One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: mightytiges on April 24, 2008, 10:37:16 PM
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Hutchy got a copy of the AFL's draft version for Gold Coast and Western Sydney. Basically the existing clubs can wipe off the 2010, 2011 and 2012 drafts.
Gold Coast
2008: 15 QLD kids opt out of draft
2009: 15 national 17s, 5 rookies, 15 qld QLD kids opt out of draft
2010: first top 5 picks (7 of top 15) of the National draft on top of what they got in 2009.
Western Sydney
2010: 10 National 17s
2011: first top 5 picks (7 of top 16) plus the rest the Gold Coast got
2012: first top 5 picks (7 of top 16) plus the rest "
So if you don't draft the best kids in 2008 and 2009 then you're screwed :help
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saw it, what a joke if it goes ahead
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I imagine the trading week will be extended as well to allow the new sides the ability to trade for established players.
Still think it's a mistake to have 2 new sides come in within a year. Will thin the talent pool far too much. Should be separated by a few teams, would minimise the impact on current sides and give the new sides more or a chance to establish themselves.
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In the immortal words of JP McEnroe
You can't be serious
but....
we are talking about Andy D, Adrian A and goofy Gillon... :wallywink x 3
Though you'd think they'd have more pressing concerns like where exactly are the Gold Coast going to play?
Read in the papers they are suggesting $40mil compo to get out of the Gabba deal = any new Qld team must play home games at the Gabba until 2015
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Lets Tank in 2008 ;D
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Lets Tank in 2008 ;D
Hey that's another 4 words Ramps :rollin
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stupid four word habit
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stupid four word habit
:thumbsup :bow :thumbsup :bow
:eyebrow :eyebrow
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In the immortal words of JP McEnroe
You can't be serious
but....
we are talking about Andy D, Adrian A and goofy Gillon... :wallywink x 3
Though you'd think they'd have more pressing concerns like where exactly are the Gold Coast going to play?
Read in the papers they are suggesting $40mil compo to get out of the Gabba deal = any new Qld team must play home games at the Gabba until 2015
Which is why the AFL decision not to extend the Roos 12 months to consider the Gold Coast as a relocation option becomes even more galling !
Compromising the draft to that extent, I believe, is designed by the AFL to put pressure on the existing clubs to sign-off on a relocation package for a struggling Melbourne based club and divert stadia development funds towards compensation.
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The existing clubs will be up in arms over this. You could finish 12th in those years and only end up with 1 pick in the top 30 and because you've finished down the bottom no one is interested in trading for your players.
I'm glad we've got one of the youngest lists as this will hurt teams like Freo who have topped up with older players and very few kids.
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The existing clubs will be up in arms over this. You could finish 12th in those years and only end up with 1 pick in the top 30 and because you've finished down the bottom no one is interested in trading for your players.
I'm glad we've got one of the youngest lists as this will hurt teams like Freo who have topped up with older players and very few kids.
Agree, as a result, this may distort List management at club level for 5 years.
However, this may play into the ALFPA's hands for free agency which may just be the big game after the fall out of the 2012 TV rights.
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The existing clubs will be up in arms over this. You could finish 12th in those years and only end up with 1 pick in the top 30 and because you've finished down the bottom no one is interested in trading for your players.
I'm glad we've got one of the youngest lists as this will hurt teams like Freo who have topped up with older players and very few kids.
Agree, as a result, this may distort List management at club level for 5 years.
However, this may play into the ALFPA's hands for free agency which may just be the big game after the fall out of the 2012 TV rights.
Agree Darth. This could get very messy and clubs will have to be on the ball or they could be left with a train wreck of a list with very few quality youngsters coming through.
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Can't see people supporting a Gold Coast team that doesn't play on the Gold Coast. That's why the Titans are so popular - because they have their own ground on the Coast.
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Richmond will now hang onto Raines and McGuane until Gold Coast comes in. We probably need to trade 1 player of reasonable note for a decent pick if we can in this years draft as well. If we lose all games in the next 3 weeks I will be well and truly on the tank bandwagon.
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Richmond will now hang onto Raines and McGuane until Gold Coast comes in. We probably need to trade 1 player of reasonable note for a decent pick if we can in this years draft as well. If we lose all games in the next 3 weeks I will be well and truly on the tank bandwagon.
yep...got no problem with that what so ever.....i'm fine with tanking provided we put in good performances with kids on the park....may as well tank while we can....priority picks dont' come by very often....esp good when this is another super draft...short term disapointement leads to brighter horizons..
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draft order is overrated as is tanking
the aints built up a team with high draft picks and they are still no good
geelong built a power team with no ealy picks but great development
no tanking what so ever, no guarantee early picks become better than late picks, its all bout development and kids develop better in a winning team and culture and thats what we need
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This year is a superdraft so we will do what we always do during such seasons - over perform! ;)
We have bottomed out at the right time it seems. This year we will more than likely finish between 10th & 14th which will still give us some good early picks and then in 2009 move into the 8. If we were bottoming out this year then we would be in trouble as you would normally expect bottom teams to hover around the lower end of the ladder for a handful of years before building up the base to begin to climb again. We have been sitting around the bottom (this time :() for around 4 years and are only now starting to look like we may begin to climb.
Carlton also seemed to have bottomed out at the right time (Damn them!) but Melbourne's rebuild will be serverely hurt by this new situation.
While we will still needs to find quality youth to fill gaps diring this drafting period we shouldn't have to rebuild or recruit on mass as we have been doing over the last few years.
So I am less concerned with this development than I would be if I was a Demons supporter.
Stripes
Stripes
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draft order is overrated as is tanking
the aints built up a team with high draft picks and they are still no good
geelong built a power team with no ealy picks but great development
no tanking what so ever, no guarantee early picks become better than late picks, its all bout development and kids develop better in a winning team and culture and thats what we need
So you would say the like of Deledio and White are equally talented players going by your theory?
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whwre was deledio picked
where was james hird picked
i rest my case
now about deledio and white, white could become just as good as deledio, has the pace. but not as tall
how about collins, hasnt been sen yet but could be anything, say he becomes a star which he still may cos we all know he was picked up as a bargain and has talent
at this stage white has shown more imo than say gibbs
well?
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Matthew White IMHO is a squad player. A player that should be ranked 25 to 35 on a list.
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good very good squad players make a team, not individual brilliant players
geelong never ever picked up priority picks and early picks, yet are the premiers
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Have benefitted by getting some good quality kids through father and son
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Have benefitted by getting some good quality kids through father and son
thats a cop out, and i dont agree, not all father sons become great, some do some dont
we have richo, joel, had roachlol bourke lol tuck is a son of a gun, although not our father son, rance is a son of a good player, as is mitch morton
clubs should not be waiting for good f/s players to come through to get success
its all about development, all these kids from tac can play
btw, edwards dad was a stuff aboriginal player in SA, in one season kicked over 100 goals as a rover/onballer but lost his site in one eye when he was accidentally poked in the eye during a game, and had to quit playing
we may not have many f/s players but we have a healthy number of kids whose dads were great players at other clubs
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whwre was deledio picked
where was james hird picked
i rest my case
now about deledio and white, white could become just as good as deledio, has the pace. but not as tall
how about collins, hasnt been sen yet but could be anything, say he becomes a star which he still may cos we all know he was picked up as a bargain and has talent
at this stage white has shown more imo than say gibbs
well?
Hird wa drafted 15+ years ago. Deledio 4 years ago.
Drafting has changed alot. It is the most important part of the game. Will only get more important in the future.
Collins has not got a game yet. Compare than to the top 10 players in his draft; Selwood, Leuenburger, Boak...
What world do you live in?
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Geelong got their gun Father-Sons under the old rule too. Now days with the auction system it'll be a lot harder to get a gun F/S cheaply (like pick 40 or thereabouts). If the new rule was around in 2006 then Geelong wouldn't have been able to pick up both Hawkins and Selwood.
In any case recruiting is about (re)building and developing a full list with depth over time like Geelong did over 8 years. Sure there are exceptions like our own Foley who fall through the cracks as a kid but it's an odds game. Earlier draft picks are more likely to succeed than later ones.
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Have benefitted by getting some good quality kids through father and son
thats a cop out, and i dont agree, not all father sons become great, some do some dont
we have richo, joel, had roachlol bourke lol tuck is a son of a gun, although not our father son, rance is a son of a good player, as is mitch morton
clubs should not be waiting for good f/s players to come through to get success
its all about development, all these kids from tac can play
btw, edwards dad was a stuff aboriginal player in SA, in one season kicked over 100 goals as a rover/onballer but lost his site in one eye when he was accidentally poked in the eye during a game, and had to quit playing
we may not have many f/s players but we have a healthy number of kids whose dads were great players at other clubs
Difference being we paid "market" value for Edwards
Whereas Hawkins would have been top 5 draft pick but Geelong used a lower pick and then also got another quality kid with their first rounder.
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Melbourne, Eagles and Essendon look like being the 3 bottom sides at this stage. Carlton, Freo, Port, us and the Saints are next on the ladder. With the Cats, Hawks and Dogs undefeated there's a wide range of finishing spots for the group of middle of the road sides. Far too early days but you could win say 9 games this year and still finish say 12th with a top 5 pick as there'll be no pre-first round priority pick if us and Carlton win more than 4 games which looks likely now. It's a very even year outside the top and bottom sides.
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Relocation is still on the cards if a club cannot prove its solvency. A relocation would be the preference of the AFL due to start-up costs of a new entity and the resulting distortion of the draft.
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New teams to get 12 players and draft bonus
Jake Niall | May 1, 2008
THE new Gold Coast team will have access to 12 uncontracted players before it enters the competition and will have two opportunities to, in effect, "gut" a very strong 2010 draft, under the AFL's proposal for establishing the 17th team.
Under the AFL's proposed "list establishment" document for the Gold Coast and Western Sydney teams, the new Queensland club will be given access to a staggering 10 elite 17-year-olds — from all over the country — in next year's draft, and Western Sydney will be given the same deal in 2010.
The AFL yesterday confirmed that it was raising the draft age to 18 years (January 1 to December 31) for the 2009 draft — a decision that will dramatically improve the quality of the 2010 draft, in which the Gold Coast is slated to have picks 1-5, 14, 15, 24 and 41.
The Gold Coast team will be given access to the cream of the players who missed out on the 2009 national draft — a substantial group of players, according to the clubs — because their 18th birthdays fell between January 1 and April 30, 2010.
Numerically, that represents a third of what would have been the new player pool for 2009.
If the Gold Coast team is unable to either persuade those teenagers to sign with them in 2009, it will be able to draft many of them the following year, when it holds picks 1-5, 14, 15, 24 and 41.
An almost identical set of rules — including the 10 17-year-olds — is proposed for Western Sydney in 2010-2011. It would have picks 1-5, 15, 16 (due to the extra club), 25 and 42.
Under the proposal, which several clubs have seen:
■The Gold Coast will be given a 10% higher salary cap for its first five years, with Western Sydney given an additional 20% — similar to the Swans — for its first five seasons. The Brisbane Lions had a 10% allowance at one stage, which was removed after pressure from Melbourne clubs following their run of three premierships.
■Both clubs will be given the opportunity to sign up to 10 uncontracted players before they enter the competition, plus they will have picks one and two in the pre-season draft — in practice, that means they could each snare a dozen uncontracted players.
■The Gold Coast will begin warehousing the best Queensland talent at the end of 2008, when it will be allowed to list 15 Queenslanders from outside of the draft. It is presumed that these players will play in the TAC Cup competition with a team that could be coached by Michael Voss, the favourite to coach the 17th club.
■The Gold Coast club will also be given three years in which to remove the best Queensland talent from the system. After its 2008 selection of Queenslanders, it will be allowed the pick of the Sunshine State again in 2009 (15 players) and five from its home state in 2010.
While many clubs can see opportunities for trading with the Gold Coast and Western Sydney and are formulating five-year plans to deal with the radically changed landscape, there is acceptance that the expansion rules will benefit some clubs with stronger young lists and damage others.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/new-teams-to-get-12-players-and-draft-bonus/2008/04/30/1209234957079.html
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Any team that doesnt have their list in reasonable order by the end of next year is going to get a reaming.
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Many teams will find themselves in a situation eventually similiar to our own where they have devoid of midage or 'premiership age' players with the majority of their list sitting at either extreme.
We should actually find ourselves at an advantage at this stage with such a large percentage of our current list below 23 years of age which (if I am getting my calculations right here) by 2012 most of our list sitting in the mid-age bracket and be ready to start investing in the youth without completely rebuilding.
I think, if things go to plan, this could even strengthen our opportunities to challenge while the more power teams at the moment could struggle to replace their aging stars...
