Jack Graham that is [merged]

[camboon]

Bet you weren’t at the game, how about reading the AFL website player stats before you dribble your vitriol against most of our players,

Haters have got to hate🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡lol

[Andyy]

Ok just two questions and it will be good to see who can be honest.

1/ Was his first three Quarters bloody ordinary.
2/ Did kicking two goals late save his game.

That is it in a nut shell. No bagging no talking him up but his game overall.

Only a fool would argue his first three quarters were poor. But hey it seems theres plenty of them around.
That leaves the obvious question. was two goals enough to save his game and make it a good game.

This will be interesting.

Yes his first 3 quarters were ordinary.

And yes his two goals (and full 4th quarter) saved his game.

When the game was there to be won he stood up. You might even say his lift was one of the reasons we got over the line.

He's a B-C grade player and is paid accordingly. Need a dozen of these in any team.

[Damo]

Ok just two questions and it will be good to see who can be honest.

1/ Was his first three Quarters bloody ordinary.
2/ Did kicking two goals late save his game.

That is it in a nut shell. No bagging no talking him up but his game overall.

Only a fool would argue his first three quarters were poor. But hey it seems theres plenty of them around.
That leaves the obvious question. was two goals enough to save his game and make it a good game.

This will be interesting.

Yes his first 3 quarters were ordinary.

And yes his two goals (and full 4th quarter) saved his game.

When the game was there to be won he stood up. You might even say his lift was one of the reasons we got over the line.

He's a B-C grade player and is paid accordingly. Need a dozen of these in any team.

Yesssssssss

Andy the voice of reason finally

He’s a B-C guy .. IMO falls into the 20-28 area of the list

What annoys me is the rose coloured glasses from so many .. you would think he was a top 5-10 bloke the way some carry on

Yes he has a big heart .. yes he tries hard .. yes a great bloke and teammate .. yes he is a heart and soul type .. yes he tackles hard (often second to the ball) .. great trier

But

Slow as treacle
Average skills at best

Those two points is why he falls into the B-C range

But some can’t see it

The geniuses who call him a running machine .. he isn’t a winger .. he is an inside mid where burst speed is crucial, and he has none .. if he was a winger like a McIntosh, then being a “running machine” would be relevant .. and before any quote his “top speed”, completely irrelevant when you are a locomotive and take 10 metres to get rolling

I actually like Graham as a 20-28 bloke .. it’s the dreamers that frustrate me

For the sake of it
I will list 15 players I have ahead of him in no particular order that I believe are clear cut ahead of Graham

Dusty
Bolton
Taranto
Prestia
Lynch
Cotchin (yep, even now)
Baker
Vlastuin
Dan Rioli
Short
Balta
Hopper
Nank
Broad
Grimes

Don’t think anyone can argue with those 15

Then there is more I personally have ahead of him

McIntosh 
Pickett
Gibcus (I know it’s been a season lost)
Riewoldt (yep, even now)

Then we are at the 20-28 section and where I have him

[Diocletian]

Ross if he hasn't gone past him now as well has at least shown he has a higher ceiling.....

Graham is an inside mid who can't win his own ball and lacks to tricks required to compensate for his lack of pace so he basically plays as some sort of defensive mid-cum- half forward hybrid type and  like a link man who mainly plays in and around the corridor instead of out on the flanks or the midfield equivalent of a decoy forward...in fact it's almost as if we invented an entirely new position just to accomodate him in the side...

[Damo]

Ross if he hasn't gone past him now as well has at least shown he has a higher ceiling.....

Graham is an inside mid who can't win his own ball and lacks to tricks required to compensate for his lack of pace so he basically plays as some sort of defensive mid-cum- half forward hybrid type and  like a link man who mainly plays in and around the corridor instead of out on the flanks or the midfield equivalent of a decoy forward...in fact it's almost as if we invented an entirely new position just to accomodate him in the side...

I have Ross ahead as well
In the 20-28 section

[Andyy]

Ok just two questions and it will be good to see who can be honest.

1/ Was his first three Quarters bloody ordinary.
2/ Did kicking two goals late save his game.

That is it in a nut shell. No bagging no talking him up but his game overall.

Only a fool would argue his first three quarters were poor. But hey it seems theres plenty of them around.
That leaves the obvious question. was two goals enough to save his game and make it a good game.

This will be interesting.

Yes his first 3 quarters were ordinary.

And yes his two goals (and full 4th quarter) saved his game.

When the game was there to be won he stood up. You might even say his lift was one of the reasons we got over the line.

He's a B-C grade player and is paid accordingly. Need a dozen of these in any team.

