Author Topic: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]  (Read 48772 times)

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #345 on: July 11, 2009, 11:58:11 AM »
Lose by one point would be ideal.

Offline one-eyed

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This isn't on the net so I scanned it in. It's Malthouse view on tanking...

Stamp out priority draft picks to banish tanks from the grounds
By MICK MALTHOUSE
SAT 11 JUL 2009, The Australian, Page 47

IT's time for the ugliest word in football to rear its head again.

The top sides have September on their minds; the middling outfits are focused on that, too, but down at the bottom of the ladder, it's priority draft picks and next year that are starting to becomes the issues.

Allegations of tanking -- the word the AFL doesn't want you to hear -- are about to be in the news again.

What a shame.

Last week was a definitive round for a lot of clubs for a lot of reasons. We hoped for and got a great game between St Kilda and Geelong, but we were surprised by a blowout between the Bulldogs and Hawthorn.

The other results were reasonably predictable and now we have a handful of sides who are approaching the mathematical reality of not making the eight.

Where do they head?

There was an interesting comment made during the week by Terry Wallace when he was asked about coaching and whether he had coached to lose games.

Terry said he coached every game, but he didn't necessarily make moves in every game towards the end of the year. He basically said that he let the game run out.

Every coach knows you cannot tell players to play at half-pace; it is just not on. A coach can, if he wants, move players to a position where they are less effective. If a coach doesn't make moves at all, then you let players run their own game and will find they are against multiple opponents who are coming off the interchange.

I can't be certain, but I interpret Terry's comments to mean that Richmond, at the time he was speaking of, was not necessarily unhappy to lose a game of football if it meant a better draft pick.

Terry is a great coach and if he did allow this to occur, I would suspect he was under some pressure, or maybe it is just the invidious position clubs are put in when they know that a win will be more costly than a loss. Maybe I have misinterpreted his comments altogether.

The fact remains, however, that Melbourne, Richmond, North Melbourne, Fremantle and West Coast find themselves in a position where they can get priority draft choices should things go a certain way for the rest of the year.

I am in no way suggesting that they will, but the reality is that there are priority draft choices for clubs who keep under a maximum number of wins for the season and you cannot stop the perception, if not reality, that there is an inducement to underperform.

John Worsfold has just re-signed with West Coast, a side that has lost 18 consecutive games on the road. I listened to him speak recently and he suggested they have a young side and the plan is to nurture them through to a mature group.

The Eagles won a premiership by nurturing young players through so the reasoning is very sound, but we are rarely dealt the same hand as coaches.

John would dearly love to find that he had a young Chris Judd, Daniel Kerr, Ben Cousins and Dean Cox on his list again. Collectively, they were one of the best midfield groupings ever, but it is unlikely he will be that lucky again.

John now has to go through his list and find out who can fill the key positions. He has an exciting prospect in Nick Naitanui.

Fremantle has been in the building process for a number of years and it has a coach who has been more than patient. The Dockers lose games when they are in front, which they did at home last week, and this is part of a learning process, but now the young players have to learn how to win or they will continue to learn how not to win.

North Melbourne and Richmond are both operating under caretaker coaches. This pair are the intriguing ones because I dare say that whoever inherits these sides will be hoping that neither of them win too many more games so they can get the best possible draft picks.

The caretaker coaches, of course, will not want this to happen; they will want to win every possible game to enhance their career prospects. I suspect a taste of senior coaching will be addictive to both these men and they will not want to go back to being assistants.

Melbourne won last week in a tribute to Jim Stynes, but it has to keep winning -- the team cannot be allowed to continue without showing signs of improvement.

The club has been in the wilderness for several years and has not made inroads on the ladder. While it was wonderful they did it for Jim, you wonder why they have not been able to motivate themselves to such a performance earlier. They showed on the weekend they are capable of doing it.

All these sides will be aware that the Gold Coast is coming in and Western Sydney after that. The best 12 17-year-olds are already out of the draft and the draft is already compromised, but there are still priority picks available.

The talk will start very soon about which clubs have decided to pursue these last picks. I know this upsets the AFL and they deny it happens.

The last thing the AFL needs is people saying or thinking that sides may go into a match not wanting to win.

You would never hear of tanking, whether it happens or not, if priority picks did not exist.

A side should never need to bottom out to rise again and good clubs can always rebuild themselves without this help.

Football should not be in the position where in round 15 the talk of tanking and priorities starts again. It is unsavoury, a blight on the game and totally avoidable. Get rid of priority picks and you will get rid of this ugly allegation and this unseemly suspicion.

Ramps

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #347 on: July 11, 2009, 04:13:16 PM »
Tigers going beautifully today tank wise 1.8 in the 3rd quarter so far ... well done to all as for Malthouse ... hes peeing in the wind. The AFL wont pull the picks ... not before the Gold Coast come in anyway.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #348 on: July 11, 2009, 05:25:49 PM »
If that's the effort for the rest of our games with such a young side then we'll survive until the end of the season without the Club imploding and media pressure coming from the outside. Tiger callers post-game seem quite calm despite the loss.
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Online Francois Jackson

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #349 on: July 11, 2009, 05:56:36 PM »
2 weeks in a row i have walked out feeling very pleased.

Good result

keep up the good work boys.
 
