Samson Ryan [merged]

[Knighter]

I think FJ is one of the greatest recruiters of all time - he built a list at a time when 2 new teams came into the competition with free agency also introduced and it was freely admitted at the time it was the worst times to bottom out.

I wasn’t a fan of his 10 years ago but the facts are the facts.

Way too many 1st round misses for me to declare him one of the best.

1. R Conca
2. B Lennon
3. C Ellis
4. T Vickery
5. JON
6. Even RCD has a massive question mark.

He used to fall in luv with a player and then get blinkers on.

His rookie list drafting has been fantastic and no doubt since Clarke and Hartley came in things have improved a lot.  But you can't miss that many 1st rounders considering the quality of players taken immediately after and be successful.

[the claw]

As long as it wasn’t FJ’s choice, I’m happy.

As long as it wasn’t FJ’s choice, I’m happy.

“Betamax” liked his highlights package. 

Not happy with all of FJ's chocie over the years I assume

So not happy with

Lambert
McIntosh
Rance
Grimes
Martin
Cotchin
Baker
Riewoldt
Edwards
Castagna
Bolton
Broad

to name but 12

Or don't they count?

Yes there are misses

But a lot of hits....too

Bolton.... is a FJ massive hit don't you think? 

My point before the whacks and attacks come is:

Not disputing the misses but when I look at the blokes who have run out and won us 3 flags in 4 years most of them were recruited under FJ's watch.

We can't sit here and bash him and him alone for the misses and not give him any credit for the ones that have worked out in spades.

Lol at the perspective that people portray.

Jacksons haul up to 2016 when he was demoted is underwhelming. Fmd 11 12 yrs in charge  that is depending on if the apologists reute he was responsible for 2005  how many late and rookie picks did we manage in his time in charge.

Tiger supporters love rewriting history especially when it comes to one of their own.

[the claw]

A spare ruck given we have nank soldo Chol and Miller. And given we often play a short ruckman like Grigg.

Yeah doubt he'd be playing senior footy next year unless all those blokes went down at the same time ...could well be the next NicNat.... but right now it seems a  bit of a baffling choice to me...

We dont see eye to eye too often but i agree with this.

As a ruckman this kid looks a decent prospect but why another ruckman.

Dont believe in trading out of first rounds thats a return to the bad old days. Have to say Geelong looked over the moon with the kid they got with 20 and there was still some real good kids there that i liked.
One of those kids was still there at 40 and went the pick after we took Ryan. Time will now tell if we got both decisions right im inclined to think not.

People say there was little known about a lot of the boys in the draft and it was shallow but that doesnt mean there was no talent in the draft th ere was plenty and we opted out.

[camboon]

I think FJ needed assistance of Blair and Balmey etc to give a balanced  view
He doesn’t make the decisions on his own and when he did , had too much of a focus on the same type of player
No one should Doubt FJ,s passion for the Tigers or that Richmond is better at recruiting in the last few years since it has invested in recruitment

[wayne]

If we can turn Soldo into a premiership ruck, I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do with Samson

[georgies31]

When you look at it Francis Jackson delievered 80% of our premiership list he sure did have a few busts , but hey what recruiter doesn't.

[big tone]

I openly can’t stand FJ, but realistically he hasn’t been in charge for about 5 years- right about the time when we starting coming good. 

Cotch and Dusty picked themselves at picks 2 and 3.... hard to argue with that even with hindsight....

Getting a few picks here and there right gets you some good players, and even some star players, we have always had “some” good players, but to win premierships you need to put together a list of very good players all pushing each other- like we have now and didn’t when FJ was in charge.

Every club has star players, it’s who you put them with that wins premierships.

Old Blair Hartley used to get a fair bashing on here from some, but not so much anymore.
I would say he has done an amazing job keeping the players we wanted to keep, together...

[big tone]

Just on Samson Ryan, looks a good kid.
Very athletic and doesn’t seem to be a lumbering type of ruckman
A very nice kick style too.

Anyone see a bit of Brodie Grundy in him?

