Carlton-Judd threads [merged]

[Tigermonk]

Carlton tanked Richmond tanked everyone know that & the importance of the draft pick to be a bargaining tool is worth millions to a club
But people are forgetting Judd aint got players at Carlton around him the same aquivelant as West Coast in Cox, Kerr, Cousins, Embley, Fletcher, Braun, Selwood, & whoever l missed so the preasure to astain being the top player is greater on him + his got a different coach l dont see ratten as very smart compared to Worsfold
Judd will be half the dominant player at Carlton just wait & see teams will be able to tag him easier because its very hard to tag all them West Coast players with Judd in there side you need 6 champion runners to take Cousins Kerr Judd Embley Braun & Fletcher & not many sides have that capacity of running players who can match champions
West Coast fit is unstopable & season 2007 they were very hurt with injuries
Judd is a champion & has played his best years his even smarter to comeback to Victoria when he can pull the best money in football when he knows his past his best regardless how he plays at Carlton his won everything already l'm sure now that his got his pricetag that he couldnot give a toss how he goes for the rest of his future because his secure if Carlton get rid of him 5 years down the track his still a champion but a very rich one at that
Judd might just be the next Hird, Voss, Buckley, Recciuto that are carried through the rest of thier careers with injuries
The draft must be changed cause its not working for the teams that really need it
If the coaches are saying teams are tanking they would surely know by they way they coached against the side previously
Roos has also stated this that Carlton are cheats but its worked for them & Demitrou & Anderson are letting it happen
regardless Judd cut us out he never wanted to be a Richmond player so Miller done his job for Richmond in trying his best
Carlton players will turn against Judd because his being paid more than others think his worth & players will leave his future of being a champion & play finals may never be the same again 

[mjs]

Tigermonk

Don't forget that Murphy has been getting the best tagger and they get Stevens back.

The other players didn't seem to mind Couta getting similar money - if he delivers they won't give a hoot.

[Passionfruit]

I reckon Murphy is a gun.
Stevens back, they will be deadly at centre clearances.
Wait and see!

[Tigermonk]

I reckon Murphy is a gun.
Stevens back, they will be deadly at centre clearances.
Wait and see!

Stevens won't be the same he be worried about his neck & Murphy l agree

[mjs]

But Carlton and Judd are understood to have discussed cutting Richmond out of the market with a first-year price tag of up to $2 million for the 2004 Brownlow medallist, if the Eagles and Tigers struck a deal.


Can anyone explain to me how this could work?

If Judd put $2m on his head for year one and Richmond passed, Carlton would have to put that $2m against his name for next year - how could they then pay the other players?

Both teams have the same salary cap. It's not a question of who has the deepest pockets nor Carlton actually paying him less - the whole $2m goes against his name. Neil Balme stated that anything above 1.2m to one player makes it virtually impossible to run your football department.

I'm still thinking about this.

Judd would have to have burnt WC for this to happen. Would he really do this? He wanted to leave the club on good terms, he has to go back for re-unions etc. Could you imagine the public outcry - his image would be forever tarnished. Stevens gets mentioned every year, imagine if Judd did it. Every time he touched the ball he'd get booed, Carlton would be attacked from every corner of the country, the AFL would be forced to take a stand etc etc.

No - it's garbage.

[mjs]

How the hell did they get Richard Hadlee - he was very good before he got injured.

See where Mathews is not impressed - they've carried him for two years, he gets fit and says seeyalater.

[mightytiges]

But Carlton and Judd are understood to have discussed cutting Richmond out of the market with a first-year price tag of up to $2 million for the 2004 Brownlow medallist, if the Eagles and Tigers struck a deal.


Can anyone explain to me how this could work?

If Judd put $2m on his head for year one and Richmond passed, Carlton would have to put that $2m against his name for next year - how could they then pay the other players?

Both teams have the same salary cap. It's not a question of who has the deepest pockets nor Carlton actually paying him less - the whole $2m goes against his name. Neil Balme stated that anything above 1.2m to one player makes it virtually impossible to run your football department.

I'm also keen to find out whether we ever discussed a deal with Carlton to take pick 3 and pass on Judd in the pre-season. Patrick Smith still claiming this in today's paper. I hope we didn't.

With Kouta, Lappin and Whitnall now gone, Carlton probably opened up enough salary cap space to pay $2m for the first year. As Judd, his manager and Carlton were colluding, Judd could agree to accepting "only" the remainder of his existing deal in the last 4 years so it wouldn't cost the Blues anymore. It's really tampering with the draft but as the Eagles caved it never got to that stage and the Blues go their man via a trade.

One question is going to be how the treatment of Kennedy will affect the Carlton players. Will there be any resentment or team disharmony?!

[mjs]

I think the AFL stopped this trick after we did it with Gasper against the Dees 

I still have faith in what Balme said on SEN - any more that 1.2m for any one player makes it virtually impossible to operate. If it locked out Richmond it locked out Carlton.

[mightytiges]

It was more a bluff than anything else but West Coast caved in.

I think the AFL stopped this trick after we did it with Gasper against the Dees 

When was that mjs? I remember Freo offering Gas $700k per year in 2001 even though it would have put them over the salary cap.

[one-eyed]

Incidentally, Judd in turn appears on the verge of a deal with Pratt's Visy Board to become an environmental spokesman in another handy new partnership.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/carlton-looks-like-the-old-dark-navy-blues/2007/10/13/1191696241790.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

 

[mjs]

It was more a bluff than anything else but West Coast caved in.

