Author Topic: GC17, West Sydney - Need to go for top kids in next 2 drafts or we won't get any  (Read 13943 times)

Offline WA Tiger

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Fair enough smokey with most of your comments... but.. ;) I am not sure the draft willl run that deep this year with most of the picks going to the GC17 that there will be much left for us to show due diligence. Really, many on this forum whinged and are still whinging about us picking up players like Hicks, Whestoff, skinny players, ect... and I am afraid thats all that is going to be left, so get ready for more whinging. The future is this years draft and this year we need to try and change or at least be remunirated for future picks as a result of the new teams coming in. That is not looking in the past this is our future. Regardless of whether the AFL will or will not award us compensation we must try.

Good debate WAT.  I really don't subscribe to the "draft runs deep" theory at any point.  I think that there are just as many good players available at any point in every draft - the skill is in the research you do and the luck of the draw on draft day itself.  Have a look at how many great players get picked up much further down than the top half dozen every single year.  To be honest, I reckon that once you go past the first 3 or 4 then you have just as much chance of picking up a good player at any pick.  If you look at Geelong's current side then many of them were late draft picks - they were picked after others that have since moved on.  What Geelong got right was doing the research and playing the numbers - law of averages says if you do your homework and back your judgment then X players out of Y picks will make it.  It's an unforgiving science in trying to unearth gems with almost every pick you get and that's why I think we are only just starting to get a decent return for our efforts - it is an area we were very badly under resourced and inept in for many years.  We need to keep funding and working on this critical area if we are really serious about catching and mixing it with the big boys.  Sitting on our hands and begging for handouts will not fix what's wrong.

Yeah it is a good debate, makes a change..... ;D, I 100% agree with your entire post except... ;) for your last sentence. If we look back over the drafts then yes some of the best players that have played the game were picked up late in the draft. Kemp, Matera just about the whole 92 & 94 Eagles premiership sides. Actually the Eagles were the only side to have won a GF with a number one drfat pick in their side with Drew Banfield until the Hawks did it with Hodge. So that does go to show that the number one draft picks are a bit overated, sometimes.

The other thing is though, do we have the recruiters or even recruiting staff to find these players deep in the draft, history would say no, but we have added additional recruiting personnel this year so that may help. Lets just hope they have been out there since last year looking for the talent.

As for your last sentence, I don't believe we would be seen as begging, I think many would see it as justifiable compensation, but that is the one point we will have to agree to dissagree on.. :thumbsup
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“We are really excited about what we have brought in. We have got great depth of players that can take us where we need to go. We are just putting some cream on the top at the moment,” he said.

"Rucks:
Shaun Hampson is the No.1 man"

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If we leave this year with 2 young stars and a ruckman from another club thats half decent then we would have done well. Specifically we need another forward- preferably over the 190 and a midfielder with abit of class!

Offline mightytiges

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If we leave this year with 2 young stars and a ruckman from another club thats half decent then we would have done well. Specifically we need another forward- preferably over the 190 and a midfielder with abit of class!
A chance Darling or Sam Day could be available at pick 4 as far as KPPs.

As far as decent ruckman from another club the going rate seems to be second round pick  :-\. If we received a PP? we would have two 2nd rounders - picks 27 and 28. Do we rate all of the Blues' ruckmen as decent and look for one who may be looking for more gametime?
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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Fair enough smokey with most of your comments... but.. ;) I am not sure the draft willl run that deep this year with most of the picks going to the GC17 that there will be much left for us to show due diligence. Really, many on this forum whinged and are still whinging about us picking up players like Hicks, Whestoff, skinny players, ect... and I am afraid thats all that is going to be left, so get ready for more whinging. The future is this years draft and this year we need to try and change or at least be remunirated for future picks as a result of the new teams coming in. That is not looking in the past this is our future. Regardless of whether the AFL will or will not award us compensation we must try.