[RedanTiger]

Yes there are misses

But a lot of hits....too

We can't sit here and bash him and him alone for the misses and not give him any credit for the ones that have worked out in spades.

What a perfect example of double-talk.
You say to judge him on all but only list the wins. Nice.

[Tigeritis™©®]

I openly can’t stand FJ, but realistically he hasn’t been in charge for about 5 years- right about the time when we starting coming good. 

Cotch and Dusty picked themselves at picks 2 and 3.... hard to argue with that even with hindsight....

Getting a few picks here and there right gets you some good players, and even some star players, we have always had “some” good players, but to win premierships you need to put together a list of very good players all pushing each other- like we have now and didn’t when FJ was in charge.

Every club has star players, it’s who you put them with that wins premierships.

Old Blair Hartley used to get a fair bashing on here from some, but not so much anymore.
I would say he has done an amazing job keeping the players we wanted to keep, together...

Great post BT   

I do think, we can all agree, he is better than the recruiter at Melbourne.   

[WilliamPowell]

What a perfect example of double-talk.
You say to judge him on all but only list the wins. Nice.

You missed my point. Nice

No double talk.

So I will try and make it again and hopefully it is clear for you.

I listed hits ONLY because when the majority talk about FJ they bang on about misses ONLY and point their collective fingers of blame for said misses ONLY at FJ not any other person in recruiting.

But at the same time the same folks when they speak of the hits heap praise on every person in recruiting except FJ.

So based on the very common rating system of many posters I've highlighted above a doube standard rather than double talk, applies. Hits are graded as "brilliant" and a collective recruiting team effort minus one and misses are the fault of just one person.

So my point was and remains if you are going to grade people on performance you grade their entire performance which means hits and misses not just misses.

That's why I listed hits only to a try and make that point. Because it is clear it is easier to bash a bloke and refuse to give him any credit for anything. But facts are not all his selections are misses, many have proven to be hits.

[RedanTiger]

I listed hits ONLY because when the majority talk about FJ they bang on about misses ONLY and point their collective fingers of blame for said misses ONLY at FJ not any other person in recruiting.

But at the same time the same folks when they speak of the hits heap praise on every person in recruiting except FJ.

Okay.
I accept your "team effort" to a degree but the point has to be made that the Lead Recruiter, Jackson, is most responsible for the choices at the top of the drat list.

When Luke Williams came to us in 2014 I think he was very responsible for the LOWER picks ie the Rookies.
2014 Senior C Ellis, Menadue, Drummond, Butler, McKenzie. Rookie Short, Castagna, Lambert, Arnot, Soldo.

If you say that Jackson has no responsibility for 2005 as a part-timer, when we took JON, Hughes, Casserly, White, GRaham, Humm and Howatt then he is MAINLY (as the head recruiter) for the picks from 2006 to 2016 when Clarke took over. https://www.afl.com.au/news/148183/who-makes-the-calls-on-your-clubs-recruits from 2017.

Note in that story that Jackson was working on "Future picks" and that we had 10 part-time scouts.
I have a Jackson interview from years ago where he said he did not like a lot of scouts because they caused confusion with too many opinions.

2006 - Riewoldt, Edwards then 6 fails.  Note we got Jack after trading down to get Polak. A huge gamble we lucked out on.
2007 - Cotchin, Rance then 8 fails. As said before Cotchin was a gimme and Rance was AA.
2008 - Nothing. Headed by Vickery, Post and Hislop.
2009 - Martin, Astbury and Grimes then 10 fails including rookied Polak. Martin was a gimme and the other 2 have become great after a long time of criticism.
2010 - Houli as PSD and Grigg as a trade and 9 fails headed by Conca.
2011 - Nothing but Maric and Morris as trades.
2012 - Vlastuin and McIntosh as first picks then 9 fails led by an Edwards trade.
2013 - Nothing headed by Lennon at pick 12.
2014 - Little headed by B Ellis but as said we got Short, Castagna, Lambert and Soldo in the Rookie
2015 - Rioli, Broad and Chol with Markov the best of 5 fails.
2016 - Huge gains of Bolton, Graham, Garthwaite, Prestia, Caddy and Nankervis with only Stengle as a fail.