We can all dream can't we :santa
Stripes
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2008 is last chance Manilla for all the clubs. At Richmond we need to make some very tough decisions. Which one of us would agree to trading say a Chris Newman. Its easy to say get rid of Tivendale and Hyde and Tuck but they wont get us anything. Bowden at 30 wont draw much attention. I say if we lose the next 2 weeks we just stuffen tank and get Natanui and Hurley or Natanui and Rich and stuff everyone else. This is Richmond. We owe no one nothing. Lets get a flag for the supporters and lets rort the system because this is the last chance for all.
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2008 is last chance Manilla for all the clubs. At Richmond we need to make some very tough decisions. Which one of us would agree to trading say a Chris Newman. Its easy to say get rid of Tivendale and Hyde and Tuck but they wont get us anything. Bowden at 30 wont draw much attention. I say if we lose the next 2 weeks we just effen tank and get Natanui and Hurley or Natanui and Rich and stuff everyone else. This is Richmond. We owe no one nothing. Lets get a flag for the supporters and lets rort the system because this is the last chance for all.
The problem is after these two games we play some absolutely average teams, i.e. Carlton, Melbourne, Essendon. And I cant see us losing to them and if we try to tank the rest we'll still end up about 11th and without Natanui, Rich or Hurley.
Then after that it becomes a lottery anyway as to picking the right player.
AKA, Dont do it. Play for finals.
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Demetriou really does want to screw the competition over :banghead
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If the Gold Coast team is unable to either persuade those teenagers to sign with them in 2009, it will be able to draft many of them the following year, when it holds picks 1-5, 14, 15, 24 and 41.
Picks 1-5: Gold Coast
Picks 6-13: Bottom 8 sides (if no priority pick)
Picks 14-15: Gold Coast
Picks 16-23: Top 8 sides
Pick 24: Gold Coast
Sheesh if that was the 2004 draft the Gold Coast would have got Lids, Roughead, Griffen, Blingers and Buddy :o.
If you finish mid-ladder in 2010-11 you are stuffed. Just 1 pick in the top 30 :P.
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I don't see how other teams are going to support the AFL on this :banghead
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I don't see how other teams are going to support the AFL on this :banghead
More $$$ of course.
The tv rights are up for renewal in 2012 and with 18 clubs and 9 games per week the stations will have to cop up even more $$$. Most likely around $1 billion. You probably can add another $100 million from the internet/mobile rights.
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well lets hope Craig is on top of it from the get go.
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I don't see how other teams are going to support the AFL on this :banghead
More $$$ of course.
The tv rights are up for renewal in 2012 and with 18 clubs and 9 games per week the stations will have to cop up even more $$$. Most likely around $1 billion. You probably can add another $100 million from the internet/mobile rights.
Aaaahhhh, right. The thing that makes the world keep spinning :banghead
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Tigers' 'major' draft concerns
Jake Niall | The Age | May 2, 2008
RICHMOND has voiced "major concerns" about the impact of Gold Coast draft concessions on some clubs, saying it could create an English Premier League scenario in which few teams can win the premiership over a period of years.
And, as other clubs begin to digest the significance of the proposal to create a new Gold Coast team from scratch, North Melbourne has suggested to the AFL that the current version of concessions might need to be "softened" to give more clubs a chance.
While many clubs are still assessing the proposed recruiting rules for creating first a Gold Coast (in 2011) and then a Western Sydney club, many clubs believe there will be winners and losers from the expansion of the competition, with Hawthorn tipped to be among the clubs most advantaged by the expansion.
Many clubs believe the Hawks will benefit from the expansion because they have a very strong, young playing list that should peak at the time when rivals have little access to the draft picks that can bridge the gap.
Melbourne said the formula for the new clubs "should not disadvantage clubs that need assistance" via the draft.
Some clubs privately expressed concern about the proposed recruiting rules, under which the Gold Coast would be given picks 1-5, 14, 15 and 24 in 2010, plus access to 10 uncontracted players from other clubs. The new club would have already been allowed to sign 10 elite 17-year-olds at the end of 2009 — players who were not eligible for the 2009 draft who would be warehoused for a year.
Western Sydney would be given almost identical concessions the following year, and over a two-year period, under the current proposal.
The AFL has presented two models to the clubs — one in which the Gold Coast comes into the competition in 2011, then Western Sydney in 2012; in the unlikely second option, both clubs enter the competition simultaneously, in 2011.
But the clubs that have been briefed by the AFL on the proposal also were pleased that the AFL had shown it was willing to listen to their concerns, and to seek input and suggestions about how this revolutionary expansion might be best handled for all parties.
Richmond president Gary March said the club had "major concerns" about clubs that had no access to drafts being consigned to the bottom, while a small number were in contention.
"For us, we're concerned but maybe not as concerned as maybe some other clubs would have been because we've had the chance to rebuild our list over the last four years and stay true to it," March said.
"I'd have major concerns. What I'd have major concerns on is that … basically it means a five-to-10-year period, certain clubs, because of having no access to drafts, may be down the bottom for an extended period of time for no fault of their own. And that compromises the competition, and that's the last thing we want to see is a compromised competition.
"If you compromise that too much, you get a situation like in the Premier League where only three sides can ever win it. How boring is that competition?"
Richmond discussed the impact of the draft concessions at its most recent board meeting.
North Melbourne praised the AFL's "interactive" approach to the Gold Coast expansion, while suggesting to the league that the recruiting concessions would have to be "softened" in the interests of all clubs. "On the models that have been presented, one would think there has to be some softening," said North Melbourne chief executive Eugene Arocca. "And we're confident that the process the AFL's embarking on (will deliver)."
Melbourne football operations manager Chris Connolly said last night: "From a Melbourne point of view, there needs to be formula … that does not disadvantage clubs that need assistance at that period of time in their footy lives."
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/tigers-major-draft-concerns/2008/05/01/1209235058760.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
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Can't see people supporting a Gold Coast team that doesn't play on the Gold Coast. That's why the Titans are so popular - because they have their own ground on the Coast.
Exactly Julz. Thats why Nth won't come up here and won't succeed if they do. And thats why Brisbane did no good until they moved to the Gabba. I was involved with footy up here at the time (playing and coaching) and it wasn't until the team moved to Brisbane that they were adopted as their 'own' and the crowds followed. Any chance Nth had has gone, the goodwill evaporated and the only chance of success up here is to 'grow your own'.
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My analysis of where each side is at considering the draft concessions coming up. Based on current ladder order.
Geelong
Geelong built up a great side over the past 6 or 7 years, reigning premiers, will be heavily in the action over the next 3 and could win the whole box and dice again shortly, the draft concessions dished out to GC and WS will mean that if they are sensible, they should play finals for almost a decade as other clubs struggle to lift.
Summary- Contender : Current and in 5 years
Hawthorn
Clarksons done a brilliant job, but he has a problem, that problem is called Geelong. Geelong may do to Hawthorn what Hawthorn were doing to Geelong a decade ago. Hawthorn has a good young list, they have good talls, but there midfield for mine lacks the explosiveness to beat Geelong on a like for like Basis. Going forward they will also have to replace Crawford and maybe 1 or 2 others who are very handy. The defence also lacks class.
They will be around the place for next 5 years but may come up empty. The midfield and defence needs work.
Summary- Contender : Current and in 5 years
Western Bulldogs
Could be stranded in no mans land shortly, wont win a flag with Geelong and Hawthorn around the place as things stand. West, Johnson and several others will be leaving the game over the next 2 or 3 years, there midfield whilst having a great base with Griffen and Cooney will need to get better, question marks over the forward line still exist. For mine they wont win a flag, they will lose players and fall backwards before trying to rebuild. The concessions for GC and WS will hurt the dogs as they try and replace aging stars.
Contender Now: Falling backwards by 2012
Adelaide
A strong club that has a knack of being able to really develop players, they wont win a flag this year or next and high finishes will hurt them draft wise. Adelaide could pinch a flag, but I cant see it, if they didnt have the development record they have, then thered be major concerns, they will probably continue to play finals footy for a fair while but winning the ultimate prize at the moment seems far away in reality.
Contender Now: History shows they will be competitive in 5 years
Sydney
Dont like how they play footy, they are consistent finals performers, who should stay competitive but I see them a bit like Adelaide and afew others, they will there and there abouts but I dont think they will win a flag in the current environment, finishing high now will hurt them draft wise, they could fall backwards during the draft drought, with Sydney its to tough to tell but I know this, they're not developing enough youth to be big contenders for the after Geelong/Hawthorn period.
Average Now, Will not be contending in 5 years
North Melbourne
A very consistent club, they have tried to rebuild there key position stocks but they will to draft brilliantly to get into major contention. They should stay competitive for now, but I expect that they will be stranded mid table when the draft drought happens. They havent built enough quality youth and blokes like Lachlan Hansen seem to have gone missing.
Average Now, will not be contending in 5 years
Collingwood 6 3 3 0 119.7 12
They think Money is the be all and end all. At the end of 2008 it will have been 1 flag in 50 years. They have a great coach, some quality youngsters, but there continual high finishes will see them being punished down the track. They needed to secure early picks this year to drive through to compete with Geelong and Hawthorn over the next few years. I cant see how Collingwood can win a flag with the list they have and how it all pans out over the next 3 or 4 years.
Average now, probably just a finals side in 2012 at best
Brisbane
Leigh Matthews has got this side back up and running, I expect Brisbane will play finals and they will get another shot at it down the line. They have some fine young players, but Brown has injuries, Black and co. are getting on- if the midfield stays together over 3 or 4years they will be there and there abouts.
Developing side, probably still a finals side around 2012
St. Kilda
Gone. The window has closed. Will go backwards before going forwards. Dont like how they play. With draft concessions coming to new clubs the Saints are gone in premiership terms. Harvey will be leaving soon as well, Hughton and maybe afew others.
Cant see a flag for the saints. Not now and not in 5
Richmond
Has tried to rebuild since 2004, some players developing well. The major positive is the club has 15 to 20 players in an age group coming through together. Midfield coming along really well. Cotchin still to come, Defence KPP seem set with Moore developing at FB and Thursty on a 3rd defender. Rance has hope. Forwardline needs work. One KPP short NOW. Richardson retiring will be hard to replace. Low finish in 2008 will propel the club towards better times 4 years from now when the Geelong/Hawthorn time has come and gone. We may come good as other clubs start coming back to the field. Richmond needs to find a ruckman 200cm+. A key position forward and 2 midfielders who are both inside and outside. If we do that we will be right in the van down the track. A tanking 2008 will see us get half of or maybe 3/4 of what we need.
Average now, possible contender in 2012
Carlton
Should be one of our major competitors in 2011 and 2012, A fine midfield, developing forward line. They lack KPP in defence low finish in 2008 will give them access to decent talent again. Fevola will be 31/32 when they come good, that may be a problem for them. Anyway the blues should be an improver with lots of young talent coming along.
Average now possible contender in 2012
Port Adelaide
With Tredrea and afew others getting on Port may struggle down the track. A mid table 2008 finish wont help them. I think they will be middle of the road for a fair while, but they do have some very nice players like Boak.
Cant see a flag now or in the next 5
Essendon
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I shouldnt laugh. Maybe sheedys last draft where he picked up about 8 blokes will help them. Ryder is a good player, but theyre not as good as they think they are, and if they draft badly in 2008 they will be gone for a fair while. They have to many holes to fill as is.
Not a contender now, cant see them being one in 5 years
Fremantle
Basketcase, they have no hope, but they may get good picks this year. The reality is they traded picks for players and that will hurt them in 2010 onwards. I dont expect Freo to fire anytime soon. They just dont have enough quality young kids coming through.
No
West Coast
Have worked the system beautifully. Seem set to get good picks in a good year. If they trade Kerr they will secure more picks and more young talent. I expect to see them deep in the action 4 years from now.
Average now, will be good in 2012. A contender down the track.
Melbourne
Started to rebuild to late. We wont be seeing them playing for the big prize anytime soon. Infact Id be surprised to see them do anything this side of 2020. No KPPs, slow, some older players. Its a bad time for the demons.
No
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Nice analysis and summary Ramps :clapping.
Sydney and Brisbane will also be hurt by the new teams having first access to their respective state youngsters.
Geelong's test is going to be in 2012 and beyond. Can today's kittens replace Milburn, Harley, Mooney, Scarlett, Ottens, Wojcinski and Ling who'll all be in their eaerly 30s and possible retiredby then. Corey, Enright and Chapman are 26 going on 27 this year so they'll be hitting their 30s too in 4 years time.
Hawthorn are well set as you say Ramps. Only Crawf, Dew, Croad and Bateman are over 25 and of course Buddy and Roughead have just turned 21 so they have a decade ahead of them. A true tall KP defender and an explosive midfielder or two is what separates them from the ultimate prize IMO. They're ready to go now with 16 of their current best 22 peaking in that prime 22-27 age bracket.
As for us we've almost replaced basically the whole team over the past 4 years with U23-24s with the exception of Richo, Browny and Simmo. We've still got a fair way to go and not all our current cubs will make it, but a couple of good upcoming drafts along with Cotch and co at Coburg coming through should see us nicely set up for the upcoming decade by 2011-12.
