Board Spill? / Challenge called off/ Malvern Hotel group has re-emerged [update]

[Penelope]

youd be thinking of Hercock

[Harry]

I know Dr Hiscock.
Good cardiologist. Nice bloke.

maybe he can give a few of them weak players down there a stronger heart 

Works with Ron Dick at Epworth. Dick and Hiscock. Yep, that's right!

I know Dr Hiscocks brother Jack.  Good bloke.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

I know Dr Hiscock.
Good cardiologist. Nice bloke.

maybe he can give a few of them weak players down there a stronger heart 

Works with Ron Dick at Epworth. Dick and Hiscock. Yep, that's right!

I know Dr Hiscocks brother Jack.  Good bloke.

The absolute truth is that he does have a brother but his name is Richard - no joking.

[WilliamPowell]

Just checked the definition of "muddling". Bring into a disordered or confusing state.
I'd say I agree with that.

IMO the accounts are presented in a way that makes it difficult to separate out different revenue streams to understand them.
You say that the FTF amount should be disclosed.
I would have thought that bringing all revenue streams together in a lump sum, noting that they start out as separate accounts, brings them to a disordered or confusing state.
To me that's a lack of detail.
"Presented to hide something". Probably yes, our reliance on funds such as the FTF to generate profits.

While I understand your point and I do agree to a point I come back to the fact that they are presenting them as they are required to by law. Obviously internally all revenues like expenses would be categorised on line by line basis. But (and I know I keep saying the same thing) for the purposes of what they must legally publicly disclose they are meeting their obligations. This isn't something that only relates to this club or AFL other clubs do. This is common for large publicly listed companies = the disclose the barest of info.

Whether that is right or wrong is a separate discussion

Yes I do believe the FTF funds should be disclosed separately but there is no legal obligation to do so. I counter the notion of reliance on the FTF to generate profits. You could easily justify that there is a reliance on our pokies revenue to generate profits or our sponsorship or membership. The fact is the FTF is revenue stream of the club. Just like this Fitness Centre project down in Cardinia shire is a new revenue stream. Clubs have multiple revenue streams. I would like more detail on each category because as I said the other week in another thread how we classify one thing is different to how other clubs do so when you try and compare it creates a confusion and clouds discussion

Correct.  The numbers don't add up.  How can football revenue be 14m (memberships gate afl funding) and sponsorship / marketing be 26m?  Are they disclosing membership as marketing?  Seems there's some "muddling" going on.

the numbers do add up but the issue is how they classify things and what detail the present.

Go back the discussion the other week about sponsorship. A newspaper report said our sponsorship was about $4-$6 mil but our total marketing figure in 2015 was $24.4 mil and $23.7 mil in 2014. So that $4-$6 sponsorship number is clear not right based on the total figures...

Are they including membership in marketing I have no idea; it's good question - an interesting question

I would be wrapt to see them give us more detail but as I said until they legally have to; they and I'd estimate a further 12 or AFL clubs wont

 

[WilliamPowell]

Has anyone actually asked to see the full financials?

  Which year would you like 

[YellowandBlackBlood]

Has anyone actually asked to see the full financials?

  Which year would you like 

I should have known!

I am a 

[WilliamPowell]

Has anyone actually asked to see the full financials?

  Which year would you like 

I should have known!

I am a 

 

Just looking at last year's

Did you know that not only is the JDF contributions reported separately on the Income Statement as required by law but so to is the Cash held in the JDF account on the balance sheet 

[YellowandBlackBlood]

Has anyone actually asked to see the full financials?

  Which year would you like 

I should have known!

I am a 

 

Just looking at last year's

Did you know that not only is the JDF contributions reported separately on the Income Statement as required by law but so to is the Cash held in the JDF account on the balance sheet 

Strange how certain professions find these things exciting!

[tdy]

I know Dr Hiscock.
Good cardiologist. Nice bloke.

maybe he can give a few of them weak players down there a stronger heart 

Works with Ron Dick at Epworth. Dick and Hiscock. Yep, that's right!

I know Dr Hiscocks brother Jack.  Good bloke.

Don't shake hands with him or wash if you do.

[Harry]

Just checked the definition of "muddling". Bring into a disordered or confusing state.
I'd say I agree with that.

IMO the accounts are presented in a way that makes it difficult to separate out different revenue streams to understand them.
You say that the FTF amount should be disclosed.
I would have thought that bringing all revenue streams together in a lump sum, noting that they start out as separate accounts, brings them to a disordered or confusing state.
To me that's a lack of detail.
"Presented to hide something". Probably yes, our reliance on funds such as the FTF to generate profits.

While I understand your point and I do agree to a point I come back to the fact that they are presenting them as they are required to by law. Obviously internally all revenues like expenses would be categorised on line by line basis. But (and I know I keep saying the same thing) for the purposes of what they must legally publicly disclose they are meeting their obligations. This isn't something that only relates to this club or AFL other clubs do. This is common for large publicly listed companies = the disclose the barest of info.

