imo he would be the worst PERFORMED ruckman in the comp and that goes for juniors as well as seniors. as a ruckman hes abysmal.
Sorry Claw but if that is really what you think then there is little point even discussing it further as you are obviously incapable of understanding the game.
He isn't even the worst performed ruckman on our list.
we only have two others imo, hamspud who is terrible player but a better ruckman than vickery yet people want him delisted and maric who is a circuit of flemington in front of him.
what ruckmen on our list is he in front of.
hmm other ruckmen
jacobs no where near him similar age.
leuenberger nope nowhere near him
martin nope martin easy.
kruezer nope
warnock nope
cameron wood nope is a better ruckman hhhaaarrrggghhh.
grundy nope is already better
witts nope is better
bellchambers nope
giles nope
sandilands nope
clarke nope
griffiths nope.
do i really need to go on and do every team. im not sure what you and tone are watching but all ive seen is ordinary when it comes to vickery and the ruck. ffs orren stephenson was a mile better ruckman than vickery.
derickx at sydney, a bloke we cut has shown more. longer looks better in the role already. we are talking ruckman here and vickery has played 6 complete seasons approaches 100 games is close to 25 yrs old at the start of the season and we are still having debates about his potential and weather he should even be kept or not. quite frankly that is not good enough.
to date in the role of ruckman vickery has been poo. and there is not one thing you or tone or flipflop judge can bring up to dispute it.
In his 6 years he has played in the ruck probably about 30% of the time. Why would you judge his whole career on just his ruck work? He has kicked 100 goals.
Take the glasses off mate, he is no star but he has done ok to date with his best footy in front of him just going by what players of his size and age have done.
Compare him to Griffith's 5 years on our list as a forward/ruck. Don't think he has even been in the best players after a senior game.
once again i will say i wasnt the one who compared him to ruckmen. i just showed quite effectively that it was a nonsense comparison.
cmon logic says we went and got hamspson because vickery just didnt come on as a ruckman.
what im actually saying here to people is its a nonsense to try and place vickery in #1 ruck company hes been terrible in the role when hes played there and the stats back it up. blokes who are scared dont make it in the ruck.
so imo hes not a top level ruckman and thats what ive argued because others keep comparing him to ruckmen, with hampson so ordinary as a player the need remains for us to find a top level ruckman to take over from maric.
if you want to talk about him as a tall fwd im happy to do that as well. ive regularly posted my criticisms of him as a fwd and i think him ordinary or just ok most of the time.the one saving grace, and is probably the only thing that keeps him getting a game, is like you say he manages to kick a few goals mostly cheapies mind. but he hits the scoreboard.
but even then as a kpf he needs to kick more.
i dont need stats to tell me he doesnt take many c/m an ideal trait for a tall fwd. he hasnt in the past crashed packs and given good aerial contests.at 200cm he should be the one we bomb it to when we need to.
he tackles rarely in fact is lazy without the ball and doesnt even chase half the time.
doesnt block or even spoil so few 1% another trait id expect in my tallsand rucks at least.the simple truth is he just disappears in games.
hes not finding a lot of ball despite often being freed up on ball. and to finish when on ball he contributes little.
constant criticisms of his game and until they improve i will continue to complain about them.
for 6 yrs the same sort of criticisms no change so what makes people think they magically change in yr 7.
all i ask of the club is they go out and draft a decent junior kpf in the draft just in case vickery doesnt take that magical leap you think he will.so we arent left at the start line again still looking for a top level kpf to partner riewoldt.
imo we should be looking at kpfs and not another 200cm come ruck cum fwd if we are lucky just okay at both roles.
What I don't understand is why you are comparing Vickory against either a genuine ruckmen or a genuine KPF. His is part time at both. It's unfair to do it the way you have. You need to compare him against players that play his roll. A second ruckmen which he is behind Maric, that plays forward because he CAN take a good clunk and kick it pretty well. If you were to ask me I don't think he is good enough to play either roll exclusively. But IMO is doing a pretty good job doing what he is doing for a player of his size and shape in his 6th year.
sheesh how many times does one have to say hes not the one who compared him to other ruckmen.others did that.
so all ive done is show there is no comparison with the comparisons.
ive been saying exactly what you have said hes not good enough to play either role exclusively your words,i take it a step further and constanfly said imo he should not get a game because he doesnt do one of the roles to an acceptable level. jack of two trades master of neither.
my opinion on most of our talls has been and continues to be, we could easily upgrade most of our kpp/ruck stocks with only riewoldt rance and maric top level performers.
mate theres good reasons as to why i keep on saying our tall fwd stocks are dire.
so if vickery is a part timefwd/ruck what the hell do we do with griffiths. same role as vickery only one place.
but there is a reason to compare him against others in the roles he plays. that is to see how he stacks up in that role.
me ive constantly put him in the ruck/fwd or utility category and have constantly stated he is ordinary at both rolesit would be good if he was top level or even decent at one of the roles.