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In 2010 and 2011 the AFL are thinking of allowing existing clubs to have just 2 picks as compulsory. The 3rd one which is compulsory now would be optional and may come from a promoted rookie. They're also thinking of allowing clubs to have as many as 12 rookies given there'll be more speculative choices due to the new clubs getting the earlier picks and the existing clubs forced to take later ones.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/clubs-to-get-draft-leeway/2008/05/10/1210131341948.html
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Surprised this Gold Coast proposal hasn't been mentioned. Crazy stuff if this goes ahead. It will totally screw teams that finish mid-ladder especially 9th-12th.
Coast in bid for 20 of top 24
Jake Niall | June 18, 2008
THE Gold Coast consortium has requested that it be given 20 of the first 24 picks in the draft the year before it enters the competition.
At a meeting with AFL and club officials last Friday, leading members of the consortium proposed that the new club be given picks 1-5 and 10-24 in the 2010 national draft, with the bottom four teams receiving picks 6,7, 8 and 9 in the normal reverse order.
The team that finished 12th on the ladder would fare terribly — losing 20 places in draft order, given that it would not have a draft choice until pick 25, unless it managed to trade for an earlier pick.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/coast-in-bid-for-20-of-top-24/2008/06/17/1213468424244.html
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Richmond will now hang onto Raines and McGuane until Gold Coast comes in. We probably need to trade 1 player of reasonable note for a decent pick if we can in this years draft as well. If we lose all games in the next 3 weeks I will be well and truly on the tank bandwagon.
yep...got no problem with that what so ever.....i'm fine with tanking provided we put in good performances with kids on the park....may as well tank while we can....priority picks dont' come by very often....esp good when this is another super draft...short term disapointement leads to brighter horizons..
I was advocating this last week peggles. Priority picks don't come around too often and we need to guard ourselves with as much quality talent as we can otherwise these two AFL pet projects will send clubs like us if the talent we already have aint that talented back to the stone age.
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We pretty much require a top 6 pick and need to aim for another high quailty prospect CHF type to add to Reiwoldt/Hughes.
Having not drafted a Gumbleton/Hawkins/Franklin type looks our great weakness down the track.
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We pretty much require a top 6 pick and need to aim for another high quailty prospect CHF type to add to Reiwoldt/Hughes.
Having not drafted a Gumbleton/Hawkins/Franklin type looks our great weakness down the track.
We haven't drafted a tall with a top 10 pick since Ottens. That's over 10 years ago! :o
Yep we need to go after one in this year's draft. Naitanui, Hurley, Trengrove (although he's gone for the season) are the only ones I can think of that are rated top 5/10 picks. I haven't seen the U18's this year live yet to judge any of the other draftees like a Watts.
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We pretty much require a top 6 pick and need to aim for another high quailty prospect CHF type to add to Reiwoldt/Hughes.
Having not drafted a Gumbleton/Hawkins/Franklin type looks our great weakness down the track.
We haven't drafted a tall with a top 10 pick since Ottens. That's over 10 years ago! :o
Yep we need to go after one in this year's draft. Naitanui, Hurley, Trengrove (although he's gone for the season) are the only ones I can think of that are rated top 5/10 picks. I haven't seen the U18's this year live yet to judge any of the other draftees like a Watts.
What ya talking about? We drafted JON topm 10 ;D
We have won too many games for Naitanui. I dont want Hurley, nor a kid thats gone for the season.
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We pretty much require a top 6 pick and need to aim for another high quailty prospect CHF type to add to Reiwoldt/Hughes.
Having not drafted a Gumbleton/Hawkins/Franklin type looks our great weakness down the track.
We haven't drafted a tall with a top 10 pick since Ottens. That's over 10 years ago! :o
Yep we need to go after one in this year's draft. Naitanui, Hurley, Trengrove (although he's gone for the season) are the only ones I can think of that are rated top 5/10 picks. I haven't seen the U18's this year live yet to judge any of the other draftees like a Watts.
What ya talking about? We drafted JON topm 10 ;D
We have won too many games for Naitanui. I dont want Hurley, nor a kid thats gone for the season.
Not a Hurley fan Bents?
I guessing you're joking about JON being a tall when we could have had Mitch Clark instead.
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Watts would be nice, then Hurley as a 2nd option
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Now they want 3 straight drafts to themselves :help
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West Sydney could raid draft cream from 2010-2012
Jon Pierik | July 31, 2008
THE AFL'S West Sydney franchise could ask for priority picks in the national drafts from 2010-12 in a bid to ensure it is immediately competitive.
AFL NSW chief executive Dale Holmes yesterday outlined this option as part of a presentation to club chiefs on the first day of a two-day conference at Yuroke, outside Melbourne.
West Sydney is set to become the league's 18th team in 2012 - a year after the Gold Coast franchise has joined.
Holmes presented an update on West Sydney's "seven streams of work".
"We gave them an overview of the opportunities and the challenges, and gave them a sense of where we are making some good ground," Holmes said.
"It encompasses looking at facilities, stadia and asset developments for the club and revenue streams and the way we can develop the fan base."
A key issue for the club, the AFL and television networks is giving West Sydney every chance to taste success in its formative years in a market dominated by rugby league.
As well as wanting exclusive access to young NSW and ACT talent in certain areas, West Sydney may ask for first dibs at the game's best talent in three straight national drafts.
The Gold Coast is expected to raid the 2010 draft.
"Our draft paper is looking at participating in the national draft in 2010, 2011, potentially 2012," Holmes said.
"Whether that straddles over two or three drafts, we are just looking at the options there."
While Collingwood president Eddie McGuire wants a rethink of the AFL's ambitious expansion plans because of tightening global finances, Holmes said clubs still backed the move.
"I think there is conviction about the need to grow the game into the northern markets," Holmes said.
Club chiefs will also be addressed by GC17 boss John Witheriff.
Club stadium deals and special assistance for poorer clubs are other agenda items.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24103936-19742,00.html
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Let them have their 3 drafts in a row..... on one condition.
Greg Beck is their recruiter/list manager. :lol
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With Miller and his love of chasing the big fish gone, I guess we'll be fairly quiet participants during trade week and we'll keep hold of our picks especially our first pick. Not a bad thing.
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Depends on who we replace him though?
Interesting article i saw somewhere about C Schwab and his penchance for chasing the big name like Miller...
Doesn't inspire confidence if he does get the gig...
More than anything i hope millers replacement is someone who thinks the best way to improve a list and keep it strong is by drafting kids
and rarely trading for players..
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I have a question for you - in three years when our forcast window begins to open, who will we have to replace Simmonds? Ruckman typically take longer to develop than other player types so the question for us and the club is do we believe Gus and/or Putt will be ready to step into the position?
It is a big risk so recruiting a young ruckman such as Warnock for a 2nd round pick could actually be the wisest option to take in the long run because it is the one glaring weakeness we have.
Stripes
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Im not against trading, for example Mitch Morton was a very good trade, if we can find another trade like this then we should do it.
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Morton came cheapish at a 3rd round pick. It's trading away your early picks (a club's future) that gets clubs in strife down the track.
I have a question for you - in three years when our forcast window begins to open, who will we have to replace Simmonds? Ruckman typically take longer to develop than other player types so the question for us and the club is do we believe Gus and/or Putt will be ready to step into the position?
It is a big risk so recruiting a young ruckman such as Warnock for a 2nd round pick could actually be the wisest option to take in the long run because it is the one glaring weakeness we have.
Stripes
Well if you believe some of the rumours Warnock to Richmond is a done deal but I find that hard to believe. With Melbourne and Carlton also circling for a ruckman that will push Warnock's trade price up. Cameron Wood cost the Pies a late 1st round pick last year for instance. We would need Warnock to come out and say to Freo he wants to go home and we're the only club he wants to go to and then hope the AFL, afraid of the free agency push from the AFLPA, will then be keen to push a deal through to make sure Warnock gets to his club of choice. Too many ifs and maybes for mine to get Warnock for a 2nd round pick and under no circumstances should we trade our top 10 pick in this last untampered draft.
I know Miller said a month ago the club has high hopes for Gus when we said to Greg we need to find another ruckman. The club expected him to play a few games this year but that broken ankle he sustained late last year significantly interrupted his preseason. According to Greg, Gus had lost a bit of his agility and will need the upcoming full preseason to regain it.
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AFL set to create compo formula
Jake Niall | August 22, 2008
THE AFL is expected to introduce a formula that will determine compensation clubs receive for losing players to the new Gold Coast team.
Under the proposal, which the AFL Commission will discuss and is likely to adopt, clubs that lose a player — contracted or not — would be compensated on the basis of a formula that takes into account games played, age and various achievements such as best-and-fairest finishes.
In the event that a club is unhappy with its compensation, the AFL might have an appeals process that gives it a chance at securing a better deal.
An appeals system will be considered by the commission when it determines the recruiting rules for the start-up club.
For example, if Richmond lost Brett Deledio to the Gold Coast team at the end of 2010, the formula would dictate that the Tigers would receive a first-round draft pick — but the key question would obviously be the number of the first-round pick.
It is almost certain, too, that the club that lost the player would have the option of making the draft pick "bankable" and it could defer using the pick until another year.
The formula would not differentiate between contracted and uncontracted players.
Two options have been considered for how the AFL determines what a club receives in return for losing a player to the new club.
One was the formula, which would be based on various factors in a player's history; the other was that an AFL-appointed panel would determine what was appropriate compensation.
It is understood that the AFL administration has a preference for a formula, because a subjective judgement on players becomes very difficult and open to debate.
An appeals process would be a safety net in the event that there is a clear disparity between a player's value and the return.
Sources also have confirmed that the new club will be given a very strong hand in the 2010 draft — with either the first five draft choices or alternative picks 1, 3, 5, 7 and so forth in the first round.
The Gold Coast is expected to be granted access to 12 17-year-olds in the 2009 draft — the 17-year-olds being ineligible for that draft because the minimum age is being raised to 18 years as of January 1. These players will be bound to the new club, but tradeable if they don't agree to sign with the Gold Coast.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/afl-set-to-create-compo-formula/2008/08/21/1219262414249.html
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......These players will be bound to the new club, but tradeable if they don't agree to sign with the Gold Coast.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/afl-set-to-create-compo-formula/2008/08/21/1219262414249.html
So we could get in the ear of a KPP or ruck and get them to request a trade to Richmond and we could then give them one of our surplus outside flankers ?????
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:o
Gold Coast's numbers come up in 2010 national draft
Mike Sheahan | August 28, 2008
THE new Gold Coast club will have the first three picks in the 2010 national draft among nine first-round selections.
Gold Coast will have picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15, and then take top spot in each subsequent round.
That means the bottom team in 2010 will have pick No. 4, with that year's premier having to wait until selection 25 for its first pick.
While clubs at, or near, the bottom of the ladder will be aghast at the drain on the best young talent in the country, seven of the existing 16 clubs were represented on the sub-committee that produced the formula.
It was adopted by the AFL Commission at its meeting on Monday, and will bring a warm smile to the faces of Gold Coast coach Guy McKenna and recruiting manager Scott Clayton.
Gold Coast also will have access to a maximum of one out-of-contract player from each of the existing clubs after the 2010 season.
That's on top of a selection of up to 20 of the best under-18 prospects in Queensland during the next two years, three of whom have already been claimed.
Clubs that lose out-of-contract players to the Gold Coast will be compensated with a draft choice to be determined, a choice that may be exercised any time during the subsequent five national drafts.
The AFL is likely to announce the draft package to club chief executives at league headquarters today.
The meeting had been called to announce details of the AFL's refined drugs policy, which will retain the three strikes but subject players to hair-testing, as tipped for several months.
While the Gold Coast package will shock supporters of Melbourne and other clubs fearful of being near the bottom in 2010, it is no more generous than the assistance Fremantle, Port Adelaide and West Coast received.
The AFL wisely involved club representatives in the exercise, which means both the interests of the competition and the clubs have been acknowledged.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24252779-19742,00.html
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Gold Coast will have picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15, and then take top spot in each subsequent round.
Gold Coast also will have access to a maximum of one out-of-contract player from each of the existing clubs after the 2010 season.
Clubs that lose out-of-contract players to the Gold Coast will be compensated with a draft choice to be determined, a choice that may be exercised any time during the subsequent five national drafts.
So in 2004 they would've got Lids, Roughead, Griffen, Buddy and Lewis in one hit with just the first 5 of those picks :P.
I even more now just hope we hold onto our picks this year and try to gain another top 25-30 pick because you need all the top kids you can get your hands on before 2010. Ironic that Sydney now on the slide and with an aging list could really suffer the most from this draft decimation when the AFL wants to introduce a second Sydney team.