I think the AFL stopped this trick after we did it with Gasper against the Dees 

When was that mjs? I remember Freo offering Gas $700k per year in 2001 even though it would have put them over the salary cap.

We got Gasper from Sydney in a pre-season draft and Melbourne had the pick before us. Gasper put a figure on his salary that Melbourne wouldn't pay and we took him - I think we didn't actually have to pay what he asked.

I heard this on SEN from Brian Waldren who went on to say that the AFL had then changed the rules.

On a different subject - from today's Age

" Buddy Franklin kicks goals on the field but off it he has some bad habits. Just ask Crown Casino waiters who were unlucky enough to work at Hawthorn's best and fairest last Saturday night. Franklin, described by our witness as "off his face" took a dislike to the chicken dinner and emptied his entire plate on the floor under the table.
His tean mates weren't impressed, let alone the unfortunate staff and embarassed sponsors"

Oh dear. I kinew there was another reason why we didn't take him 

[mightytiges]

We got Gasper from Sydney in a pre-season draft and Melbourne had the pick before us. Gasper put a figure on his salary that Melbourne wouldn't pay and we took him - I think we didn't actually have to pay what he asked.

I heard this on SEN from Brian Waldren who went on to say that the AFL had then changed the rules.

Cheers mjs. I rememeber that now. That pick was a compensatory pick for losing Maxfield to Sydney. 

[{X}]

i have a conspiracy theory.

imo, i belive judd told the wce, to go with the trade and cave in or he would open up a "can of worms"

just my opinion , but  have a gut feeling judd held the eagles for ransom

[DallasCrane]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22587275-11088,00.html

RICHMOND football manager Greg Miller has questioned West Coast's decision to reject his club's bid for Chris Judd in favour of a lesser one from Carlton.

Miller, who said the Brownlow medallist was worth the Blues’ No. 1 pick, said he thought the Tigers were still in the running for Judd as late last Tuesday afternoon, two days before the Carlton deal was done .

On the day the club rolled out its latest recruit,  Jordan McMahon from the Western Bulldogs, Miller also refused to rule out a move for sacked former Carlton captain Lance Whitnall.

He said it would be the decsion of Tigers coach Terry Wallace.

"The pre-season draft is about the players that he (Wallace) chooses," Miller said.

"The senior coach will determine once the national draft is finished who is the best available player to help our list."

On the Judd trade, Miller said Carlton's offer of young West Australian-born forward Josh Kennedy was the clincher, despite Richmond offering better picks in return for the former Eagles captain's services.

"I thought Chris Judd was certainly worth choice one in the trade period,” Miller said today.

“I think Carlton’s done a pretty handy job getting him for choice three and choice 20 and a player.

"Our offer was there . . . choice two and two other choices.

“I’ve no doubt that if a deal had have gone through that Chris Judd would have been fine to play with the football club.

“His manager was talking the talk as he needed to do to get his player to Carlton.”

[one-eyed]

Tigers gave Judd deal their best shot
2:44 PM Mon 15 October, 2007
By Jason Phelan
for richmondfc.com.au

RICHMOND director of football, Greg Miller, has assured supporters that the Tigers left no stone unturned in their audacious last-ditch bid to secure Chris Judd during trade week.

Miller was confident on Tuesday of the exchange period that his offer of the second overall pick with two other selections, reported to be picks 18 and 19, would get the job done. But he was dismayed when the Eagles went for what he felt was a clearly inferior offer from the Blues.

While not entirely happy with the way the whole saga unfolded, Miller wasn’t about to call for an AFL investigation into the deal.

“I’m not suggesting that at all. I’m saying that it’s important that Richmond people know that we gave it our best shot,” Miller said from the club’s Punt Road headquarters on Monday.

“I just thought that Chris Judd was certainly worth choice one in the trade period; I think Carlton’s done a pretty handy job getting him for choice three, choice 20 and a player. As everyone knows, we were [offering] choice two and two other choices.

“I think the decision came from the top and that’s their prerogative. We were out of the loop then, we just put our position and Carlton put theirs and Josh Kennedy obviously made an impression when he went over there and made the difference.

“That was their prerogative but we saw it differently and I’m not sure that their footy department didn’t see it differently either.”

Richmond was not in Judd’s initial group of preferred clubs - Essendon, Collingwood, Melbourne and Carlton - but Miller was confident of turning around the superstar’s thinking on the issue if his bid had been successful.

“I’ve got no doubt that, if the deal had of gone through, Chris Judd would have been fine to play with the Richmond Football Club,” he said.

“His manager was talking the talk, as he needed to do to get his player to Carlton, but there wasn’t going to be an issue if the Eagles traded with us that wouldn’t have seen him be okay through the pre-season.”

Despite losing out to the Blues in the race for Judd’s signature, Miller said the busy exchange period, which saw the club snare ex-Bulldog Jordan McMahon and former Eagle Mitch Morton, had taken the steam out of the push for free agency.

“I think it’s important for the AFL that the trade period stands up,” he said.

“We all know there’s been a strong push from the players’ association to introduce free agency, but I’m not sure any of the clubs really want free agency. It’s important the trade period worked, I think it has, I think Chris Judd got to where he wanted to go.

“I think 20 players have moved around in the system so that defeats a lot of the players’ association arguments.”

http://richmondfc.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArticle/tabid/6301/Default.aspx?newsId=52493