Good debate WAT.  I really don't subscribe to the "draft runs deep" theory at any point.  I think that there are just as many good players available at any point in every draft - the skill is in the research you do and the luck of the draw on draft day itself.  Have a look at how many great players get picked up much further down than the top half dozen every single year.  To be honest, I reckon that once you go past the first 3 or 4 then you have just as much chance of picking up a good player at any pick.  If you look at Geelong's current side then many of them were late draft picks - they were picked after others that have since moved on.  What Geelong got right was doing the research and playing the numbers - law of averages says if you do your homework and back your judgment then X players out of Y picks will make it.  It's an unforgiving science in trying to unearth gems with almost every pick you get and that's why I think we are only just starting to get a decent return for our efforts - it is an area we were very badly under resourced and inept in for many years.  We need to keep funding and working on this critical area if we are really serious about catching and mixing it with the big boys.  Sitting on our hands and begging for handouts will not fix what's wrong.

Yeah it is a good debate, makes a change..... ;D, I 100% agree with your entire post except... ;) for your last sentence. If we look back over the drafts then yes some of the best players that have played the game were picked up late in the draft. Kemp, Matera just about the whole 92 & 94 Eagles premiership sides. Actually the Eagles were the only side to have won a GF with a number one drfat pick in their side with Drew Banfield until the Hawks did it with Hodge. So that does go to show that the number one draft picks are a bit overated, sometimes.

The other thing is though, do we have the recruiters or even recruiting staff to find these players deep in the draft, history would say no, but we have added additional recruiting personnel this year so that may help. Lets just hope they have been out there since last year looking for the talent.

As for your last sentence, I don't believe we would be seen as begging, I think many would see it as justifiable compensation, but that is the one point we will have to agree to dissagree on.. :thumbsup

Reiwoldt, Hodge, Goddard, Murphy etc.

not overrated the no.1 picks

Offline WA Tiger

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Well after todays effort I really think the RFC needs to approach the AFL and apply for adequate compensation from this years draft. We can't go on like this and the GC17 will be ahead of us on the ladder in their first year. Surley the gap between us and glory is evident after today and if the AFL want that sort of demonstration to promote our game then they are mad.
DIMMA - You will be held ACCOUNTABLE...

“We are really excited about what we have brought in. We have got great depth of players that can take us where we need to go. We are just putting some cream on the top at the moment,” he said.

"Rucks:
Shaun Hampson is the No.1 man"

Offline tiger101

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i have no doubt GC will most likely finished higher then us next year.
they have a heap of great talented youngsters and will have uncontracted afl players to pick from this year. we do need help but i cant see it happening just crossing my fingers that most of our picks turn into great 100 plus game players.

Offline WA Tiger

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i have no doubt GC will most likely finished higher then us next year.
they have a heap of great talented youngsters and will have uncontracted afl players to pick from this year. we do need help but i cant see it happening just crossing my fingers that most of our picks turn into great 100 plus game players.


Yeah I don't think the AFL will change anything but I still think the RFC should approach them.
DIMMA - You will be held ACCOUNTABLE...

“We are really excited about what we have brought in. We have got great depth of players that can take us where we need to go. We are just putting some cream on the top at the moment,” he said.

"Rucks:
Shaun Hampson is the No.1 man"

Hellenic Tiger

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i have no doubt GC will most likely finished higher then us next year.
they have a heap of great talented youngsters and will have uncontracted afl players to pick from this year. we do need help but i cant see it happening just crossing my fingers that most of our picks turn into great 100 plus game players.


Yeah I don't think the AFL will change anything but I still think the RFC should approach them.

AFL will argue our ills are of a self inflicted nature and we were warned of this compromised draft for at least 3 years or since North decided to stay in Melb and not go to QLD.
We could have won the spoon with less than 4 wins and have 2 of Trengove Martin and Scully to begin with.

Offline tiger101

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AFL will argue our ills are of a self inflicted nature and we were warned of this compromised draft for at least 3 years or since North decided to stay in Melb and not go to QLD.
We could have won the spoon with less than 4 wins and have 2 of Trengove Martin and Scully to begin with.

have to thank mcmahon there the one time he wins a game it hurts us in the long term.