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AFL has announced the official draft concessions for GC17:
2010 draft
9 first round picks - 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15
The the first pick in each subsequent round of the 2010 draft.
Access to 16 uncontracted players. They will be allowed to poach more than one player from an existing club if they aren't having much luck with getting one player from each and every club.
An existing club who loses a player will receive a draft pick as compensation which can be used in any future draft.
The last uncompromised draft will be next year (I think the age limit is staying but not for GC17 who will be able to pick up the underage 17 year olds).
Your thoughts?
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Great for the Tigers as we already have our core 12 - 18 kids. This will hurt the Saints, Swans, North with older lists as it will stuff up their list managent for 3 - 4 years by that time our kids will be 26 - 27 and primed for premiership glory.
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Next year's draft will be compromised as GC17 get access to the Qld players before the draft, similar to this year. Given the quality of the talent up there at the moment, this isn't too great a loss though and hopefully will be a strong draft due to the shifting of the age eligibility this year.
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You're right Infamy. The Gold Coast will also get the first 5 rookie draft picks in 2009.
THE ENTRY Rules for GC17 into the AFL are as follows:
1. 2009 NAB AFL Draft:
GC17 to have the capacity to sign 12 x 17 year-olds born in the January – April window (Jan-April 1992).
2. 2009 NAB Rookie Draft:
GC17 to have Selections 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.
3. 2010 NAB AFL Draft:
GC17 to have Pick One in Each Round.
GC 17 to have Picks 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15 in Round One.
4. 2010 NAB Rookie Draft
GC17 to alternate Queensland priority selections with Brisbane Lions. GC17 to have first selection.
5. Zoned Access
GC17 to have zoned access to up to five Queensland players prior to each of 2010, 2011 and 2012 NAB AFL Drafts.
GC17 to have zoned access to up to three Northern Territory player prior to the 2010 NAB AFL Draft
6. 2010 Post Season, AFL Listed Played Access
GC17 to have capacity to pre-list 10 players who had previously nominated for the AFL Draft, or were previously listed with an AFL club.
7. 2010 Post Season Uncontracted AFL Player Access
GC17 to have capacity to sign up to 16 uncontracted players. The Club that loses the uncontracted player receives a compensatory pick.
The compensatory pick number will be assessed around the uncontracted player's age, club contract ranking, on-field performance and draft position by a selected panel.
This panel will then determine if a club is eligible for a compensatory pick in one of five spots - first-round pick, end of first round, second-round, end of second round or third-round.
A first-round pick cannot be used in the 2010 or 2011 drafts.
But other selections can be exercised in the 2010-14 drafts.
Teams must nominate if they will use their compensatory pick before the season even begins.
8. Total Player Payments and Salary Cap Concessions
GC17 will so have an expanded list size and TPP (Total Player Payment) allowance in the club’s initial four years from 2011 to 2014, which would be as follows:
2011 – 48 senior list, nine rookies with $1m TPP extra allowance;
2012 – 46 senior list, nine rookies with $800k TPP extra allowance;
2013 – 42 senior list, nine rookies with $600k TPP extra allowance;
2014 – 40 senior list, nine rookies with $400k TPP extra allowance;
2015 – 38 senior list, nine rookies in line with other AFL clubs.
2010 NAB AFL Draft: (Example Draft Order before trading)
Round One
1 GC17
2 GC17
3 GC17
4 Club 16 on 2010 ladder
5 GC17
6 Club 15 on 2010 ladder
7 GC17
8 Club 14 on 2010 ladder
9 GC17
10 Club 13 on 2010 ladder
11 GC17
12 Club 12 on 2010 ladder
13 GC17
14 Club 11 on 2010 ladder
15 GC17
16 Club 10 on 2010 ladder
17 Club 9 on 2010 ladder
18 Club 8 on 2010 ladder
19 Club 7 on 2010 ladder
20 Club 6 on 2010 ladder
21 Club 5 on 2010 ladder
22 Club 4 on 2010 ladder
23 Club 3 on 2010 ladder
24 Club 2 on 2010 ladder
25 Club 1 on 2010 ladder
Round Two
26 GC17
27 Club 16 on 2010 ladder
28 Club 15 on 2010 ladder
29 Club 14 on 2010 ladder
30 Club 13 on 2010 ladder
31 Club 12 on 2010 ladder
32 Club 11 on 2010 ladder
33 Club 10 on 2010 ladder
34 Club 9 on 2010 ladder
35 Club 8 on 2010 ladder
36 Club 7 on 2010 ladder
37 Club 6 on 2010 ladder
38 Club 5 on 2010 ladder
39 Club 4 on 2010 ladder
40 Club 3 on 2010 ladder
41 Club 2 on 2010 ladder
42 Club 1 on 2010 ladder
Round Three
43 GC 17
44 Club 16 on 2010 ladder
45 Club 15 on 2010 ladder
46 Club 14 on 2010 ladder
47 Club 13 on 2010 ladder
48 Club 12 on 2010 ladder
49 Club 11 on 2010 ladder
50 Club 10 on 2010 ladder
51 Club 9 on 2010 ladder
52 Club 8 on 2010 ladder
53 Club 7 on 2010 ladder
54 Club 6 on 2010 ladder
55 Club 5 on 2010 ladder
56 Club 4 on 2010 ladder
57 Club 3 on 2010 ladder
58 Club 2 on 2010 ladder
59 Club 1 on 2010 ladder
http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=67076
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24296088-19742,00.html
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idiots. :banghead
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Did I hear somewhere that Andy D and the dills at AFL House are "expecting" 5-6 wins and a % of 80 odd from the Gold Coast in their first season?
This whole thing is a joke...
For a club that hasn't yet been given a license they certainly are doing quite nicely for themselves ::) ::)
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The main concern for mine is the change to allow GC17 the ability to poach more than one player from one existing club. It has all the hallmarks of 1995 when Sydney wanted both Maxfield and Naish off us and in the end we lost Maxfield.
And what's with a selected panel deciding on a player's worth. Who will be on this panel and what recourse will an existing club have if they think they are being robbed and dudded. Imagine if Walls or Healy were on this selected panel deciding on a Richmond player's worth :help. We'll probably get from them Lids for a third rounder whereas Walls reckons Jordan Russell is worth 3 top 5 picks ::). What happened to valuing a player in the free market (trade week) in a transaction between the two clubs and if what's offered isn't good enough then no deal. We're not a charity for Demetriou's delusions of granduer.
GC17 will obviously be eyeing off McGuane and Raines. Hopefully we have all our best cubs all sealed and signed up past 2010 but then.
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Just need to make sure that our required players are all signed up past 2010.
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They can have Raines for a First rounder, i got no problem with that at all. Even take a 2nd rounder for him.
mcguane-tell them to go stick it where the sun dont shine
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GC17 is already chasing are uncontracted players. Every club is expected to give up one player.
Gold Coast begins to entice players north
Jake Niall | March 16, 2009
MORE than two years before the club is slated to become the AFL's 17th club, the Gold Coast has already started preliminary talks aimed at luring uncontracted players from the 16 clubs.
A higher-than-usual proportion of the game's biggest names come out of contract at the end of 2010, including Lance Franklin, Gary Ablett, Nick Riewoldt, Jarryd Roughead and Matthew Pavlich.
Some managers have sought to have their players coming out of contract then in the knowledge that the Gold Coast will create enormous leverage for them.
Under the expected recruiting rules, the Gold Coast will have the right to sign one player from every club, and there will be a compensation formula involving draft picks, the age of the player and his remuneration.
Some managers and clubs believe that the Gold Coast could even create a rugby league-like situation in which players are known to be leaving their club and heading north a year or so before they depart.
This view is based upon the industry belief that the Gold Coast will need to secure uncontracted players very early, otherwise they will be re-signed before the new club has a chance to strike.
The Gold Coast will have draft picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 and 9 and nine of the top 15 selections in the 2010 draft, plus access to the 12 best 17-year-olds — who cannot be drafted this year — in 2009. Both picks and the 17-year-olds will be tradeable.
Full article at:
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/gold-coast-to-entice-players-north/2009/03/15/1237054650536.html
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Anna Bligh's Qld Labor won the state election yesterday so that means now full steam ahead for the new Gold Coast club, new stadium and the swag of draft concessions they will be getting.
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We had a chat with Francis Jackson at training today about the Gold Coast team and all the draft concessions they are getting. The more in detail you go into it the more you realise how much of an affect it will have on the comp and the existing teams. Even this year with the age cutoff reduced from April back to December means the choice of kids has effectively been reduced by a third.
The Gold Coast being able to grab twelve 17 year olds at the end of this year means they'll probably grab 10-12 first rounders who would've been in the 2010 draft. Then add the first 3 picks in the actual 2010 draft and they'll gain the best 15 kids next year plus picks 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 to come. So the AFL has decided to build the GC17 list from the best of the 2010 draft pool. This all means the 2010 premiers won't have access until say the 38th best kid. Even a side that comes 9th :P will only be getting the 30th best kid as their first pick.
West Sydney list will be built across two drafts 2011-12 with the same draft concessions. Francis said they've modelled these concessions across the 2006-08 drafts and you end up with a dreamteam of the current crop of youngsters. If you were a new club 3 years ago you wouldn't be trading away these picks for quids. The only downer for GC17 is the 2010 pool is apparently not strong. No Cotchins.
I said clubs will have to trade a player to GC17 to work their way back into the first round of the draft. Francis said that's the other concession they get as they can target a uncontracted player from each club and that club gets a draft pick as compensation based on some formula based on age of the uncontracted player and games played.
He thinks we'll be okay as most of our list is under 24. Our problem is still that 24-28 y.o. gap. Even with our 30+ year olds retiring over the next few years, our current young crop will be starting to hit their prime age by then to take over. I hope he's right.
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Gold Coast wish list in the GC Bulletin:
F: Kurt Tippett David Hale Lewis Moss
HF: Michael Osborne Nick Riewoldt Marc Lock
C: Ryan Griffen Dayne Beams Dale Thomas
HB: Ricky Petterd Tom Williams Lindsay Gilbee
B: Andrew Raines Daniel Merrett Luke McGuane
R: Brent Renouf Bryce Gibbs Jed Adcock
INT: Rex Liddy, Nathan Ablett, Zac Smith, Luke Shreeve
EMG Rory Thompson Dayne Zorko Jack Stanlake
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2009/04/08/67395_gold-coast-afl.html
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They can have Raines.
Not the end of the world if McGaune goes either.
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It's unusual for those outside the club to rate a player far more highly than our own supporters. Rainesy seems to be that player. It must be absence makes the heart grow fonder lol as he's been injured for most of the past 18 months.
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AFL secret draft for Gold Coast's uncontracted player swoop
Jon Ralph | May 06, 2009 09:05pm
THE AFL has settled on compensation criteria for clubs whose players are poached by the Gold Coast, but will keep them secret.
Gold Coast recruiting manager Scott Clayton has until the end of next season to lure one uncontracted player from each rival club before the new team begins playing in 2012.
The AFL revealed yesterday salary cap investigator Ken Wood would govern the compensation scheme.
The formula will take into account players' ages, best-and-fairest finishes in recent years, and rank of earning power at their club, as well as draft selection number if they have been at their club less than four years.
But the exact weighting of those criteria will be kept in-house so clubs cannot manipulate them to boost the compensation they receive.
A club could easily boost a best-and-fairest ranking or change player payment structures if it was obvious that player was about to depart for the Gold Coast.
The spectre of clubs losing star players to the Gold Coast is set to be the main talking point of the 2010 season.
AFL legal and business affairs manager Andrew Dillon confirmed yesterday the compensation had been set for the expected meat market that will follow next season.
He said clubs could ask the AFL what the compensation draft pick would be for a particular player, and while they would be informed, they will not know how it was formulated.
"The criteria will be available, but the weightings provided for each one will be proprietary to the AFL," Dillon said.
Compensation selections will be divided into five categories: first-round draft pick, end of first round, second round, end of second round, and third round.
If a club loses a player, it can use the pick immediately or in any of the next five years.
Wood will take charge of the scheme, because he is the only person allowed to know how much players are paid.
Dillon said the AFL believed it had the weightings right.
"We have modelled it on 10-15 players across the league at the end of last year, and we think it was pretty representative," he said.
COMPENSATION RULES
IF AN uncontracted player leaves for the Gold Coast, these factors will be considered before a compensation pick is given:
- What age bracket the player is in, and games played.
- The calibre of his best-and-fairest finishes in previous seasons.
- Where he sits in terms of earnings compared to teammates. Is he ranked from 1-6 or 7-12?
- The draft pick used to select him if he had played four or less years.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25435727-19742,00.html
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Could some clubs now give fringe players a few extra votes in the B&F to try and boost their value??
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Could some clubs now give fringe players a few extra votes in the B&F to try and boost their value??
Yes. We should do that with McGuane and Raines too this year. I wouldn't be heartbroken if we lost Raines but losing McGuane would hurt us IMHO.