Under Clarke:
2017 - Only Higgins so far and that was not due to form but circumstances. CCJ, Balta, Naish, Miller and Baker all look long term.
2018 - Turner, English, Townsend and Weller out but the rest look good led by RCD and Ross and the traded Lynch.   

Bolded are your 12 but note Baker was in 2017 when Jackson was in Future picks.

Thats a pretty full account with both wins AND fails.

[Owl]

Why is this even a thing when we got 3 friggen flags right now and looking sweet for the foreseeable? It could of been four if not for a little wobble in the dice.  Screw all that noise, bask in the sun while we have it, we know it will go to poo eventually, but bloody hell...

[Andyy]

Have many clubs done better than us with their drafting?

[Tigeritis™©®]

I listed hits ONLY because when the majority talk about FJ they bang on about misses ONLY and point their collective fingers of blame for said misses ONLY at FJ not any other person in recruiting.

But at the same time the same folks when they speak of the hits heap praise on every person in recruiting except FJ.

Okay.
I accept your "team effort" to a degree but the point has to be made that the Lead Recruiter, Jackson, is most responsible for the choices at the top of the drat list.

When Luke Williams came to us in 2014 I think he was very responsible for the LOWER picks ie the Rookies.
2014 Senior C Ellis, Menadue, Drummond, Butler, McKenzie. Rookie Short, Castagna, Lambert, Arnot, Soldo.

If you say that Jackson has no responsibility for 2005 as a part-timer, when we took JON, Hughes, Casserly, White, GRaham, Humm and Howatt then he is MAINLY (as the head recruiter) for the picks from 2006 to 2016 when Clarke took over. https://www.afl.com.au/news/148183/who-makes-the-calls-on-your-clubs-recruits from 2017.

Note in that story that Jackson was working on "Future picks" and that we had 10 part-time scouts.
I have a Jackson interview from years ago where he said he did not like a lot of scouts because they caused confusion with too many opinions.

2006 - Riewoldt, Edwards then 6 fails.  Note we got Jack after trading down to get Polak. A huge gamble we lucked out on.
2007 - Cotchin, Rance then 8 fails. As said before Cotchin was a gimme and Rance was AA.
2008 - Nothing. Headed by Vickery, Post and Hislop.
2009 - Martin, Astbury and Grimes then 10 fails including rookied Polak. Martin was a gimme and the other 2 have become great after a long time of criticism.
2010 - Houli as PSD and Grigg as a trade and 9 fails headed by Conca.
2011 - Nothing but Maric and Morris as trades.
2012 - Vlastuin and McIntosh as first picks then 9 fails led by an Edwards trade.
2013 - Nothing headed by Lennon at pick 12.
2014 - Little headed by B Ellis but as said we got Short, Castagna, Lambert and Soldo in the Rookie
2015 - Rioli, Broad and Chol with Markov the best of 5 fails.
2016 - Huge gains of Bolton, Graham, Garthwaite, Prestia, Caddy and Nankervis with only Stengle as a fail.

Under Clarke:
2017 - Only Higgins so far and that was not due to form but circumstances. CCJ, Balta, Naish, Miller and Baker all look long term.
2018 - Turner, English, Townsend and Weller out but the rest look good led by RCD and Ross and the traded Lynch.   

Bolded are your 12 but note Baker was in 2017 when Jackson was in Future picks.

Thats a pretty full account with both wins AND fails.

Excellent summation RT.
I would only of added some of the glaring misses (in hindsight) but it only highlights his lack of awareness of what’s required for a quality pick - Missing big bodied quality midfielders like Fyfe for Angus Graham and thinking Lennon was a better prospect than Cripps only highlights how clueless he is (and other recruiters having overlooking them doesn’t justify him missing them either because they either didn’t need midfielders or they are just as clueless as he is)

But Let’s all applaud him for getting a handful of top 10 picks correct