Offline the_boy_jake

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AFL will argue our ills are of a self inflicted nature and we were warned of this compromised draft for at least 3 years or since North decided to stay in Melb and not go to QLD.
We could have won the spoon with less than 4 wins and have 2 of Trengove Martin and Scully to begin with.
No if we won the spoon last year we would have got a priority at around 18

Offline one-eyed

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This is where the AFL's help is going in the upcoming years not surprisingly ...


THE AFL has confirmed it will pour $220 million into the Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney expansion markets over the next six years.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-puts-money-where-mouth-is/story-e6frf9jf-1225862754182

Offline one-eyed

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Gold Coast may deal on draft picks (Herald-Sun)
« Reply #131 on: May 13, 2010, 05:50:21 AM »
Gold Coast may deal on draft picks
Jon Ralph
Herald Sun
May 13, 2010


GOLD Coast has conceded for the first time it may have to trade some of its prized draft picks if it cannot lure enough uncontracted stars north.

Chief recruiter Scott Clayton is confident of netting up to eight rival players, but clubs continue to sign up players on Gold Coast's hit list.

Gold Coast would be unlikely to give away top-10 selections, but has nine of the first 15 draft picks, then the first pick in every subsequent round.

Clubs who lose uncontracted players will receive draft picks as compensation, but the exact formula remains undecided.

The bonus for clubs who choose to trade players for picks is they can use those draft picks immediately rather than wait two seasons.

The AFL recently changed the rules for Gold Coast compensation picks, declaring clubs could not use them in this draft or the 2011 national draft.

It will lead to the situation where clubs desperate to immediately use high compensation picks must instead sit on their hands in frustration.

Full article at:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/gold-coast-may-deal-on-draft-picks/story-e6frf9ix-1225865740768

Ramps

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McGuane, Moore, Thursfield et al + another 10 or so should be offered up to see if we can get any extra picks

Offline Penelope

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Don't think you would get much in way of draft picks for me ramps  ;D

I wouldn't trade any of those for picks, though, as you wont get a high pick in return for them, which would mean you have a few years to wait and still have no guarantee your pick is an improvement on what you gave away.

I would though trade two of them if it gave you a legitimate KPP or ruckman and a pick though.
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Offline one-eyed

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Bear Bones (Herald-Sun)
« Reply #134 on: May 15, 2010, 03:15:21 PM »
A bit about us and Dustin Martin ........


Bear bones

    * Gerard Healy
    * From: Herald Sun
    * May 15, 2010



With stars rejecting overtures at a rapid rate, Gold Coast may end up fielding a team of no-names that makes the 'Carrara Koalas' of the 1980s appear a powerhouse.

IF THE alarm bells aren't ringing in Andrew Demetriou's office, they should be.

With just nine months until Gold Coast's AFL debut, the positive landscape of the past 12 months is changing rapidly.

The list of who isn't playing for the Coast gets longer by the day, and is alarmingly significant for both expansion teams - in fact, for all clubs.

The likes of Joel Selwood, Lance Franklin and Michael Hurley have all been rubbed off Gold Coast list manager Scott Clayton's extensive wish list. If Gary Ablett's name gets a line through it as well, we are entitled to begin asking questions.

Exactly who is going to play for the Lifesavers? And will the team be in need of resuscitation from day one?

The inability to get the Ablett deal done has almost been a warning light to other players. If he doesn't sign, the chances of gaining a group of genuine match-winners, around which to build, looks certain to fail.

Even if Jarrod Harbrow or Campbell Brown were to take up the offer, there still wouldn't be close to enough talent heading north.

It seems unlikely there is a group of hidden, established guns set to be revealed which can short-circuit the development phase and make Gold Coast worth watching on TV.

Clayton conceded the problem this week, saying the club might have to trade early draft picks for experienced players. It is a strategy that is counter-productive to the team's

ultimate goal and hard evidence of the potential problem. Trading away the future is not Clayton's style, and suggests a looming crisis.
 

