VFL R22: Richmond vs Frankston @ Punt Rd, Sat. Aug. 20

[one-eyed]

Unlike their seniors, Collingwood's ressies had nothing to play for as they were safe and couldn't make top 4. They played like it.

Our VFL side has only got themselves to blame. Not just for dreadful goalkicking yesterday that cost us a chunk of percentage but also for losing that home game in the last minute against Collingwood six weeks ago. Ultimately that game cost our VFL side finals. It was the difference between 5th and 9th.

[Rampsation]

I feel Kane Lambert should coach the VFL and assist at Senior level. Ben Rutten should come back as our defensive coach. Hed do wonders for Gibcus and Balta.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Our development has suffered from our cuts and it’s really telling considering how far backwards we have gone in that regard. 

We should never skimp on our investment in development.

Hopefully we can utilise some of our retirees in our development program. It’s as important as recruiting and you could probably make a case that it’s the most important element.

Other clubs ie. Sydney, Geelong can invest but for some reason we aren’t allowed to spend money on our footy department 

[georgies31]

Not sure what the criticism for don't forget the we loss 4 quality players to our seniors Sonsie , Cumberland , Miller and Rioli how can you say they haven't developed well Morris not doing his job ?. Banks , Clarke  ,Ryan and Bauer looking good to.

[mightytiges]

Geelong's VFL team finished 16th with just 7 wins. The Cats rarely now develop their own young draftees (De Koning and Holmes aside). They poach instead for ready-made experience and the quickest impact at AFL level be it older players from other AFL clubs or 20-something state league players like Atkins and Close.

As for the Swans, they have had their academy which has handed them guys like Heeney, Mills, Gulden and co. on the cheap. Also while we were going back-to-back in the AFL, they spent those two years in the bottom 4 hitting the draft before rising again.

[Tigeritis™©®]

So the Essendrug now have to pay out Rutten 600k does that come out of the soft cap?

Hawks had to pay Clarkson 1 million does that come out of their soft cap?





………but we can’t spend any more money because soft cap space and penalties   

[mightytiges]

So the Essendrug now have to pay out Rutten 600k does that come out of the soft cap?

Hawks had to pay Clarkson 1 million does that come out of their soft cap?


………but we can’t spend any more money because soft cap space and penalties   

Hawthorn are paying $50k in tax for exceeding the soft cap for that Clarkson payout and have had to spread his payout over two years so it wasn't in one hit. So it will affect next year as well.

There was talk a week or so ago that Essendon would be paying that tax too if Rutten goes. They're a rabble anyway.

They're both bottom clubs that will have long rebuilds so hardly examples for us to copy. On the other hand, we're still making and playing finals at AFL level while regenerating on the run and bringing in 5 cubs in one year into our AFL team (Miller, Gibcus, Sonsie, Cumberland & Maurice). 

[WilliamPowell]

So the Essendrug now have to pay out Rutten 600k does that come out of the soft cap?

I'll ignore you continually trolling and clear baiting of me regarding the soft cap 

But in answer to your question

Yes any payout to Rutten and any other contracted coach at Essendon will come out of their soft cap

Their new president has already said they will pay the soft cap tax if needed. 6 days into the job and he is happily tearing a club apart without considering the ramifications. He's clearly got a "Focus on Footy" 

[mightytiges]

Their new president has already said they will pay the soft cap tax if needed. 6 days into the job and he is happily tearing a club apart without considering the ramifications. He's clearly got a "Focus on Footy" 

It would be hilarious if their "external review" comes back and says Rutten wasn't the problem lol.

[Tigeritis™©®]

So the Essendrug now have to pay out Rutten 600k does that come out of the soft cap?

Hawks had to pay Clarkson 1 million does that come out of their soft cap?


………but we can’t spend any more money because soft cap space and penalties   

Hawthorn are paying $50k in tax for exceeding the soft cap for that Clarkson payout and have had to spread his payout over two years so it wasn't in one hit. So it will affect next year as well.

There was talk a week or so ago that Essendon would be paying that tax too if Rutten goes. They're a rabble anyway.

They're both bottom clubs that will have long rebuilds so hardly examples for us to copy. On the other hand, we're still making and playing finals at AFL level while regenerating on the run and bringing in 5 cubs in one year into our AFL team (Miller, Gibcus, Sonsie, Cumberland & Maurice).

50k tax?  Whoopee doo da.
Norf too has sacked a coach and have spent big bucks on Clarkson.


