Author Topic: VFL R12: Richmond vs Collingwood --- Sun. June 26 @ Vic. Park --- Live on Ch 7  (Read 11825 times)

Offline the claw

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 4259
  • For We're From Tigerland
Has shown bugger all in the VFL.

And where do people get the "skillful" idea from?

Quick yes, but skillful? Setting the bar pretty low for skills if that's the case.
Was super clean and very skilled as a junior. He has plenty of skills but for some reason these kids seem to lose them when in our vfl side.
When you look at how poorly the vast majority of our juniors perform at VFL level how their skills drop away their ability to find the ball etc then something is seriously wrong.
It is a constant theme and if the criteria  for our juniors is  to consistently play well in the ressies then we will never ever give a game to any of the kids.

I liked the look of Butler when we drafted him. but i agree im not sure what he has done to demand a game.
Imo he does have the right attributes or he did!!! to become a good sml fwd. Pace, Decent skills, Goal sense, and is a good tackler and works hard without the ball in hand.

Personally i think we need to  bite the bullet and acknowledge the need to play kids in an attempt to find out who can and can not play at the level.
Playing these kids means we will take the step backwards that they spoke about as far as results go. The only other option is to go into denial and continue to play blokes who clearly cannot take us anywhere but may enable us to win a few more games than we would with such inexperienced kids like Butler.

As acollective we are either prepared to take a step backwards or we are not.

Offline Stalin

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 8356
  • Close your mouth pls, we are not a codfish
Yes but the fans demanded finals in four years

They wouldn't accept a long drawn out rebuild.
Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Offline big tone

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 4404
Has shown bugger all in the VFL.

And where do people get the "skillful" idea from?

Quick yes, but skillful? Setting the bar pretty low for skills if that's the case.
Was super clean and very skilled as a junior. He has plenty of skills but for some reason these kids seem to lose them when in our vfl side.
When you look at how poorly the vast majority of our juniors perform at VFL level how their skills drop away their ability to find the ball etc then something is seriously wrong.
It is a constant theme and if the criteria  for our juniors is  to consistently play well in the ressies then we will never ever give a game to any of the kids.

I liked the look of Butler when we drafted him. but i agree im not sure what he has done to demand a game.
Imo he does have the right attributes or he did!!! to become a good sml fwd. Pace, Decent skills, Goal sense, and is a good tackler and works hard without the ball in hand.

Personally i think we need to  bite the bullet and acknowledge the need to play kids in an attempt to find out who can and can not play at the level.
Playing these kids means we will take the step backwards that they spoke about as far as results go. The only other option is to go into denial and continue to play blokes who clearly cannot take us anywhere but may enable us to win a few more games than we would with such inexperienced kids like Butler.

As acollective we are either prepared to take a step backwards or we are not.
Let's be honest here Claw, Hardwick hasn't changed a thing in all his time at the club. I doubt he will anytime soon. We are stuck with the same poo game plan and shittruck players he continues to play week in week out. He is doing more damage than good at the minute. How can you keep picking guys like Belllis, Batchelor and Vickery after the seasons they have had. Even players like Hunt and Grigg are not taking us from a middling side to a top side so why keep playing them?? What is the bet Houli will come straight back into the side when fit!!
I love watching footy, and not just the Tigers, but unfortunately Dimma has made it really unenjoyable to watch us play these days. I get so envious watching sides pass us but more importantly play a good style of footy to watch.
The club has some real challenges ahead of it but if they play to their true form, nothing much will change. 

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

  • Long suffering….
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 10688
And we never use the fat side when kicking into the forward line. :banghead
OER. Calling it as it is since 2004.

Offline TigerMonk

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
If some of you judge a player from VFL football when a player has been drafted to the RFC list then you better think seriously what you know about football. These lads are not drafted to play 2nd rate football. They are a elite crop of  footballers who many have been playing senior football with their own clubs at a young age before even being drafted to play TAC & on-wards to AFL club lists.

Example; What do some of you know about a young footballer Ben Ainsworth. l rate this lad in the next draft top 10 after watching him for 5 years. If you put this lad in the VFL he would look average & lose interest. A very exciting footballer who bust his guts & is highly skilled & very smart, with a huge tank. l reckon his played more senior football than many of you  :snidegrin l rate him highly but not to play VFL. Who ever picks this lad up will get a 10+ year player. Now l'm using him as a example so next year we can bring this up again.

Now if some of you reckon Butler is average. l see a different footballer who is playing as best he can around some guys who hold him back. Give him a game at the highest level & we will see a far better player. The problem at RFC is they are not lifting the players to the next level & have players in the top 22 that shouldn't be playing as they are passengers. Bellis is 1 of these players. Vickery is another. Astbury the other. McBean for Vickery, Bultler for Bellis, & The biggest mistake the club made was Astbury should have gone instead of Dea. So take your pick who will replace Astbury cause injury has taken its toll on that lad & he is a mere VFL player at present but has talent. Not quite that smart  ;D

Online mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58602
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Good to see Blair at Vic park not giving up chasing Treloar's signature  :snidegrin.

