main objective is development, not winning?

Other clubs bring in the experience so they are competitive on field, you know that means they put some sort importance on winning. Part of development involves winning. It may not be the most import at thing but it is still part of it

Having blokes around you who (a) know how to win & (b) have recent AFL experience can only help with young blokes development. It's worked very well at the Bulldogs & Geelong

We seem to focus any development being done coaches. Reckon experienced players on field can have an influence
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Offline bojangles17

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Most of our targets remained with existing clubs , we lost Treloar with a higher offer From Coll, they are lacking in a depth of senior players post beams and shaw et al and can afford to bring in a high priced recruit that won't destabilise payment heirachy in place.
Geel(until now)  or haw have never bought in players that would make them the highest paid on the list
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Offline Stalin

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Give us a hawks pay structure last ten years

For poos and giggles
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Offline Francois Jackson

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WP out of curiosity who have box hill brought in that has helped them succeed? I use them as an example as I think it's not who they brought in rather who they have playing for a spot in the seniors. We still don't even know if bean, dea are any better or worse than the blokes in the seniors

Bojangles stop making poo up, who says we lost out to treloar due to money? Yep that's it we lose out to all of them due to money. Pies have Cloke, Swan , Pendlebury on equal or higher to that of treloar and we would have had jack, lids, Cotch and Dusty in a few yrs.
Tell me who would and deserves to get teary if treloar was offered 700k at punt road outside of those names? Grigg, houli? The kid is a jet and the simple fact is he like others doesn't want a bar of our club until we start to win in September



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Offline tdy

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I know we haven't offered Treloar and last year Greenwood as much as Collingwood has for both. We are really strong on our pay structure and don't deviate from it, problem is to bring in big talent you have to pay overs and we simply are unwilling to do that. People may argue that carlisle at 700k a year is overs, but that's what it takes to prize away one of the best young KP talents in the country just entering their prime.
so if you were to list all the occasions where clubs have paid overs for a big name player in recent times and listed their subsequent success (or lack thereof) how does it stack up?

Buddy 'lets dump an A grade ruckman for' Franklin comes to mind. Terrible recruiting there. Lost them the bloods culture, way more important than any goals he kicks.

Offline Francois Jackson

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Yeah it did too. Just finished top 4 ever since and were a few goals away from playing Hawks in a GF

Can see the bloods culture really in decline since he came on board
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Offline tdy

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Norths great 1990s side came through juniors together but i believe that was the last under 19s side to go on and become a winning senior side.  I think Geelong deliberately recruited players who had been in winning teams in juniors and it lead to tbeir great success under Bomber T. I wonder if the Hawks do that these days?

Offline tdy

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Yeah it did too. Just finished top 4 ever since and were a few goals away from playing Hawks in a GF

Can see the bloods culture really in decline since he came on board

They could have won the GF with Mumford and this year they just didnt have the spirit in the tight games.  Maybe they were too old, maybe the salary cap was biting but I reckon they lost heart this year.

Offline WA Tiger

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“We are really excited about what we have brought in. We have got great depth of players that can take us where we need to go. We are just putting some cream on the top at the moment,” he said.

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Offline WilliamPowell

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WP out of curiosity who have box hill brought in that has helped them succeed? I use them as an example as I think it's not who they brought in rather who they have playing for a spot in the seniors. We still don't even know if bean, dea are any better or worse than the blokes in the seniors


Different scenario Angus as Box Hill is a VFL side that has an alignment with Hawthorn. As a result they are required to have a much larger list (the field 2 sides VFL seniors & reserves). They then have available the Hawthorn players not playing AFL. So I am not sure it is a fair comparison.

Box hill is responsible for putting its list together. Being one of the stronger VFL clubs financially they've always been able to attract good players, not only they are good at developing and bringing through their kids.

If you want to compare our VFL set up to others clubs you have to look at Bulldogs, C'wood, Geelong, Pies, Essendon the stand alone AFL clubs fielding their own VFL sides 

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Offline tdy

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Yeah it did too. Just finished top 4 ever since and were a few goals away from playing Hawks in a GF

Can see the bloods culture really in decline since he came on board

They could have won the GF with Mumford and this year they just didnt have the spirit in the tight games.  Maybe they were too old, maybe the salary cap was biting but I reckon they lost heart this year.
To add to that the fact they lost Mumford to GWS, Malceski to GC and Jetta wants to go home speaks volumes.

As an aside next year is a real test for them,  they will have replaced almost their entire GF backline except for Ted Richards.

Offline the claw

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I know we haven't offered Treloar and last year Greenwood as much as Collingwood has for both. We are really strong on our pay structure and don't deviate from it, problem is to bring in big talent you have to pay overs and we simply are unwilling to do that. People may argue that carlisle at 700k a year is overs, but that's what it takes to prize away one of the best young KP talents in the country just entering their prime.
so if you were to list all the occasions where clubs have paid overs for a big name player in recent times and listed their subsequent success (or lack thereof) how does it stack up?

So if you run the stats like you have with buddy and Tippett does that mean, we should not chase top end talent?

Not so much dont chase it, just dont crazy overboard to get it. This, naturally, means that it aint going to happen very often, though

A couple of things that stick in mind that I have heard mentioned from within the club.

That looking at overseas sporting comps, bringing in high profile players under free agency ultimately leads to loosing a number of lesser players. I don't think this is limited to free agency though.
The salary cap makes this just about a monty to happen.

That their recruiting policy was to draft for the top liners and trade for need. considering the first statement, this makes sense to me, but it pretty much means that most of your trades are not going to be at the top end of talent.

If you can get a top liner at the right price, then fine, but I'm not convinced chasing one at any cost just for the sake of it is the way to go.

If you look at whorethornes recruiting over the last few years, they certainly have not gone down this path. they paid quite a bit for Frawley (who i reckon has been largely underwhelming) but this of course was faciltaed by the loss of Franklin.

Astute, is the word i would use for their recruiting
Yet the  hawks have been prepared to pay  for their traded players. Id say both astute and prepared to pay at the same time. At the end of the day they have addressed a need or added some depth.
Anderson nd 27, nd 63, S Gilham
Burgoyne nd9 nd16.
Gibson nd 25, nd 41.
Gunston nd24 their first rnd pick, nd46, nd64.
Hale nd 27, nd 71
lake nd 21, nd 43
McEvoy nd 18, Shane Savage.
O'Rourke nd 19 first rnd pick, nd 40
Sphanger nd 64

Frawley UF/A no cost involved. Is a very good player . Imo that has always been the case.
The rest i totally agree with.

Offline Penelope

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payed a fair price, not overly stupid price.

it would be fair to say that these are not the only trades they showed interest in, just the ones that they could get at the right price.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Francois Jackson

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Yeah it did too. Just finished top 4 ever since and were a few goals away from playing Hawks in a GF

Can see the bloods culture really in decline since he came on board

They could have won the GF with Mumford and this year they just didnt have the spirit in the tight games.  Maybe they were too old, maybe the salary cap was biting but I reckon they lost heart this year.
To add to that the fact they lost Mumford to GWS, Malceski to GC and Jetta wants to go home speaks volumes.

As an aside next year is a real test for them,  they will have replaced almost their entire GF backline except for Ted Richards.
Anderson, whitecross, buddy and suckling are now all leaving or have left the Hawks

Bad culture? Pies lost shaw and beams. poo happens

Unfortunately we don't have players like Conca  wanting to leave and we don't have the balls to throw them up for a trade.
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