Author Topic: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]  (Read 48564 times)

Con65

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #555 on: July 27, 2009, 05:26:32 PM »
Pope...you forgot about pick 7...J. Selwood or T. Vickery...pick 6 was D. Rich...good players can still be had in the top 10...

It is the picks in the 20/30/40 that need to be right...Post is an example of someone - so far and it is still early days...who is a good pick...Beams at 29 is a good pick...

Trading pick 42 for Thomo - so far - is not a good trade...42 for Prismall would have been much better....

Offline camboon

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #556 on: July 27, 2009, 05:57:28 PM »
MMM, pick 42 on a kid would be better, if we can produce good players off the rookie list which are effectively pick 100+ surely we have a better chance at getting a good kid at pick 42 - Clubs don't let players go unless there is something fundamentally wrong.

Offline Infamy

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #557 on: July 27, 2009, 06:24:31 PM »
Pope...you forgot about pick 7...J. Selwood or T. Vickery...pick 6 was D. Rich...good players can still be had in the top 10...
Rich was also pick 7, pretty good pick that one recently, Ryder, Selwood, Palmer & Rich in the last 4 years alone, kinda hope we get Pick 7 this year and take Dustin Martin, he'd be a great addition to our midfield. Vickery was Pick 8.

However your point is still valid.

Con65

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #558 on: July 27, 2009, 07:03:33 PM »
Rich was also pick 7,

Thanks Infamy...dont know why i had 6 on the brain....

So that means 6 teams passed up Rich...I think Freo took the biggest gamble on Hill...by passing Rich a WA kid...

But yes pick 7 has been a happy hunting ground of recent times...

Offline yellowandback

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #559 on: July 27, 2009, 09:08:09 PM »
Pope...you forgot about pick 7...J. Selwood or T. Vickery...pick 6 was D. Rich...good players can still be had in the top 10...

It is the picks in the 20/30/40 that need to be right...Post is an example of someone - so far and it is still early days...who is a good pick...Beams at 29 is a good pick...

Trading pick 42 for Thomo - so far - is not a good trade...42 for Prismall would have been much better....

Why would Geelong take our pick 42 when they could've had the Bombers 31?
It's that simple Spud
"I discussed (it) with my three daughters, my wife and my 82-year-old mum, because it has really affected me … If those comments … were made about one of my daughters, it would make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I would not have liked it at all.”

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #560 on: July 27, 2009, 09:20:59 PM »
For the tankers.

Was this win worth the differnce between pick 3 and 4?

I wouldn't have thought so.

Picks 3 and 4's over the years:

2005
3: Xavier Ellis
4. Josh Kennedy

2006:
3. Lachlan Hansen
4. Matthew Leunberger

2007:
3. Chris Masten
4. Cale Morton

2008:
3. Stephen Hill
4. Hamish Hartlett

All very very good players. I'll take the win and pick 4.

WTF ??

We are getting pick 7.

we are getting screwed.

wake up man - no pick 4

Offline big tone

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #561 on: July 27, 2009, 10:03:03 PM »
Now I enjoyed yesterdays win as much as anyone but it has cost us big time imo.
As we all know the draft is there to try and even up the competition but whether you win the premiership by 100 points or come stone motherless last with no wins, you get a pick inside the first 16. So the difference in most cases is minimal at best. Any first round pick has a better than average chance of being a very good footballer for his club.
That said the AFL realises that this isn’t enough to try and make up the difference between first and last. This is where the priority picks comes in.
Andrew D and his cronies from the AFL can sit back and say there is no tanking, but deep down they know there is but why change a system that is working. As Andrew states every time he gets asked the tanking question- every club has played in a prelim final in the 10 or so years. And fair enough to say that, the system works on paper.
In simple terms getting a priority pick gets you an extra pick inside the top 20. Basically two really good young footballers instead of one. Simple math will tell you that gives you a really big advantage over any team that only gets one.
Teams like Melbourne who don’t take advantage of the priority situation this year would be crazy. Because they have been terrible for a few years now they get the opportunity to pick up the best two kids in the country if they decide not to win a couple of “meaningless” games from here to seasons end. What would you as a Melbourne member/supporter want from here on in?
IMO if this happens they will go ahead of us in terms of chances of winning a premiership. Sure we may play finals before them but making finals and having a side that can challenge for a premiership are two totally different things.
Remembering half the compition play in finals every year.
A good example of a club that knows this is West Coast, they won a premiership 3 years ago and could maybe still be playing finals but to their credit they new they didn’t have the side to win another so they decide to go down and picking up some good young kids and challenge again in  another few years. A club run like a business not a footy club run like our footy club. Maybe it’s because they are a young club and haven’t got the history or the pride to ‘win at every cost’ like our club but I bet you they win their next premiership before we do.
The win against Essendon on Sunday will cost our club going forward like it has done for as long as I can remember- winning games late in the season when we are out of finals contention. Giving away the only real chance of getting an advantage over the other clubs above us by picking up an extra young kid come draft day. To make the win even worse is the fact that the new clubs are coming into the compition starting next year and the drafts will be compromised making it even harder to make ground on the top sides.
It’s ironic that today after a great win on the weekend I feel the worst I have all year. IMHO I cannot see any real light at the end of this really, really long tunnel. I would have preferred us to sign  Jade to coach us next year and told him to lose every game until the season was over and given him next year to prove he was worth keeping. But ensuring we got 3 picks inside the top 20 this year. Worse case scenario we’d be looking for a coach next year but with an extra potential superstar on our list in the last uncompromised draft for years.
I really hope you ‘winning culture’ people enjoyed yesterday’s win because they will be few and far between for a long time!