All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline WilliamPowell

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 40363
  • Better to ignore a fool than encourage one
    • One Eyed Richmond
Now if some of you reckon Butler is average. l see a different footballer who is playing as best he can around some guys who hold him back. Give him a game at the highest level & we will see a far better player. The problem at RFC is they are not lifting the players to the next level & have players in the top 22 that shouldn't be playing as they are passengers. Bellis is 1 of these players. Vickery is another. Astbury the other. McBean for Vickery, Bultler for Bellis, & The biggest mistake the club made was Astbury should have gone instead of Dea. So take your pick who will replace Astbury cause injury has taken its toll on that lad & he is a mere VFL player at present but has talent. Not quite that smart  ;D

On Astbury he was contracted, Dea wasnt'. They tried to trade Astbury, as contracted player he had to OK any trade, he didn't so we are stuck with him for 2016 at least

On our VFL set-up, have said for yonks, our program is terrible. And the VFL listed blokes we have around our AFL listed players isn't helping in bettering our kids.

But the point you make about Butler is perfectly highlighted by Menadue. At VFL level Mendaue is at times average, play him in the AFL and he plays to very a different standard. VFL game time doesn't help this kid but at the same time he doesn't help himself sometimes when he goes back ... his attitude (read body language) is poor
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline eliminator

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 3812
Astbury is a key position player. Dea was not. Dea and Astbury played completely different roles at the club. Having said that whether Astbury is retained by the club is very much undecided.

In relation to Butler although I would like to see him play in the seniors soon I doubt Hardwick is going to take any risks at the moment. I truly hope I am wrong in this regard.


Offline the claw

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 4259
  • For We're From Tigerland
Has shown bugger all in the VFL.

And where do people get the "skillful" idea from?

Quick yes, but skillful? Setting the bar pretty low for skills if that's the case.
Was super clean and very skilled as a junior. He has plenty of skills but for some reason these kids seem to lose them when in our vfl side.
When you look at how poorly the vast majority of our juniors perform at VFL level how their skills drop away their ability to find the ball etc then something is seriously wrong.
It is a constant theme and if the criteria  for our juniors is  to consistently play well in the ressies then we will never ever give a game to any of the kids.

I liked the look of Butler when we drafted him. but i agree im not sure what he has done to demand a game.
Imo he does have the right attributes or he did!!! to become a good sml fwd. Pace, Decent skills, Goal sense, and is a good tackler and works hard without the ball in hand.

Personally i think we need to  bite the bullet and acknowledge the need to play kids in an attempt to find out who can and can not play at the level.
Playing these kids means we will take the step backwards that they spoke about as far as results go. The only other option is to go into denial and continue to play blokes who clearly cannot take us anywhere but may enable us to win a few more games than we would with such inexperienced kids like Butler.

As acollective we are either prepared to take a step backwards or we are not.
Let's be honest here Claw, Hardwick hasn't changed a thing in all his time at the club. I doubt he will anytime soon. We are stuck with the same poo game plan and pootruck players he continues to play week in week out. He is doing more damage than good at the minute. How can you keep picking guys like Belllis, Batchelor and Vickery after the seasons they have had. Even players like Hunt and Grigg are not taking us from a middling side to a top side so why keep playing them?? What is the bet Houli will come straight back into the side when fit!!
I love watching footy, and not just the Tigers, but unfortunately Dimma has made it really unenjoyable to watch us play these days. I get so envious watching sides pass us but more importantly play a good style of footy to watch.
The club has some real challenges ahead of it but if they play to their true form, nothing much will change.
Pretty much agree with all of that.

Offline the claw

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 4259
  • For We're From Tigerland
Astbury is a key position player. Dea was not. Dea and Astbury played completely different roles at the club. Having said that whether Astbury is retained by the club is very much undecided.

In relation to Butler although I would like to see him play in the seniors soon I doubt Hardwick is going to take any risks at the moment. I truly hope I am wrong in this regard.
The scary part is we literally have just 4 KPD's and only one of them is up to AFL standard atm.
Chaplin should be retired, Astbury is not good enough and Elton has managed just two games in 5 years and like most of our juniors and development players has shown little even in the magoos.

Offline Yeahright

  • Moderator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 9394
Has shown bugger all in the VFL.

And where do people get the "skillful" idea from?

Quick yes, but skillful? Setting the bar pretty low for skills if that's the case.
I think we are all entitled to our opinions. I think he has good skills. He certainly hits targets well at training. His problems are consistency and a bit of discipline.

So does Hammer :help

Offline Yeahright

  • Moderator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 9394
Jason Castagna

Played as a midfielder for three quarters, and particularly in the first half, he was probably our best player.

We moved him to half-back in the last quarter where he didn’t have as much influence.


Oh gee I wonder what went wrong? Eff me why do they do these stupid things? Probably was winning the ball before A.Moore and we couldn't allow that to happen to Blair

Offline Chuck17

  • The Shaun Grugg of OER
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13309
Astbury is a key position player. Dea was not. Dea and Astbury played completely different roles at the club. Having said that whether Astbury is retained by the club is very much undecided.

In relation to Butler although I would like to see him play in the seniors soon I doubt Hardwick is going to take any risks at the moment. I truly hope I am wrong in this regard.
The scary part is we literally have just 4 KPD's and only one of them is up to AFL standard atm.

As Rance is the best KPD in the league he is at the highest level of AFL standard

Offline Stalin

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 8356
  • Close your mouth pls, we are not a codfish
Clawski was still technically correct best kind of correct
Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Offline Chuck17

  • The Shaun Grugg of OER
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13309
Clawski was still technically correct best kind of correct

Maybe but from the tone of the email I sensed that he was down playing exactly how good Rance is