You blokes make it seem like it’s worse thing that in the world could happen

If you want good people pay for them. We aren’t a minor club we are a powerhouse with the biggest membership in the AFL.

Yet if we want to skimp on development it will be an issue eventually, let’s not let it happen and spend the money required for an excellent development program and if we spend too much so be it.

Also we should be investing more in the AFLW, have we committed to a VFLW team yet?

[Andyy]

Dons and Hawks aren't exactly doing very well compared to us.

Seems our kids are coming good too.

[Broadsword]

I don't think we want to go down the route of frivolous, carefree spending ("to hell with the consequences, spend the cash!") when in historical terms we have only just got our books balanced and business profitable. Before we were successful on-field they had to restore performance off-field, and that began by going cap in hand to members for hard cash to pay off the debt.

I don't mind good financial governance.

[Tigeritis™©®]

I don't think we want to go down the route of frivolous, carefree spending ("to hell with the consequences, spend the cash!") when in historical terms we have only just got our books balanced and business profitable. Before we were successful on-field they had to restore performance off-field, and that began by going cap in hand to members for hard cash to pay off the debt.

I don't mind good financial governance.

Well exactly my point. We weren’t known for excellent financial management when Graeme Richmond and co were willing to do anything to get the players he wanted.

Post salary cap we as you have correctly pointed out a basket case and we all had to do our bit to raise money to keep our club going.

Since Gale we are now in a great financial position and we are back to being a greatest club in the land.

What I’m saying is that it won’t end well if we don’t invest more in development and if that means spending more now whilst cuts have been made to the soft cap even if there are penalties involved isn’t the end of the world now (lesser clubs don’t seem to be worried that about it) considering our financial position is very strong unlike it was in the ‘80’s.
For that reason we shouldn’t be skimping on our development program and spend the necessary money so we don’t find out in the next four or five years it’s too late.
A fine hear and there isn’t as big of a deal as it would have been when say Plow was coach.

[Broadsword]

I don't think we want to go down the route of frivolous, carefree spending ("to hell with the consequences, spend the cash!") when in historical terms we have only just got our books balanced and business profitable. Before we were successful on-field they had to restore performance off-field, and that began by going cap in hand to members for hard cash to pay off the debt.

I don't mind good financial governance.

Well exactly my point. We weren’t known for excellent financial management when Graeme Richmond and co were willing to do anything to get the players he wanted.

Post salary cap we as you have correctly pointed out a basket case and we all had to do our bit to raise money to keep our club going.

Since Gale we are now in a great financial position and we are back to being a greatest club in the land.

What I’m saying is that it won’t end well if we don’t invest more in development and if that means spending more now whilst cuts have been made to the soft cap even if there are penalties involved isn’t the end of the world now (lesser clubs don’t seem to be worried that about it) considering our financial position is very strong unlike it was in the ‘80’s.
For that reason we shouldn’t be skimping on our development program and spend the necessary money so we don’t find out in the next four or five years it’s too late.
A fine hear and there isn’t as big of a deal as it would have been when say Plow was coach.

I know what you're saying, but I take a longer term view, and I also think it's easy to misinterpret a perfectly natural post-dynasty decline (a simple result of lesser draft talent coming through) as mismanagement and a lack of conviction. If we have proved anything to ourselves since 2010, it's that premierships come with hard work, not quick fixes, instability, and rash spending. I would liken 'paying the fine' with going into overdraft and being happy to pay penalty rates for quick access to costly cash. I just don't think it sets a good example for every other facet of the football club. I'm really proud--tremendously proud--of our on-field success, but I'm quietly proud of our off-field governance, administration, and management. I'm not interested in throwing that away, which is to say: I don't see paying penalty rates as a 'shrewd investment' in any way, shape, or form.

peeing away cash straight into the AFL coffers is a Hird back to Essendon move for me. Not nearly patient enough. I put my trust in B. Gale and the rest of the executive. They've earned it.

[Andyy]

Agreed Broad.

Also think we have good talent coming through and solid young players that I can see playing for years to come.

This year alone we have seen plenty to be excited about from:
Sonsie
Cumberland
Gibcus
Miller
MRJ

Promising signs, improvement or generally worth keeping from:
Ralph
Clarke
Dow I think another year
RCD I'd go another year
Banks & Brown apparently not too bad in the Magoo's
Ryan going OK
Biggie not bad/good depth.