 

THE BAD NEWS - BEARS ARE BACK

This is not just about Gold Coast.

The scenario has the capacity to become a fatal recruiting storm as the knock-on effect to the Greater Western Sydney team is disturbingly obvious.

From a recruiting sense, selling the Gold Coast to players in comparison to GWS is like chalk and cheese. If Clayton can't land any decent fish, without trading away the future, what hope has Kevin Sheedy got?

Given the draft and salary-cap concessions, expectations were high the Gold Coast team would prosper quickly, but without a core of talented senior players that's unlikely.

The one thing you need to sell in new markets is a winning team.

Despite its best intentions, the AFL's blueprint for building a competitive outfit in both expansion zones looks as though it might produce another Brisbane Bears.

Of course, the Bears were slapped together in 1987 using the cast-offs of the 12 VFL teams, which each had to send three listed players to Carrara.

With a few exceptions such as Mark Williams and Brad Hardie, the Bears' original outfit was a host of untried WAFL and SANFL players, coupled with unwanted VFL players.

The signing of Williams was the most significant. He was an influential player, a Collingwood skipper who had significant pulling power on other recruiting targets.

Williams was exactly what Gold Coast sees in Ablett: a player of great value on the field, but vastly more important for the lead he would give to others.

If a marquee player doesn't come soon, the list of uncontracted players will disconcertingly thin.

Already Sheedy is flagging that another year or two of concessions at the draft will be required and it's hard to dispute his assessment.

But it would leave some skinny drafts for other bottom teams.

Still, that's a far better option than the potential destruction of the competition's payment structure, which is already on the line as an unseen byproduct of expansion.

The advances to established players are obviously so unsuccessful that the focus of GWS has evidently shifted to offering big money for talent, regardless of age.

For example, there are strong suggestions of offers of about $800,000, to youngsters such as Richmond's Dustin Martin. That would put him in the AFL's top 20 paid players and has moved the Tigers to make a strong counter offer.

It was expected the inflation would be felt at the top end not the bottom of the ladder.

 


MONOPOLY MONEY

If the only way the new clubs can build a competitive team is to offer talented teens monopoly money figures, then the model for their establishment is completely flawed and has to be addressed - now.

How does Richmond compete with such an offer? And how would the club be adequately compensated?

I have no trouble paying superstars from other codes over-the-top money to try to play, promote, and, more importantly, break down the cultural barriers that could unlock a vast array of supporters and players from the northern states.

But the Martin offer threatens to distort Richmond's salary distribution beyond commercial sense.

If recruiting youngsters at any cost replaces recruiting senior players who look hard to shift, we're going down the wrong path.

The lack of separation of power between club and governing body, so evident in the Melbourne Storm fiasco, could produce another damaging outcome, this time to our own game.

Surely Demetriou can't responsibly establish a team that requires such a distortion of accepted salary payments to third-year players when it's the AFL's money doing the distorting.

The struggling teams will suffer, and the players will lose perspective of their worth.


 


TIME FOR A RETHINK

We all want the Lifesavers to prosper and for Sheedy's GWS to take root quickly - and every club and most supporters seem to accept they will pay some price as the game expands.

Sheedy did just that when he lost Gavin Wanganeen for no compensation to the first Port Adelaide team. But supporters won't accept losing hope for the future if it is AFL money that takes them away.

Perhaps the AFL needs to restrict the movement of U21 players unless by mutual consent. Maybe each club should be forced to delist one or two mid-range players to a pool from which the two new clubs can pick, so they don't have to trade away their future.

The plan of building a competitive team around a core of talented senior players and top-line youngster looks like coming up well short.

Instead there is the potential to produce unforeseen outcomes that strike at the heart of the battling and established clubs.

More modelling work urgently needs to be done to ensure that in trying to expand we don't end up contracting. Yes, the alarm bells are ringing. But is anyone listening?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/bear-bones/story-e6frf9jf-1225867042327