Yesssssssss

Andy the voice of reason finally

He’s a B-C guy .. IMO falls into the 20-28 area of the list

What annoys me is the rose coloured glasses from so many .. you would think he was a top 5-10 bloke the way some carry on

Yes he has a big heart .. yes he tries hard .. yes a great bloke and teammate .. yes he is a heart and soul type .. yes he tackles hard (often second to the ball) .. great trier

But

Slow as treacle
Average skills at best

Those two points is why he falls into the B-C range

But some can’t see it

The geniuses who call him a running machine .. he isn’t a winger .. he is an inside mid where burst speed is crucial, and he has none .. if he was a winger like a McIntosh, then being a “running machine” would be relevant .. and before any quote his “top speed”, completely irrelevant when you are a locomotive and take 10 metres to get rolling

I actually like Graham as a 20-28 bloke .. it’s the dreamers that frustrate me

For the sake of it
I will list 15 players I have ahead of him in no particular order that I believe are clear cut ahead of Graham

Dusty
Bolton
Taranto
Prestia
Lynch
Cotchin (yep, even now)
Baker
Vlastuin
Dan Rioli
Short
Balta
Hopper
Nank
Broad
Grimes

Don’t think anyone can argue with those 15

Then there is more I personally have ahead of him

McIntosh 
Pickett
Gibcus (I know it’s been a season lost)
Riewoldt (yep, even now)

Then we are at the 20-28 section and where I have him

Yep.

I thought he would be on the fringe with Taranto and Hopper coming into the club.

I genuinely think he's got a stable spot because of injuries.

If we had more blokes on the park he would be out. Can only play so many blokes like this.

[the claw]

Ok just two questions and it will be good to see who can be honest.

1/ Was his first three Quarters bloody ordinary.
2/ Did kicking two goals late save his game.

That is it in a nut shell. No bagging no talking him up but his game overall.

Only a fool would argue his first three quarters were poor. But hey it seems theres plenty of them around.
That leaves the obvious question. was two goals enough to save his game and make it a good game.

This will be interesting.

Yes his first 3 quarters were ordinary.

And yes his two goals (and full 4th quarter) saved his game.

When the game was there to be won he stood up. You might even say his lift was one of the reasons we got over the line.

He's a B-C grade player and is paid accordingly. Need a dozen of these in any team.

Thank you as with most of your posts honesty and reason i wonder if you too will now cop the anger and vitriol because you werent positive enough for the flower sniffers.

[WilliamPowell]

..

Thank you as with most of your posts honesty and reason i wonder if you too will now cop the anger and vitriol because you werent positive enough for the flower sniffers.

He wont cop any anger because as you said he gives his honest opinion with reasons and more importantly doesn't find the need to include insults and name calling t posters who don't agree.

[WilliamPowell]

Yep.

I thought he would be on the fringe with Taranto and Hopper coming into the club.

I genuinely think he's got a stable spot because of injuries.

If we had more blokes on the park he would be out. Can only play so many blokes like this.

While understand your points Andyy I can't agree.

Why?

As part of my Membership we get extra benefits like pre-match briefings by the coaches and a mid season review. these are great because we get the explanations as to why players are playing in certain positions, what their roles are within the team structure and what the game plan is. They are a real eye opener

So based on what I've learnt from those I'd say he is lock in for our best 22

**and NO, I will not post about what we get told. I pay for the privilege of those benefits and we are asked not repeat

[Assange Tiger 😎]

He's been dropped before. Is his role this season now too important and no one else on the list can play it? That's not meant to be a snarky shot at you either, WP.

Just reckon there are a few too many blokes who play a 'role' and tend to play some absolute shockers or can't get a kick. Sometimes maybe they're nullifying which may explain a lack of disposals, but in a side that is 11th or something I reckon it's near on time to look at a way to get us back to the top 4. That may mean a change of personnel or different roles for players.

[Assange Tiger 😎]

Ok just two questions and it will be good to see who can be honest.

1/ Was his first three Quarters bloody ordinary.
2/ Did kicking two goals late save his game.

That is it in a nut shell. No bagging no talking him up but his game overall.

Only a fool would argue his first three quarters were poor. But hey it seems theres plenty of them around.
That leaves the obvious question. was two goals enough to save his game and make it a good game.

This will be interesting.

Yes his first 3 quarters were ordinary.

And yes his two goals (and full 4th quarter) saved his game.

When the game was there to be won he stood up. You might even say his lift was one of the reasons we got over the line.

He's a B-C grade player and is paid accordingly. Need a dozen of these in any team.

Yesssssssss

Andy the voice of reason finally

He’s a B-C guy .. IMO falls into the 20-28 area of the list

What annoys me is the rose coloured glasses from so many .. you would think he was a top 5-10 bloke the way some carry on

Yes he has a big heart .. yes he tries hard .. yes a great bloke and teammate .. yes he is a heart and soul type .. yes he tackles hard (often second to the ball) .. great trier

But

Slow as treacle
Average skills at best

Those two points is why he falls into the B-C range

But some can’t see it

The geniuses who call him a running machine .. he isn’t a winger .. he is an inside mid where burst speed is crucial, and he has none .. if he was a winger like a McIntosh, then being a “running machine” would be relevant .. and before any quote his “top speed”, completely irrelevant when you are a locomotive and take 10 metres to get rolling

I actually like Graham as a 20-28 bloke .. it’s the dreamers that frustrate me

For the sake of it
I will list 15 players I have ahead of him in no particular order that I believe are clear cut ahead of Graham

Dusty
Bolton
Taranto
Prestia
Lynch
Cotchin (yep, even now)
Baker
Vlastuin
Dan Rioli
Short
Balta
Hopper
Nank
Broad
Grimes

Don’t think anyone can argue with those 15

Then there is more I personally have ahead of him

McIntosh 
Pickett
Gibcus (I know it’s been a season lost)
Riewoldt (yep, even now)

Then we are at the 20-28 section and where I have him

Great post

It's the delusion his supporters have that poo me. No one has a personal issue with Jack Graham, from all reports he's a nice fella.