Certainly has a touch of the Blues a few years back when ervery game they come close but no cigar
Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Ramps

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #350 on: July 11, 2009, 05:57:38 PM »
2 weeks in a row i have walked out feeling very pleased.

Good result

keep up the good work boys.
 
Certainly has a touch of the Blues a few years back when ervery game they come close but no cigar

Sydney losing is also a good result for us if the Foley rumours are true  ;)

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #351 on: July 11, 2009, 06:15:40 PM »
What we need:

We need to tank to get the extra pick
We need to finish on the bottom or atleast 2nd last
We need to trade out some senior players with currency ie. Foley, Newman etc.
We need to pick 3 midfielders and 2 KPPs over 195cm.
We need to pick as many of the following players as we can from the draft

1) Tom Scully
2) Dustin Martin
3) Koby Stevens
4) Ben Griffiths
5) Daniel Talia.

Im thinking we will get 2 of 5 by trading may we get 3 of the 5 ... only a miracle gets us the 5.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #352 on: July 11, 2009, 06:48:50 PM »
Scully will go No.1 so we've got no chance of getting him. Melbourne won't win another 3 games. We can however finish bottom still which would grab a Butcher if we want a 195cm+ KPP. Pick up a Talia with our PP if he's still available and that's two plus a mid with our 2nd rounder. Another mid with our 3rd rounder. A trade for another first rounder if we were to go down that path would get us another mid.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #353 on: July 11, 2009, 09:04:24 PM »
Hard to tank when Freo can only kick a point to half-time and are 70 points down :P
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline peggles

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #354 on: July 11, 2009, 09:59:44 PM »
Hard to tank when Freo can only kick a point to half-time and are 70 points down :P

lucky we don't play them again this year.  it's hard to lose to that mob

Offline peggles

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #355 on: July 11, 2009, 10:04:39 PM »
Scully will go No.1 so we've got no chance of getting him. Melbourne won't win another 3 games. We can however finish bottom still which would grab a Butcher if we want a 195cm+ KPP. Pick up a Talia with our PP if he's still available and that's two plus a mid with our 2nd rounder. Another mid with our 3rd rounder. A trade for another first rounder if we were to go down that path would get us another mid.

i agree totally with that plan.  of course the player i want the most out of the draft is the superstar in scully.  but i wouldn't be displeased at all if we end up getting butcher.  he fills our biggest need i reckon.  good thing he didn't do that well at the u18 carnival.  may just make it bit easier to grab him.  

just shows how important the PP is to us.  definitely need 2 talls in the top 20.  the options for him at the PP are talia, griffiths or carlisle.

i think it would be mighty hard to trade for another first rounder

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #356 on: July 12, 2009, 12:35:23 AM »
Hard to tank when Freo can only kick a point to half-time and are 70 points down :P

lucky we don't play them again this year.  it's hard to lose to that mob
Freo play the Eagles in 2 weeks. The Eagles will have to tank massively to lose.
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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #357 on: July 12, 2009, 02:33:11 AM »
Hard to tank when Freo can only kick a point to half-time and are 70 points down :P

lucky we don't play them again this year.  it's hard to lose to that mob
Freo play the Eagles in 2 weeks. The Eagles will have to tank massively to lose.

Freo's record in the derby is great though so the Eagles may have their work cut out.
A win for Freo won't be that bad gets them to 4 wins and if we can lose all our remaining games despite our superior percentage to them we will still be on 3 wins with the Dees who we lay in rd 18 assuming they beat us. Just one win by us may be the difference of us snaring pick 2 or pick 4,5 or 6.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #358 on: July 12, 2009, 09:24:27 PM »
Looking at the remaining games here are some scenarios:

West Coast must lose every game to get a priority pick - if they do that then North have 5 wins, Richmond and Fremantle have a minimum of 4.
North must lose every game to get a priority pick - if they do that then West Coast have 5 wins, Richmond have a minimum of 4, Melbourne have a minimum of 3 4.
Fremantle can win one more game and still get a priority pick - if they don't then then West Coast have 5 wins.
Richmond can win one more game and still get a priority pick - if they don't then North and West Coast have 5 wins, Melbourne have a minimum of 3 4.
Melbourne can win 2 1 more games and still get a priority pick - if they don't win any then North have 5 wins, Richmond and Fremantle have a minimum of 4, only 2 of Richmond/Fremantle/West Coast can stay under 5.
It's only possible for a maximum of 4 3 teams to get a priority pick.

Here are the 'affected' games:

R16 - Richmond vs North
R17 - Fremantle vs West Coast
R18 - Melbourne vs Richmond
R19 - North vs Melbourne
R20 - West Coast vs North
R20 - Melbourne vs Fremantle
R22 - West Coast vs Richmond

We're about to enter the 7 week tank-athon now. I think only 3 teams can now end up with a PP with the Dees winning today. Survival of the tank-iest  :yep 

West Coast    4 wins
North            4
Richmond      3
Melbourne     3
Fremantle     3
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 09:50:52 PM by mightytiges »
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Online WilliamPowell

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #359 on: July 12, 2009, 09:39:01 PM »
We're about enter the 7 week tank-athon now. I think now only 3 teams can now end up with a PP with the Dees winning today. Survival of the tank-iest  :yep 

West Coast    4 wins
North            4
Richmond      3
Melbourne     3
Fremantle     3


So looking forward to it.. NOT  :'(
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

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