Stripes
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Richo amazing return to form to lead the developing GC team goalkickers in his last year of AFL footy 2011, after being delisted by perennial 9th (soon to be 10th) place getter Richmond in 2010.
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Most of our top 10 B&F finishers have been our mature players despite Lids winning the JDM last year so unless there's a big call by the new coach (trading Tucky for instance) then the B&F criteria doesn't do us much favours :-\
2005
1st: Joel Bowden 221
2nd: Matthew Richardson 220
3rd: Shane Tuck 197
4th: Darren Gaspar 184
5th: Mark Coughlan 172
6th: Chris Newman 171
7th: Kane Johnson 147
8th: Wayne Campbell 141
9th: Troy Simmonds 140
10th: Nathan Brown 129
2006
1 - Kane Johnson (226)
2 - Andrew Raines (223)
3 - Troy Simmonds (215)
4 - Joel Bowden (204)
5 - Kayne Pettifer (186)
6 - Greg Tivendale (172)
7 - Matthew Richardson (164)
8 - Patrick Bowden (160)
9 - Dean Polo (152)
10 - Shane Tuck (151)
2007
1st Matthew Richardson 214 votes
2nd Nathan Foley 213
3rd Shane Tuck 181
4th Joel Bowden 176
5th Brett Deledio 161
6th Kayne Pettifer 158
7th Graham Polak 152
8th Chris Newman 134
9th Kane Johnson 133
10th Jake King 129
2008
1. Brett Deledio 250
2. Shane Tuck 223
3. Matthew Richardson 203
4. Chris Newman 196
5. Kelvin Moore 186
6. Troy Simmonds 184
7. Nathan Foley 182
8. Jordan McMahon 162
9. Nathan Brown 161
10. Kane Johnson 155
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So just clear this up for me please; is it this up and coming draft where the QLD team gets all the picks or the following one??
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So just clear this up for me please; is it this up and coming draft where the QLD team gets all the picks or the following one??
Next year's draft is when GC17 gets all the early picks in the National draft. However this year they get the choice of the best 17 year olds as the draftee birthdate cutoff for the 16 existing clubs is now 31st December 1991 rather than 30 April 1992. So effectively the usual draft pool has been cut by a third this year.
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Mmmm thanks MT, not good for us then we had better start and keep winning.
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So just clear this up for me please; is it this up and coming draft where the QLD team gets all the picks or the following one??
Next year's draft is when GC17 gets all the early picks in the National draft. However this year they get the choice of the best 17 year olds as the draftee birthdate cutoff for the 16 existing clubs is now 31st December 1991 rather than 30 April 1992. So effectively the usual draft pool has been cut by a third this year.
Although this is true they must first agree to being drafted by GC17.
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Mmmm thanks MT, not good for us then we had better start and keep winning.
Or if you're going to tank then this year is your last chance although if Melbourne and West Coast don't win 4 games this season then even a wooden spoon would still see you with pick 3 at best which means no Butcher or Scully anyway :-\. It'll be the Carlton situation in 2007 all over again except it'd be like missing out on both Kreuzer and Cotchin with two teams having priority pre-first round picks.
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So just clear this up for me please; is it this up and coming draft where the QLD team gets all the picks or the following one??
Next year's draft is when GC17 gets all the early picks in the National draft. However this year they get the choice of the best 17 year olds as the draftee birthdate cutoff for the 16 existing clubs is now 31st December 1991 rather than 30 April 1992. So effectively the usual draft pool has been cut by a third this year.
Although this is true they must first agree to being drafted by GC17.
True HMH but if they don't agree they run the risk of waiting 12 more months to be drafted and if they are in the top bracket in 12 months time then GC17 can just draft them anyway with all the early picks they've been given. The AFL is effectively offloading the 2010 draft to GC17 in two waves to fill their list. The AFL will then do the same for West Sydney except two drafts will be used (2011 and 2012) to build the WS list. The AFL will do everything in its power to make WS quickly a success onfield given the pipedream risk it is off-field.
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Astute clubs can reap rewards from AFL's Gold Coast expansion
Jon Ralph | May 20, 2009
WHILE supporters fear losing stars to the Gold Coast, a host of rival clubs are already planning how they can benefit.
The Gold Coast side has the potential to lure one uncontracted player from each club, with the Herald Sun this week revealing Luke Hodge, Jarryd Roughead and Joel Selwood are at the top of the wish list.
But while clubs are aware the Gold Coast's war chest will inevitably prise some players free, they will not go down without a fight.
They are aware the Gold Coast side has nine of the first 15 selections in the 2011 draft, some of which it will almost certainly trade away.
The clubs will also receive compensation in the form of draft picks if an uncontracted player takes off for the sun and sand of the Gold Coast.
So an astute club willing to give up either an ageing veteran or a player from an area in which it has depth might reap rewards.
Where some supporters see crisis, clubs see opportunity.
"It's not going to be a perfect outcome for everyone," Collingwood chief executive Gary Pert said.
"There will be winners and losers. We are in a competitive footy world.
"The natural inclination from our supporters and members is to see the worst-case scenario.
"For the clubs, we say, 'Where is the opportunity?'.
"Some of the opportunities, if we set up well and plan for them, could be great for the Collingwood footy club."
Melbourne chief executive Cameron Schwab was part of the six-man delegation from AFL clubs who helped the Gold Coast list formation working party.
He looks back to history to see how clubs can benefit.
"Essendon (Scott Lucas, Matthew Lloyd) and Adelaide (Andrew McLeod) did very well out of Fremantle starting up," Schwab said.
"Clubs have always done well out of expansion clubs starting up.
"But if you have a player in the system who is two or three years into their career and he's living up to expectations, there is almost no compensation for that."
Geelong chief executive Brian Cook steadfastly refuses to discuss individual contracts, but says clubs will seek to exploit the Gold Coast.
"Absolutely. Clubs have to try to turn a few of these things into strategies for themselves, how best to take advantage if they can," Cook said.
"Whether that's by trading picks or whatever, it's very much about coming up with ways to beat the system."
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25509492-19742,00.html
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Gold Coast granted dream ride at next two AFL drafts
Jon Ralph | May 27, 2009
THE new Gold Coast side will receive the equivalent of five first-round draft picks this year, even before next season's massive allocation of concessions and uncontracted players.
The Gold Coast has been awarded its pick of a dozen 17-year-old juniors with birthdates between January 1, 1992, and April 30, 1992, before this year's national draft.
And with the AIS-AFL Academy squad of teenagers wowing coaching staff on its recent trip to South Africa, the new club seems set to pick up a pot of gold.
Half of the members of the 30-man Academy squad are eligible this year to be taken by Gold Coast recruiter Scott Clayton, with rival clubs unable to select any player born after December 31, 1991.
On average there are five 17-year-olds taken in the first round of each national draft, with more than 20 overall in last year's national draft.
Last year's first-round picks Jack Watts (pick No. 1), Jack Ziebell (No. 9), Steele Sidebottom (No. 11), Lewis Johnson (No. 12) and Sam Blease (No. 17) were 17-year-olds, with 28 per cent of last year's draft in that age bracket.
The Gold Coast also receives picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 in the national draft of 2010, as well as the first selection of subsequent rounds.
The first draft selection awarded to next year's premier will be equivalent to a normal third-round pick.
The stars of the AIS-AFL Academy include Tasmanian midfielder Maverick Weller and Calder Cannons half-back flanker Joshua Toy.
Toy played stuff against Bulldog forward Scott Welsh when the AIS-AFL squad played Williamstown this year, and more than held his own.
Queensland junior prodigy and Academy member Rex Liddy, the nephew of NRL star Matt Bowen, will be zoned to the Gold Coast and contracted GC17 talls Zac Smith and Charlie Dixon shape as future stars.
Alex Keath, a centre half-forward from Brighton Grammar, and Cam O'Shea, a tall utility from the Eastern Ranges, are also considered as 17-year-old recruiting targets this year.
Gold Coast coach Guy McKenna and Clayton accompanied the AIS-AFL squad on its recent trip to South Africa to scrutinise its potential.
Not only will the 17-year-olds increase the Gold Coast's draft booty, their lack of availability to the existing 16 clubs will suck the 2009 national draft of depth and quality.
Clubs often take 17-year-olds as speculative picks late in the draft, aware they may flourish the following season.
The Hawks took 17-year-olds with three of their five picks this year, aware the draft age was to rise to 18.
One AFL recruiter said the Gold Coast was sitting on a future goldmine.
"It's a very nice haul, and it's going to irk more people than it was previously thought," he said.
"With the current rules, at least we had the opportunity to select 17-year-olds in the draft. But we don't even get that, so the advantage (to the Gold Coast) is even greater."
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25543916-19742,00.html
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The biggest consession here IMHO is not the 17 year olds but more the rookie draft. The GC will have the first 5 choices in this years rookie draft which has proved a gold mine for un in recent years. What this means for us though is that we need to get players later in the ND which in turn means getting rid of more players from our list. We can have 8 players on our rookie list this year but if the first pick comes at 6 even if we come last this draft has been undermined in a more damaging way than rising the draft age for the National Draft IMO.
This whole new club and its effect on us will create a very tactical environment over the next few years for all clubs.
Stripes
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The biggest consession here IMHO is not the 17 year olds but more the rookie draft. The GC will have the first 5 choices in this years rookie draft which has proved a gold mine for un in recent years. What this means for us though is that we need to get players later in the ND which in turn means getting rid of more players from our list. We can have 8 players on our rookie list this year but if the first pick comes at 6 even if we come last this draft has been undermined in a more damaging way than rising the draft age for the National Draft IMO.
This whole new club and its effect on us will create a very tactical environment over the next few years for all clubs.
Stripes
Might find this year will be a very different trade week - might be very active as opposed to the previous few 'bore-a-thons'.
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The more a hear about the consessions the GC will get over the next two drafts follwed by the consessions the West Sydney team will get in subsequent draft proceeding those years the more I urge the club to TANK. This is our last chance to build up a team that we will be practically locked in for years to come.
Stripes
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The free ride the GC17 franchise is getting is sickening
They could easily end up a far bigger juggernaut than Brisbane ever were
Clearly they may struggle to keep all their stars under the salary cap eventually, but we know they're getting benefits there too
They're effectively mortgaging the entire competition for a single team, not to mention the West Sydney team will get something similar shortly after
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Gold Coast is clear for draft gold
Damian Barrett | July 11, 2009
AFL commissioners are too professional to publicly gloat. But, rest assured, there has been a lot of in-house high-fiving and heel clicking in the months since they officially granted list-management concessions for the Gold Coast team.
Exactly how the commission managed to convince the 16 existing clubs to provide such a gift to the new team, which will join the national competition in 2011, remains baffling.
Especially when the clubs did so knowing they would also have to give the Western Sydney outfit, which will join the AFL in 2012, similar player-drafting favours.
For those who have forgotten or not yet absorbed the concessions given to Gold Coast, prepare to be shocked in coming months - and again late next year - when the talent pool will be raided.
At this year's national draft, Gold Coast recruiter Scott Clayton has been empowered to select the 12 17-year-olds he deems to be the best in the country.
In the 2010 draft, Clayton, if he can bring himself to stop salivating, will load right up with players chosen at picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15.
Those teenagers will join big-name players from other clubs snared by the Gold Coast under another AFL Commission-enforced concession.
Gold Coast has rights to 16 - a maximum of one from each club - uncontracted players next year.
But wait, there is more. The new club will be given the first five picks in this year's rookie draft.
And that is on top of already having had unfettered access to up to 15 Queensland-based teenagers for three years from 2010.
For its first four seasons, Gold Coast will be allowed to operate with an expanded list as well as pay its players more than all other clubs, including $1 million extra in 2011.
It is astonishing what Gold Coast has been granted.
Sure, it was important the new franchise be given significant support from the outset, but the raft of allowances will destroy an already compromised drafting system and, by extension, place even further pressure on struggling existing clubs.
Seven senior football club officials were appointed by the AFL to act on a sub-committee in discussions relating to concessions given to the Gold Coast.
Ian Robson, Cameron Schwab and Steven Trigg (chief executives of Hawthorn, Melbourne and Adelaide), Andrew Ireland and Graeme Allan (football department heads at Sydney and Brisbane) and Stephen Wells and Derek Hine (chief recruiters at Geelong and Collingwood) joined AFL officials on the committee.
The same men will also be the representative club group for the same discussions that will be had about Western Sydney.
Unless the existing 16 clubs show some clout, which they refused to display when it came to the Gold Coast deliberations, Western Sydney will also benefit from a lucrative set of drafting favours.
The AFL does not want its new teams languishing for years down the bottom of the ladder.
While that is sound ideology, it is just as easy to mount an argument that having those teams artificially pitch-forked in to the finals would be just as damaging for the competition.