Call him slow? Well hang on, I personally clocked him running at 37.6ks per hour at training....
Don't think he had enough of the footy? You don't know his role   
Used it poorly and it's back up by statistics? Ner ner everyone had a bad game   
You reckon he should be upgraded on or not in our best 22 at full strength? Cumberland isn't a team player   

[Andyy]

Yep.

I thought he would be on the fringe with Taranto and Hopper coming into the club.

I genuinely think he's got a stable spot because of injuries.

If we had more blokes on the park he would be out. Can only play so many blokes like this.

While understand your points Andyy I can't agree.

Why?

As part of my Membership we get extra benefits like pre-match briefings by the coaches and a mid season review. these are great because we get the explanations as to why players are playing in certain positions, what their roles are within the team structure and what the game plan is. They are a real eye opener

So based on what I've learnt from those I'd say he is lock in for our best 22

**and NO, I will not post about what we get told. I pay for the privilege of those benefits and we are asked not repeat

Appreciate your input as always.

If Gibcus, Short and Lynch were available I wonder if Graham's spot would be in jeopardy.

Also think we should be playing Bauer forward given our need for KPF development so based on positions/roles I would consider him over Graham.

[WilliamPowell]

He's been dropped before. Is his role this season now too important and no one else on the list can play it? That's not meant to be a snarky shot at you either, WP.

Just reckon there are a few too many blokes who play a 'role' and tend to play some absolute shockers or can't get a kick. Sometimes maybe they're nullifying which may explain a lack of disposals, but in a side that is 11th or something I reckon it's near on time to look at a way to get us back to the top 4. That may mean a change of personnel or different roles for players.

Get your point AT but whether we agree or not and as you say for some blokes it isn't about possessions

Will confess it leaves me scratching my head at times too

But when we were winning flags for some blokes it wasn't about possessions then either

[Tiger Khosh]

Yep.

I thought he would be on the fringe with Taranto and Hopper coming into the club.

I genuinely think he's got a stable spot because of injuries.

If we had more blokes on the park he would be out. Can only play so many blokes like this.

While understand your points Andyy I can't agree.

Why?

As part of my Membership we get extra benefits like pre-match briefings by the coaches and a mid season review. these are great because we get the explanations as to why players are playing in certain positions, what their roles are within the team structure and what the game plan is. They are a real eye opener

So based on what I've learnt from those I'd say he is lock in for our best 22

**and NO, I will not post about what we get told. I pay for the privilege of those benefits and we are asked not repeat

Appreciate your input as always.

If Gibcus, Short and Lynch were available I wonder if Graham's spot would be in jeopardy.

Also think we should be playing Bauer forward given our need for KPF development so based on positions/roles I would consider him over Graham.

I don’t think he’s only got a stable spot because of injuries. The only players who you would consider best 22/23 on our injury list atm are really short, lynch, Gibcus and maybe Tarrant. That’s 1 half back flanker and 3 key position players who even if they were healthy wouldn’t come in at the expense of graham. Maybe you could argue lynch could as he’d need to take someone’s spot in the fwd line and I very much doubt it would be jacks.

Coaches clearly like what he brings to the table as much as a lot of us (myself included) don’t always agree with. At the start of the season I had him as 23rd man so agree he’s probably in that 18-24, don’t think I’d go as far as 28 lol.

[WilliamPowell]

Great post

It's the delusion his supporters have that poo me. No one has a personal issue with Jack Graham, from all reports he's a nice fella.

Call him slow? Well hang on, I personally clocked him running at 37.6ks per hour at training....
Don't think he had enough of the footy? You don't know his role   
Used it poorly and it's back up by statistics? Ner ner everyone had a bad game   
You reckon he should be upgraded on or not in our best 22 at full strength? Cumberland isn't a team player   

This is a very good post and I reckon you've hit a proverbial nail with it

I've been wondering if some of the comments have been more to do with folks being frustrated with people's view on said player than the players actual performance at times. 

Reason I say this is because (and last week was a perfect example) it seems that it doesn't matter what a player does sometimes they are getting pummeled for their performance no matter what and that seems to fire people up to try and get a response out of the those who either see the good (only) or see both good and bad.

Noah Cumberland is another one who has faced the same during the course of the season...

The recent posts by both Damo and Andyy have been excellent, clear reasoning with thier opinion. quality posting right there! No insults

As I said in my reply to Andyy I don't necessarily agree with his view but respect it

And BTW AT, you are correct Jack Graham is very nice bloke, spoke to him and a number of others at last night's PLayer Sponsors dinner