Jackstar is back

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #562 on: July 27, 2009, 10:40:29 PM »
you obviously ddint go yesterday :banghead

Offline big tone

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #563 on: July 27, 2009, 10:52:17 PM »
you obviously ddint go yesterday :banghead
Wrong again Jack. I enjoyed it but would enjoy 3 picks inside the first 20 more.
I wouldn't expect a simpleton like you to understand! Go back to your colour in books stupid!

Jackstar is back

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #564 on: July 27, 2009, 10:58:47 PM »
you obviously ddint go yesterday :banghead
Wrong again Jack. I enjoyed it but would enjoy 3 picks inside the first 20 more.
I wouldn't expect a simpleton like you to understand! Go back to your colour in books stupid!


Yep and simpletons like you would pick up another JON :banghead
By the way, am coloring  in with textas now,out grown the crayons :wallywink

Offline tigersalive

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #565 on: July 27, 2009, 11:08:10 PM »
Glad that win is out of the way.  Will make the Round 20 game I am flying over for even better knowing there is no smell of tanking.  :gotigers
EAT EM ALIVE!

Offline Stripes

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #566 on: July 27, 2009, 11:17:33 PM »
Great post bigtone.  :clapping

I loved the win too but it was tainted with the knowledge that we had lost a priority pick.

I'm looking forward to next year so I can start to barrack for my team without worrying about the future and instead getting excited about how well our team is going right then.

2010 finals please! We can only wait so long  :scream

Stripes

Offline mat073

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #567 on: July 28, 2009, 12:00:08 AM »
Jackstar....please stop using JON as your only example of our recruiting.We all know he is not going to make it.

Yes 2005 was a disaster at the draft table with JON and Cleve but since then we have picked a few winners.

Riewoldt
Collins
Vickery
Post
Nahas
Rance

The reality is that only about half the kids drafted end up having significant AFL careers-At all clubs.
For what its worth... JON would of been picked up inside the top 20 by another club had we not selected him at 8.Right or wrong there were big raps on him.
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FooffooValve

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #568 on: July 28, 2009, 12:42:20 PM »
you obviously ddint go yesterday :banghead
Wrong again Jack. I enjoyed it but would enjoy 3 picks inside the first 20 more.
I wouldn't expect a simpleton like you to understand! Go back to your colour in books stupid!


You tankers are pretty good at spin. Obviously it has more impact and thus appears to suit your argument to say "3 picks inside the top 20" as if the top 20 is some imaginary line of excellence. Why don't you say "2 picks inside the top 25"? Clearly that doesn't sound as good for your spurious argument.

Losing one pick at around 17-20 is not the disaster that you make it out to be. Let's face it, if our future and next premiership depends on one pick inside the top 20, then clearly we are much closer to that flag than any of us realise. And let's not forget that we can always trade for extra picks, if we have the guts.

When you consider that it is crucial that we get as many games into our youngsters as possible in the shortest time, why would we actively manufacture a situation where the first 10 of their first 30 games are deliberate losses? Why would we waste these vital experiences by playing them out of position to ensure a loss? Or dragging them if they're playing too well? Whether they win or lose isn't the point - it is the shared experience of doing their utmost to win that is important. Pushing each other to the limit. Feeling genuine pain when they lose and genuine elation when they win. These are the things that start to bond a team.

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #569 on: July 28, 2009, 04:20:25 PM »
you obviously ddint go yesterday :banghead
Wrong again Jack. I enjoyed it but would enjoy 3 picks inside the first 20 more.
I wouldn't expect a simpleton like you to understand! Go back to your colour in books stupid!


You tankers are pretty good at spin. Obviously it has more impact and thus appears to suit your argument to say "3 picks inside the top 20" as if the top 20 is some imaginary line of excellence. Why don't you say "2 picks inside the top 25"? Clearly that doesn't sound as good for your spurious argument.

Losing one pick at around 17-20 is not the disaster that you make it out to be. Let's face it, if our future and next premiership depends on one pick inside the top 20, then clearly we are much closer to that flag than any of us realise. And let's not forget that we can always trade for extra picks, if we have the guts.

When you consider that it is crucial that we get as many games into our youngsters as possible in the shortest time, why would we actively manufacture a situation where the first 10 of their first 30 games are deliberate losses? Why would we waste these vital experiences by playing them out of position to ensure a loss? Or dragging them if they're playing too well? Whether they win or lose isn't the point - it is the shared experience of doing their utmost to win that is important. Pushing each other to the limit. Feeling genuine pain when they lose and genuine elation when they win. These are the things that start to bond a team.

I think you will find the top 20 have a better chance of making it than the top, say 40 in the draft pool.

By a fair way.

If you watched Coburg vs Casey I reckon you would have seen the clear need to get as many good young players onto the list as possibile.  :-X
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 04:53:12 PM by Bentleigh-esque »