Try convincing a supporter of the Western Bulldogs, whose only flag came 55 years ago, that it will be good for football to have the Gold Coast present itself as a premiership force within years of being born.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25762053-19742,00.html
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I've posted the full West Sydney concessions on the draft board but basically they get everything GC17 did plus a few extra cherries on top.
2010:
Twelve 17-year olds (born Jan-Apr 1993)
First 8 picks in the rookie draft
2011:
National draft picks 1,2,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,27,45,63,81
2011-12:
Four 17 year olds (born Jan-Apr 1994) who can be traded to existing clubs in exchange for ready-made experienced players over a two year period.
Pre-list 10 players who had previously nominated for the AFL Draft, or were previously listed with an AFL club. If the club does not sign 10 players after the 2011 season, it can sign the balance of up to 10 players at the end of the 2012 season.
Capacity to sign up to 16 uncontracted players (one per existing club). If 16 not signed in 2011 the balance can be signed in 2012
Full concessions listed here:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/86208/default.aspx
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/86214/default.aspx
In terms of a existing club rebuilding like us:
the wooden spooner ends up with picks 4, 28, 46, 64, 82
Concession picks for losing an uncontracted player are usable and tradable for 5 years (until 2015). You can't use it until 2012 and you have to nominate when you are using it prior to the start of the season.
AFL clubs can now select a second mature-aged rookie in this year's NAB AFL Rookie Draft, to be held in December. Previously, it could select just one. This rule will be in place until the end of 2012.
Other aspects of the new rookie rules include:
* Any payment above the minimum payment for rookies to be included in the Total Player Payments (TPP).
* This amendment to apply until the end of the 2012 season when the number of mature age rookies would reduce to the current level of one per club
* That clubs have the right to retain rookie list players for three seasons without having to enter the draft, subject to the player being given the option of entering the NAB AFL Draft.
As announced in August, two other rules were brought in immediately. Clubs were able to trade rookies in the recent exchange period and in the upcoming NAB AFL Draft,
And in the upcoming NAB AFL Draft, elevated rookies will be counted as a compulsory selection.
Clubs which have already signed NSW scholarship players will also be given the option of trading them to GWS or Sydney Swans.
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It takes 7 years on average to go from bottom feeder to premiership contender according to the Australian...
Rivals rush to rebuild as draft stuff disappears
Stephen Rielly | October 21, 2009
Not as difficult, though, as it will be for those clubs who, with dreadful timing, are poised to embark on a reconstruction effort. Richmond and North Melbourne come to mind.
A rebuild that is not already well underway is going to take significantly longer than it otherwise would.
By the league's own measure, the average length of a transformation from bottom feeder to premiership contender is about seven years. That is, with access to the best players, young and uncontracted, it takes seven years to turn a caterpillar into a butterfly.
In 2010, when Gold Coast has nine of the first 15 picks in the national draft, including the first three, the team that finishes on the bottom will have selections four and 28 with which to begin the process of renewal.
A top-five selection more often than not produces a fine player these days but clubs throw picks in the late 20s around like Lotto tickets which some would argue have about as much chance of giving something back.
It will be no different in 2011, when western Sydney has the same concessions.
"Get in now because, for a couple of years or more, there will be little to get in for," was the summation of Melbourne's list manager, Tim Harrington.
"If you're trying to gather talent, you're not going to gather it very quickly if your second pick is 28."
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26238192-5013406,00.html
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The media have written us off completely from ever rebuilding thanks to these new teams hogging the 2010-2012 drafts; whereas the Club seem to think we'll be fine given our chuck of 23 and unders. I know one official at Richmond this year tell us at training we have the best crop of youngsters in the AFL :o and we'll see the proof of that in the near future.
It's going to be a real test for the Club to be smart and bold with drafting and trading which is something we don't have a history of over the 23 years of the draft system :-\.
The hard part is going to be extracting more early (top 20) picks without the help of priority picks. Being most likely a bottom side, will the new teams try to raid our best youngsters with the offer of big $$$ or will they ignore us completely believing our list is rubbish (similar to what happened with Tucky this year)?
On top of that will existing top 8 clubs copy Brisbane this year and trade their picks away for readymade existing players? Apparently Voss walked out of the GF this year saying the Lions had no chance of competing with those two sides and he wasn't prepared to wait until after Brown, Black and Power retired to rebuild.
It'll be a brave new world but when there's major upheaval there's also opportunity to jump the rest of the pack for a club that is smart and innovative and can exploit new rules to its advantage. Everyone remembers North as perennial losers exploiting the temporary 10 year rule and coming out the other side with two flags.
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It all boils down to drafting sensibly when you are rebuilding from scratch.
Picking kids that will fill needs and requirements and trading list cloggers away for picks or delisting them. That way you change the look of the side and the list and you change the core of that list.
Then as the team finds it's feet you continue to draft whilst trading away your list cloggers for picks or delisting them.
Then when your premiership window you us some picks on kids and trade some picks or players for players who will have a defined role at the club ala Stuart Dew, Josh Mahoney, Martin Pike, Nick Davis where once your premiership window closes these players won't be at the club and thus clogging the list and inhibiting the rebuild process when it starts again. The characteristic here people is shrewd. Do we have a shrewd operator at Punt Rd now?
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Agree Tucky. With the new teams coming in and most existing clubs having just one pick inside the top 30 it'll those clubs that are most shrewd, knowledgeable, innovative and spot on with their mid-range picks that will do best.
As for the question - do we have a shrewd operator? The whole club from top to bottom needs to be shrewd. The days of one person doing it all such as a GR have long gone. Do we have the best people and the required resources at the club relating to recruiting?
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Tank for pick 4 :rollin
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Tank for pick 4 :rollin
If we had tanked this year and had 3 picks inside 20 then it wouldnt be so bad. The reality is however is that we are stranded down the bottom with just 2 picks inside 20 and one of those is only 19. The reality is that we cannot make a mistake with either 3 or 19. We need 2 x 200 game players with these picks. Pick 3 should be a monty so 19 is the hard choice. Do we go for a keyFWD like Black or Griffiths or reach for Houghton or do we go for another midfielder like Bastinac or maybe say a Sheppard who may slip through. The extra pick could have gotten us the forward and the extra mid but thems the breaks.
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Tank for pick 4 :rollin
Given how young our list will be next year that may not be too difficult to achieve :-\ and not necessarily a bad thing mid-to-long-term.
If we had tanked this year and had 3 picks inside 20 then it wouldnt be so bad. The reality is however is that we are stranded down the bottom with just 2 picks inside 20 and one of those is only 19. The reality is that we cannot make a mistake with either 3 or 19. We need 2 x 200 game players with these picks. Pick 3 should be a monty so 19 is the hard choice. Do we go for a keyFWD like Black or Griffiths or reach for Houghton or do we go for another midfielder like Bastinac or maybe say a Sheppard who may slip through. The extra pick could have gotten us the forward and the extra mid but thems the breaks.
Yep too late now and we didn't see a "winning culture" come out of those few wins either.
I can still see us going for best available at 19. There's only 10 clubs with selections between our first two picks. Those with multiple picks (Melb, Port, Syd) will mostly likely pick up a spread of mids and KPPs. Whether we go for a key forward or another mid at 19 will depend on the needs of the clubs with just the single pick. Freo will most likely take Morabito and North Cunnington. The other 5 clubs are still unknowns.
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I'd be pretty certain Sydney would take Butcher at 6.
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Up till now Ive said we need a key forward but at 19 clubs have rarely been able to pick up decent key forwards, maybe Griffiths, Black, and Houghton are different although Griffiths at 19 and Houghton at 35 should still be there, the reality is though if a Brad Sheppard is there at 19 he is a must choose. We have so many holes to fill, so many players still to find who can kick the footy. If we ended up with 2 midfielders at 3 and 19 who can play 200 games and can kick the footy properly, I dont any of us would be upset. If we couldnt get say a Houghton at 35 then Id probably look at Zac Ledin again another midfielder but another who can kick the footy properly.
If we look back at the last few years most games we play we have between 8 and 14 goals conceded by us from turnovers. If we could include say a Martin a Sheppard a Ledin and a Farmer, and take out 3 or 4 of the many turnover merchants we have then maybe instead of conceding say 10 or 12 goals from turnovers, maybe we'd only concede 6 or 7. Still not great but it would be an improvement and it would be a sign that we are headed in the right direction. Wed probably win more games to.
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Gold Coast's recruiter Scott Clayton reckons they will only go for 8 uncontracted players next year instead of the full 16 they are allowed to chase.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/gold-coast-will-limit-raid-to-eight-players-20091201-k1lj.html
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Gold Coast's recruiter Scott Clayton reckons they will only go for 8 uncontracted players next year instead of the full 16 they are allowed to chase.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/gold-coast-will-limit-raid-to-eight-players-20091201-k1lj.html
In a major coup for the new club, the Gold Coast will not be forced to give up any of its nine first-round draft picks - selections 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 - when it signs an uncontracted player from any of the 16 clubs.
The compensation for losing an uncontracted player will be a draft pick - or picks - determined by the AFL (via a formula) and separate to those prized picks earmarked to the Gold Coast.
Would love to know what this formula is
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Would love to know what this formula is
It's top secret :shh ;).
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/4/b/f4bb8b88843683b61ea4040a5627f747.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/b/f/7bf0a2cbbe1fb51ef31505f43671687f.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/3/9/3/393718d6dd012428ef23d72114ba5ca3.png)
Nah seriously the only thing the AFL will say is the formula will judge a player's worth on their age, number of games played, top 10 finishes in B&Fs, and things like that. An existing club could just fudge their B&F count to get a higher pick from GC17.
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Track-and-yield deal to compensate for lost players to Gold Coast
* Mark Stevens
* From: Herald Sun
* April 28, 2010
THE recipe is as top secret as the Colonel's own.
We know there are herbs and spices - age, original draft position, salary rating, best-and-fairest results and All-Australian selections - but the weighting of each will remain a mystery.
That is why the formula to decide compensation for players lost to Gold Coast is open to howls of discontent from clubs that it is too subjective.
It is also open to rorting in the area of best-and-fairests.
What's to stop a club tinkering with its club champion award slightly to ensure a Gold Coast target finishes a spot or two higher?
It has happened before at clubs, when the incentive was not as great.
A top-five finish might be enough to boost a departing player's value from a second to a first-round pick.
But as the AFL reviews its formula, with an eye to compensating a club for the loss of a marquee star like Gary Ablett, it has a reputable alternative right under its nose.
For the first time, the AFL's official statistician Champion Data has attached a points value to every player in the league based on SuperCoach rankings, past and present form, experience and where they stack up against other rival players in similar positions on the ground.
It is the AFL's version of tennis's ATP points system and it could be the best way to decide compensation - without a whiff of subjectivity.
Every player in the competition now has a points ranking out of 30, with Champion Data providing an accurate list of where a player sits at each club.
It forms the basis of the Herald Sun Full Strength Indicator, which ranks the relative strength of each team each week, taking into account the value of absentees.
Using the system, every player ranked at a maximum 30 points could be classed as a "marquee" player worth two first-round picks.
Seven other players join Ablett in the elite 30-point class.
Ablett's teammate Joel Selwood, also a Gold Coast target, is worth 26 points - equal seventh at Geelong. Under the formula, he has paid the price for a slight dip in form this season.
Jared Brennan, the Lion linked to GC17, is worth 24 points - equal fourth at Brisbane.
Using guidelines to match the ratings, Geelong would receive a first-round pick in return for Selwood and the Lions would get a pick at the end of the first round for Brennan.
Bulldog Jarrod Harbrow, strongly linked to GC17, is worth 23 points (equal 10th at the club) and worthy of a second-round pick.
Campbell Brown is also worth 23 points (equal eighth at Hawthorn).
The ratings change week by week, fluctuating slightly on form.
By the end of the season, when compensation is dished out, they should be even more accurate.
Ken Wood, the salary cap cop, will oversee the workings of the AFL's secret recipe.
As if he hasn't got enough on his plate. Hand it over to the stats guys.
FORMULA EXPLAINED
Players have been coded into position, which are made up by general defender, key defender, general forward, key forward, midfielder and ruck.
Players can be coded in more than one position, however, a primary position is assigned to each player. For the purposes of scoring players in each category, the primary position is used for players who fill more than one position.
As a result, like players are compared with each other and not across the entire competition. This is to ensure parity across a squad, rather than the midfielders being over scored due to their prevalence for ranking higher than other positions.
Five factors are used to make up a player’s strength rating. These factors are:- Form, Class, Experience, Versatility and Auto Selection. The score for each of these categories is totaled to obtain the overall strength score for the player.
The factors and how they are derived is described below.
Form
The Champion Data rankings are used to compile this factor which is a measure of the player’s recent performance.