Whether that is right or wrong is a separate discussion

Yes I do believe the FTF funds should be disclosed separately but there is no legal obligation to do so. I counter the notion of reliance on the FTF to generate profits. You could easily justify that there is a reliance on our pokies revenue to generate profits or our sponsorship or membership. The fact is the FTF is revenue stream of the club. Just like this Fitness Centre project down in Cardinia shire is a new revenue stream. Clubs have multiple revenue streams. I would like more detail on each category because as I said the other week in another thread how we classify one thing is different to how other clubs do so when you try and compare it creates a confusion and clouds discussion

Correct.  The numbers don't add up.  How can football revenue be 14m (memberships gate afl funding) and sponsorship / marketing be 26m?  Are they disclosing membership as marketing?  Seems there's some "muddling" going on.

the numbers do add up but the issue is how they classify things and what detail the present.

Go back the discussion the other week about sponsorship. A newspaper report said our sponsorship was about $4-$6 mil but our total marketing figure in 2015 was $24.4 mil and $23.7 mil in 2014. So that $4-$6 sponsorship number is clear not right based on the total figures...

Are they including membership in marketing I have no idea; it's good question - an interesting question

I would be wrapt to see them give us more detail but as I said until they legally have to; they and I'd estimate a further 12 or AFL clubs wont

WP if you have last years full financials whats the breakdown of the 14m football revenue and 25m sponsorship / marketing revenue?

[WilliamPowell]

Its not broken down any further in the full financials

What the full financials have is notes to most categories but full breakdown no

Again they dont have to, so they don't

I have raised it at the AGM a number of times, that they should give more detail. But as everyone can see it hasn't changed

[Harry]

Its not broken down any further in the full financials

What the full financials have is notes to most categories but full breakdown no

Again they dont have to, so they don't

I have raised it at the AGM a number of times, that they should give more detail. But as everyone can see it hasn't changed

So they're not really full financials then.

Are these "full financials" the one you can download from the club website or sent directly to you by the club.

So in order to get more info we need the full PL statement.  As members are we entitled to this?

I would hazard a guess that some creative accounting is at play here "muddling" the accounts so we don't have clear visibility of our non supporter revenue, or lack thereof.

[WilliamPowell]

So they're not really full financials then.

Are these "full financials" the one you can download from the club website or sent directly to you by the club.

So in order to get more info we need the full PL statement.  As members are we entitled to this?

I would hazard a guess that some creative accounting is at play here "muddling" the accounts so we don't have clear visibility of our non supporter revenue, or lack thereof.

What you can download from the club website is the Concise Financial Statements

If you want the full financials which is about 20 pages longer and gives detailed notes on things then you call the club and they will forward it you

Sorry Harry but you are looking for something that just isn't there. There is no creative accounting. Everything is recorded and disclosed. They get independently audited. PWC are not going to sign off the accounts if they are not correct..

Everything is disclosed to the members as per ALL legal requirements/obligations in Australia.

Members get a Full Income Statement (P&L statement) now.

Your issue is the fact it isn't set out the way you want it; it isn't detailed the way you want so you are suggesting they're hiding things. They are not

Again (sorry for repeating it) they don't have to do anymore, supply anymore than what they are. The club is meetings its legal obligations.

By full P&L statement I think you are asking are members entitled to see the detailed monthly / yearly results etc? And if you are then my answer to that is (again wearing my accountants hat) is no. 

[Owl]

Has anyone actually asked to see the full financials?

  Which year would you like 

I should have known!

I am a 

 

Just looking at last year's

Did you know that not only is the JDF contributions reported separately on the Income Statement as required by law but so to is the Cash held in the JDF account on the balance sheet 

Strange how certain professions find these things exciting!

reminds of that scene in game of thrones where Arya tells the Hound that lots of people name their swords.

[Harry]

So they're not really full financials then.

Are these "full financials" the one you can download from the club website or sent directly to you by the club.

So in order to get more info we need the full PL statement.  As members are we entitled to this?

I would hazard a guess that some creative accounting is at play here "muddling" the accounts so we don't have clear visibility of our non supporter revenue, or lack thereof.

What you can download from the club website is the Concise Financial Statements

If you want the full financials which is about 20 pages longer and gives detailed notes on things then you call the club and they will forward it you

Sorry Harry but you are looking for something that just isn't there. There is no creative accounting. Everything is recorded and disclosed. They get independently audited. PWC are not going to sign off the accounts if they are not correct..

Everything is disclosed to the members as per ALL legal requirements/obligations in Australia.

Members get a Full Income Statement (P&L statement) now.

Your issue is the fact it isn't set out the way you want it; it isn't detailed the way you want so you are suggesting they're hiding things. They are not

Again (sorry for repeating it) they don't have to do anymore, supply anymore than what they are. The club is meetings its legal obligations.

By full P&L statement I think you are asking are members entitled to see the detailed monthly / yearly results etc? And if you are then my answer to that is (again wearing my accountants hat) is no.

WP - I'm not questioning whether they are correct or not - I'm sure these are the true results.  I'm questioning the classifications and what constitutes sponsorship/marketing revenue.  25m is a huge amount yet 14m for football revenue is very low.  I'm sure they are meeting their legal requirements, but as all good accountants know there are ways you can group results so certain aspects are not brought to the attention of the viewer. 

If membership dollars can legally be classified as marketing revenue then it's best for the club to muddle this with sponsorship so that sponsorship dollars doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.  I'm not questioning the legality. There's many ways you can group your financials to not bring to light certain aspects of the results.

You say members get full Income Statement (PL statement) now.  Where is this? 

I don't care how they set out the results, I just want to know the details of what makes up these revenue streams, and how much of this revenue is reliant on us supporters and members.