Players are scored on the previous five rounds of the competition e.g. for round 6, 2010, rounds 1-5 will be the relevant period of games. Allowances are made for returning players. If a player has missed no games in the last 5, they get 100% of their average score, one game in the last 5 they get 80%, two games = 60%, 3 games = 40% and 4 games = 20%.
A player is measured against the other players for that position and his raw score is ranked into one of 10 groups. The players in the best form get a 10, down to a 1 for the players with poor form. Players with no games in the last 5, get a 0.
These ratings are dynamic and could change from week to week as the distribution of scores changes amongst a position.
Class
This is a measure of the long term performance of a player. The rankings are used for the previous 22 games of a player, no matter how long it has taken to play those games.
Ranking is done by position type using the player’s average. A score is given between 1 and 10 with 10 being for players with the highest average ranking points over the 22 games and 1 the lowest. Players yet to debut are given 0.
Auto Select
This is derived from a player’s history over the past 3 seasons (including the current one) and whether they played AFL, lower grade (e.g. VFL, QAFL), were injured or were suspended.
To be auto select a player must not have been dropped in a season. If they did play a lower grade, it must have been on return from injury and they must not play any more than 5 games in the seconds. A player is given a score of 1 for each season they have been ‘auto select’ up to a maximum of 3 points.
Versatility
Players can fall into general and key defender, general and key forward, ruck and midfielder. The A player can score a maximum of 3 points here is they fill 3 positions, down to a 1 for players who fill one position. This factor is not as dynamic as form, class and experience but can be updated during the season as players fill different roles.
Experience
The career games for a player are used to compare with other players in that position and a score of 1 to 5 is given, with 5 being the most experienced players and 1 the least experienced. A player who is yet to debut receives a 0 for experience
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/track-and-yield-deal-to-compensate-for-lost-players-to-gold-coast/story-e6frf9jf-1225859032447
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OMG :gobdrop ... we are truly screwed .. Cats get pick one??? :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
Congrats to the frekin AFL on destroying the Richmond Tigers and more clubs ......... im gonna go cry now :-\
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OMG :gobdrop ... we are truly screwed .. Cats get pick one??? :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
Congrats to the frekin AFL on destroying the Richmond Tigers and more clubs ......... im gonna go cry now :-\
Settle down, it doesn't say anywhere that Geelong would receive Pick 1, just a 1st round pick
The method mentioned previously is that a team will nominate before the start of the season that they are going to use the pick and they get another pick at the same place as their original pick in the draft, which is determined by their place on the ladder.
This means if Geelong is smart, they will hold on to the selection until they believe they are going to drop down the ladder
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OMG :gobdrop ... we are truly screwed .. Cats get pick one??? :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
Congrats to the frekin AFL on destroying the Richmond Tigers and more clubs ......... im gonna go cry now :-\
Settle down, it doesn't say anywhere that Geelong would receive Pick 1, just a 1st round pick
The method mentioned previously is that a team will nominate before the start of the season that they are going to use the pick and they get another pick at the same place as their original pick in the draft, which is determined by their place on the ladder.
This means if Geelong is smart, they will hold on to the selection until they believe they are going to drop down the ladder
mmm and lets say if all this happens like top clubs getting better picks than us ... what would we do? lol what would the Crows do? like half there team in in there 30's
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So much for any Tigers being rated highly going on that formula :P
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The Greek Real Estate Agent screws us again.
I will be a happy man when he's gone.
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they love having the tigers at the bottom, what other club could pull the crowds and members we do after such a sustained period of horribleness??
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So where are the posters on this forum that don't agree with the RFC going to the AFL and looking for further compensation??? No matter what happened IN THE PAST or how bad we recruited IN THE PAST this is about the future and we will not be be propery compensated for this year. Please don't focus on the past, this is about the future and this years draft and we are not getting the picks we would have otherwise been entitled to.
The RFC must approach the AFL for further compensation other than pick 4. Let me ask you this; if the Pies or the Blues were in the same position as us do you think their hierarchy would approach or even demand extra compensation....... HELL YES they would. Would they recieve it...... HELL YES they would.
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So where are the posters on this forum that don't agree with the RFC going to the AFL and looking for further compensation??? No matter what happened IN THE PAST or how bad we recruited IN THE PAST this is about the future and we will not be be propery compensated for this year. Please don't focus on the past, this is about the future and this years draft and we are not getting the picks we would have otherwise been entitled to.
The RFC must approach the AFL for further compensation other than pick 4. Let me ask you this; if the Pies or the Blues were in the same position as us do you think their hierarchy would approach or even demand extra compensation....... HELL YES they would. Would they recieve it...... HELL YES they would.
Here I am WAT. :)
We will receive all the compensation we are going to get - and that will be no more than the current rules say we are entitled to. GC17 are going to trade picks for a number of existing players and these picks will be available to teams with players worth taking, so for those who make the right calls in this draft there will still be any number of good players available - draftees and experienced. And the loss of many of these experienced players will potentially weaken those teams so what comes around goes around. Yep, Carlton and Collingwood would go whinging to the AFL but I have very strong doubts that Demetriou will change his stance on this one, its just not his style, and to be honest I don't think the path to success is in demanding help to fix our problems. We must accept total responsibility - we created it, we fix it - only we can control our destiny. You said not to focus on the past and that is exactly right - don't focus on what has happened in the past with teams getting extra compensation, focus on getting the maximum value for every pick we end up with this year - that's where our success and improvement lies. Too much time and energy will be wasted whinging to the AFL. Spend that time doing our due diligence in this year's trade and drafts.
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So where are the posters on this forum that don't agree with the RFC going to the AFL and looking for further compensation??? No matter what happened IN THE PAST or how bad we recruited IN THE PAST this is about the future and we will not be be propery compensated for this year. Please don't focus on the past, this is about the future and this years draft and we are not getting the picks we would have otherwise been entitled to.
The RFC must approach the AFL for further compensation other than pick 4. Let me ask you this; if the Pies or the Blues were in the same position as us do you think their hierarchy would approach or even demand extra compensation....... HELL YES they would. Would they recieve it...... HELL YES they would.
Here I am WAT. :)
We will receive all the compensation we are going to get - and that will be no more than the current rules say we are entitled to. GC17 are going to trade picks for a number of existing players and these picks will be available to teams with players worth taking, so for those who make the right calls in this draft there will still be any number of good players available - draftees and experienced. And the loss of many of these experienced players will potentially weaken those teams so what comes around goes around. Yep, Carlton and Collingwood would go whinging to the AFL but I have very strong doubts that Demetriou will change his stance on this one, its just not his style, and to be honest I don't think the path to success is in demanding help to fix our problems. We must accept total responsibility - we created it, we fix it - only we can control our destiny. You said not to focus on the past and that is exactly right - don't focus on what has happened in the past with teams getting extra compensation, focus on getting the maximum value for every pick we end up with this year - that's where our success and improvement lies. Too much time and energy will be wasted whinging to the AFL. Spend that time doing our due diligence in this year's trade and drafts.
Fair enough smokey with most of your comments... but.. ;) I am not sure the draft willl run that deep this year with most of the picks going to the GC17 that there will be much left for us to show due diligence. Really, many on this forum whinged and are still whinging about us picking up players like Hicks, Whestoff, skinny players, ect... and I am afraid thats all that is going to be left, so get ready for more whinging. The future is this years draft and this year we need to try and change or at least be remunirated for future picks as a result of the new teams coming in. That is not looking in the past this is our future. Regardless of whether the AFL will or will not award us compensation we must try.
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Draft day will be sad to witness watching GC shaking hands with our players.
:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
Carltank and Meltank.
We play fair and GET NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
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Fair enough smokey with most of your comments... but.. ;) I am not sure the draft willl run that deep this year with most of the picks going to the GC17 that there will be much left for us to show due diligence. Really, many on this forum whinged and are still whinging about us picking up players like Hicks, Whestoff, skinny players, ect... and I am afraid thats all that is going to be left, so get ready for more whinging. The future is this years draft and this year we need to try and change or at least be remunirated for future picks as a result of the new teams coming in. That is not looking in the past this is our future. Regardless of whether the AFL will or will not award us compensation we must try.
Good debate WAT. I really don't subscribe to the "draft runs deep" theory at any point. I think that there are just as many good players available at any point in every draft - the skill is in the research you do and the luck of the draw on draft day itself. Have a look at how many great players get picked up much further down than the top half dozen every single year. To be honest, I reckon that once you go past the first 3 or 4 then you have just as much chance of picking up a good player at any pick. If you look at Geelong's current side then many of them were late draft picks - they were picked after others that have since moved on. What Geelong got right was doing the research and playing the numbers - law of averages says if you do your homework and back your judgment then X players out of Y picks will make it. It's an unforgiving science in trying to unearth gems with almost every pick you get and that's why I think we are only just starting to get a decent return for our efforts - it is an area we were very badly under resourced and inept in for many years. We need to keep funding and working on this critical area if we are really serious about catching and mixing it with the big boys. Sitting on our hands and begging for handouts will not fix what's wrong.
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Fair enough smokey with most of your comments... but.. ;) I am not sure the draft willl run that deep this year with most of the picks going to the GC17 that there will be much left for us to show due diligence. Really, many on this forum whinged and are still whinging about us picking up players like Hicks, Whestoff, skinny players, ect... and I am afraid thats all that is going to be left, so get ready for more whinging. The future is this years draft and this year we need to try and change or at least be remunirated for future picks as a result of the new teams coming in. That is not looking in the past this is our future. Regardless of whether the AFL will or will not award us compensation we must try.
Good debate WAT. I really don't subscribe to the "draft runs deep" theory at any point. I think that there are just as many good players available at any point in every draft - the skill is in the research you do and the luck of the draw on draft day itself. Have a look at how many great players get picked up much further down than the top half dozen every single year. To be honest, I reckon that once you go past the first 3 or 4 then you have just as much chance of picking up a good player at any pick. If you look at Geelong's current side then many of them were late draft picks - they were picked after others that have since moved on. What Geelong got right was doing the research and playing the numbers - law of averages says if you do your homework and back your judgment then X players out of Y picks will make it. It's an unforgiving science in trying to unearth gems with almost every pick you get and that's why I think we are only just starting to get a decent return for our efforts - it is an area we were very badly under resourced and inept in for many years. We need to keep funding and working on this critical area if we are really serious about catching and mixing it with the big boys. Sitting on our hands and begging for handouts will not fix what's wrong.
Yeah it is a good debate, makes a change..... ;D, I 100% agree with your entire post except... ;) for your last sentence. If we look back over the drafts then yes some of the best players that have played the game were picked up late in the draft. Kemp, Matera just about the whole 92 & 94 Eagles premiership sides. Actually the Eagles were the only side to have won a GF with a number one drfat pick in their side with Drew Banfield until the Hawks did it with Hodge. So that does go to show that the number one draft picks are a bit overated, sometimes.
The other thing is though, do we have the recruiters or even recruiting staff to find these players deep in the draft, history would say no, but we have added additional recruiting personnel this year so that may help. Lets just hope they have been out there since last year looking for the talent.
As for your last sentence, I don't believe we would be seen as begging, I think many would see it as justifiable compensation, but that is the one point we will have to agree to dissagree on.. :thumbsup
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If we leave this year with 2 young stars and a ruckman from another club thats half decent then we would have done well. Specifically we need another forward- preferably over the 190 and a midfielder with abit of class!
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If we leave this year with 2 young stars and a ruckman from another club thats half decent then we would have done well. Specifically we need another forward- preferably over the 190 and a midfielder with abit of class!
A chance Darling or Sam Day could be available at pick 4 as far as KPPs.
As far as decent ruckman from another club the going rate seems to be second round pick :-\. If we received a PP? we would have two 2nd rounders - picks 27 and 28. Do we rate all of the Blues' ruckmen as decent and look for one who may be looking for more gametime?
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Fair enough smokey with most of your comments... but.. ;) I am not sure the draft willl run that deep this year with most of the picks going to the GC17 that there will be much left for us to show due diligence. Really, many on this forum whinged and are still whinging about us picking up players like Hicks, Whestoff, skinny players, ect... and I am afraid thats all that is going to be left, so get ready for more whinging. The future is this years draft and this year we need to try and change or at least be remunirated for future picks as a result of the new teams coming in. That is not looking in the past this is our future. Regardless of whether the AFL will or will not award us compensation we must try.
Good debate WAT. I really don't subscribe to the "draft runs deep" theory at any point. I think that there are just as many good players available at any point in every draft - the skill is in the research you do and the luck of the draw on draft day itself. Have a look at how many great players get picked up much further down than the top half dozen every single year. To be honest, I reckon that once you go past the first 3 or 4 then you have just as much chance of picking up a good player at any pick. If you look at Geelong's current side then many of them were late draft picks - they were picked after others that have since moved on. What Geelong got right was doing the research and playing the numbers - law of averages says if you do your homework and back your judgment then X players out of Y picks will make it. It's an unforgiving science in trying to unearth gems with almost every pick you get and that's why I think we are only just starting to get a decent return for our efforts - it is an area we were very badly under resourced and inept in for many years. We need to keep funding and working on this critical area if we are really serious about catching and mixing it with the big boys. Sitting on our hands and begging for handouts will not fix what's wrong.
Yeah it is a good debate, makes a change..... ;D, I 100% agree with your entire post except... ;) for your last sentence. If we look back over the drafts then yes some of the best players that have played the game were picked up late in the draft. Kemp, Matera just about the whole 92 & 94 Eagles premiership sides. Actually the Eagles were the only side to have won a GF with a number one drfat pick in their side with Drew Banfield until the Hawks did it with Hodge. So that does go to show that the number one draft picks are a bit overated, sometimes.
The other thing is though, do we have the recruiters or even recruiting staff to find these players deep in the draft, history would say no, but we have added additional recruiting personnel this year so that may help. Lets just hope they have been out there since last year looking for the talent.
As for your last sentence, I don't believe we would be seen as begging, I think many would see it as justifiable compensation, but that is the one point we will have to agree to dissagree on.. :thumbsup
Reiwoldt, Hodge, Goddard, Murphy etc.
not overrated the no.1 picks
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Well after todays effort I really think the RFC needs to approach the AFL and apply for adequate compensation from this years draft. We can't go on like this and the GC17 will be ahead of us on the ladder in their first year. Surley the gap between us and glory is evident after today and if the AFL want that sort of demonstration to promote our game then they are mad.
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i have no doubt GC will most likely finished higher then us next year.
they have a heap of great talented youngsters and will have uncontracted afl players to pick from this year. we do need help but i cant see it happening just crossing my fingers that most of our picks turn into great 100 plus game players.
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i have no doubt GC will most likely finished higher then us next year.
they have a heap of great talented youngsters and will have uncontracted afl players to pick from this year. we do need help but i cant see it happening just crossing my fingers that most of our picks turn into great 100 plus game players.
Yeah I don't think the AFL will change anything but I still think the RFC should approach them.
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i have no doubt GC will most likely finished higher then us next year.
they have a heap of great talented youngsters and will have uncontracted afl players to pick from this year. we do need help but i cant see it happening just crossing my fingers that most of our picks turn into great 100 plus game players.
Yeah I don't think the AFL will change anything but I still think the RFC should approach them.
AFL will argue our ills are of a self inflicted nature and we were warned of this compromised draft for at least 3 years or since North decided to stay in Melb and not go to QLD.
We could have won the spoon with less than 4 wins and have 2 of Trengove Martin and Scully to begin with.
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AFL will argue our ills are of a self inflicted nature and we were warned of this compromised draft for at least 3 years or since North decided to stay in Melb and not go to QLD.
We could have won the spoon with less than 4 wins and have 2 of Trengove Martin and Scully to begin with.
have to thank mcmahon there the one time he wins a game it hurts us in the long term.
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AFL will argue our ills are of a self inflicted nature and we were warned of this compromised draft for at least 3 years or since North decided to stay in Melb and not go to QLD.
We could have won the spoon with less than 4 wins and have 2 of Trengove Martin and Scully to begin with.
No if we won the spoon last year we would have got a priority at around 18
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This is where the AFL's help is going in the upcoming years not surprisingly ...
THE AFL has confirmed it will pour $220 million into the Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney expansion markets over the next six years.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-puts-money-where-mouth-is/story-e6frf9jf-1225862754182
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Gold Coast may deal on draft picks
Jon Ralph
Herald Sun
May 13, 2010
GOLD Coast has conceded for the first time it may have to trade some of its prized draft picks if it cannot lure enough uncontracted stars north.
Chief recruiter Scott Clayton is confident of netting up to eight rival players, but clubs continue to sign up players on Gold Coast's hit list.
Gold Coast would be unlikely to give away top-10 selections, but has nine of the first 15 draft picks, then the first pick in every subsequent round.
Clubs who lose uncontracted players will receive draft picks as compensation, but the exact formula remains undecided.
The bonus for clubs who choose to trade players for picks is they can use those draft picks immediately rather than wait two seasons.
The AFL recently changed the rules for Gold Coast compensation picks, declaring clubs could not use them in this draft or the 2011 national draft.
It will lead to the situation where clubs desperate to immediately use high compensation picks must instead sit on their hands in frustration.
Full article at:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/gold-coast-may-deal-on-draft-picks/story-e6frf9ix-1225865740768
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McGuane, Moore, Thursfield et al + another 10 or so should be offered up to see if we can get any extra picks
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Don't think you would get much in way of draft picks for me ramps ;D
I wouldn't trade any of those for picks, though, as you wont get a high pick in return for them, which would mean you have a few years to wait and still have no guarantee your pick is an improvement on what you gave away.
I would though trade two of them if it gave you a legitimate KPP or ruckman and a pick though.
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A bit about us and Dustin Martin ........
Bear bones
* Gerard Healy
* From: Herald Sun
* May 15, 2010
With stars rejecting overtures at a rapid rate, Gold Coast may end up fielding a team of no-names that makes the 'Carrara Koalas' of the 1980s appear a powerhouse.
IF THE alarm bells aren't ringing in Andrew Demetriou's office, they should be.
With just nine months until Gold Coast's AFL debut, the positive landscape of the past 12 months is changing rapidly.
The list of who isn't playing for the Coast gets longer by the day, and is alarmingly significant for both expansion teams - in fact, for all clubs.
The likes of Joel Selwood, Lance Franklin and Michael Hurley have all been rubbed off Gold Coast list manager Scott Clayton's extensive wish list. If Gary Ablett's name gets a line through it as well, we are entitled to begin asking questions.
Exactly who is going to play for the Lifesavers? And will the team be in need of resuscitation from day one?
The inability to get the Ablett deal done has almost been a warning light to other players. If he doesn't sign, the chances of gaining a group of genuine match-winners, around which to build, looks certain to fail.
Even if Jarrod Harbrow or Campbell Brown were to take up the offer, there still wouldn't be close to enough talent heading north.
It seems unlikely there is a group of hidden, established guns set to be revealed which can short-circuit the development phase and make Gold Coast worth watching on TV.
Clayton conceded the problem this week, saying the club might have to trade early draft picks for experienced players. It is a strategy that is counter-productive to the team's
ultimate goal and hard evidence of the potential problem. Trading away the future is not Clayton's style, and suggests a looming crisis.
THE BAD NEWS - BEARS ARE BACK
This is not just about Gold Coast.
The scenario has the capacity to become a fatal recruiting storm as the knock-on effect to the Greater Western Sydney team is disturbingly obvious.
From a recruiting sense, selling the Gold Coast to players in comparison to GWS is like chalk and cheese. If Clayton can't land any decent fish, without trading away the future, what hope has Kevin Sheedy got?
Given the draft and salary-cap concessions, expectations were high the Gold Coast team would prosper quickly, but without a core of talented senior players that's unlikely.
The one thing you need to sell in new markets is a winning team.
Despite its best intentions, the AFL's blueprint for building a competitive outfit in both expansion zones looks as though it might produce another Brisbane Bears.
Of course, the Bears were slapped together in 1987 using the cast-offs of the 12 VFL teams, which each had to send three listed players to Carrara.
With a few exceptions such as Mark Williams and Brad Hardie, the Bears' original outfit was a host of untried WAFL and SANFL players, coupled with unwanted VFL players.
The signing of Williams was the most significant. He was an influential player, a Collingwood skipper who had significant pulling power on other recruiting targets.
Williams was exactly what Gold Coast sees in Ablett: a player of great value on the field, but vastly more important for the lead he would give to others.
If a marquee player doesn't come soon, the list of uncontracted players will disconcertingly thin.
Already Sheedy is flagging that another year or two of concessions at the draft will be required and it's hard to dispute his assessment.
But it would leave some skinny drafts for other bottom teams.
Still, that's a far better option than the potential destruction of the competition's payment structure, which is already on the line as an unseen byproduct of expansion.
The advances to established players are obviously so unsuccessful that the focus of GWS has evidently shifted to offering big money for talent, regardless of age.
For example, there are strong suggestions of offers of about $800,000, to youngsters such as Richmond's Dustin Martin. That would put him in the AFL's top 20 paid players and has moved the Tigers to make a strong counter offer.
It was expected the inflation would be felt at the top end not the bottom of the ladder.
MONOPOLY MONEY
If the only way the new clubs can build a competitive team is to offer talented teens monopoly money figures, then the model for their establishment is completely flawed and has to be addressed - now.
How does Richmond compete with such an offer? And how would the club be adequately compensated?
I have no trouble paying superstars from other codes over-the-top money to try to play, promote, and, more importantly, break down the cultural barriers that could unlock a vast array of supporters and players from the northern states.
But the Martin offer threatens to distort Richmond's salary distribution beyond commercial sense.
If recruiting youngsters at any cost replaces recruiting senior players who look hard to shift, we're going down the wrong path.
The lack of separation of power between club and governing body, so evident in the Melbourne Storm fiasco, could produce another damaging outcome, this time to our own game.
Surely Demetriou can't responsibly establish a team that requires such a distortion of accepted salary payments to third-year players when it's the AFL's money doing the distorting.
The struggling teams will suffer, and the players will lose perspective of their worth.
TIME FOR A RETHINK
We all want the Lifesavers to prosper and for Sheedy's GWS to take root quickly - and every club and most supporters seem to accept they will pay some price as the game expands.
Sheedy did just that when he lost Gavin Wanganeen for no compensation to the first Port Adelaide team. But supporters won't accept losing hope for the future if it is AFL money that takes them away.
Perhaps the AFL needs to restrict the movement of U21 players unless by mutual consent. Maybe each club should be forced to delist one or two mid-range players to a pool from which the two new clubs can pick, so they don't have to trade away their future.
The plan of building a competitive team around a core of talented senior players and top-line youngster looks like coming up well short.
Instead there is the potential to produce unforeseen outcomes that strike at the heart of the battling and established clubs.
More modelling work urgently needs to be done to ensure that in trying to expand we don't end up contracting. Yes, the alarm bells are ringing. But is anyone listening?
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/bear-bones/story-e6frf9jf-1225867042327
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Maybe it just shows that GC17 & GWS can't happily just poach players for nothing and will need to trade away some of their plethora of draft picks for quality players. That's half the reason they were given these picks to begin with, so that they could trade them for mature players.
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Maybe it just shows that GC17 & GWS can't happily just poach players for nothing and will need to trade away some of their plethora of draft picks for quality players. That's half the reason they were given these picks to begin with, so that they could trade them for mature players.
As a Richmond supporter we should be more concerned by what its going to cost us to keep Dustin Martin. 800k for a kid is lunacy, if the offer is correct I see us paying 500-600k to keep him and that type of money is crazy for a kid in his first year of footy.
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Teams like GWS can't afford to pay $800k per year over the long term. It may be an initial deal to get him to the club, but you can't offer a kid 10% of the salary cap long term.
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Maybe it just shows that GC17 & GWS can't happily just poach players for nothing and will need to trade away some of their plethora of draft picks for quality players. That's half the reason they were given these picks to begin with, so that they could trade them for mature players.
As a Richmond supporter we should be more concerned by what its going to cost us to keep Dustin Martin. 800k for a kid is lunacy, if the offer is correct I see us paying 500-600k to keep him and that type of money is crazy for a kid in his first year of footy.
Completly agree Ramps.
The AFL need to step in. Ive got no problem with NRL players or the elite players earning 1-1.5 mil a year as marquee players that earn there money in terms of short term marketing as well as on field.
800k for a teenager is diabolical. Not cause its our star kid it would be the same if they chased a Naitinui or Kruezar. Everyone loses in the competition. Player worth changes as does salary cap management and future wages. It just becomes chaos.
GWS can throw these figures around and force other clubs to max out there salary caps to match offers. This will leave any club unable to attract players on there own with the lack of remaining salary payments. It will also make it impossible for clubs to upgrade contracts when renewal comes around. Players who weren't approached by GWS will have below average contracts and will want more money to compensate their "new" worth in the improved market of player value that has been ballooned by the new franchises.
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This will kill everyone
Scott Gullan
Herald Sun
June 09, 2010
CHRIS Pelchen uses the analogy of waves through the ocean when explaining the impact the AFL's two new franchises on football.
Talk to AFL recruiters and at some stage they will all use the same word - scary - to describe the talent that will assemble on Gold Coast's list next year.
With the raising of the draft age to 18 last year, Gold Coast was given exclusive access to the 12 best 17-year-old's in the country.
On top of that, in November's national draft they will have nine picks, including the first three, in the top 15.
They also have an extra $1 million in their salary cap to sign 16 uncontracted players and appear to be firming in the chase for Brownlow medallist Gary Ablett, given that he's put off contract talks with Geelong until the end of the season.
Others strongly linked to the new franchise include Port Adelaide's Nathan Krakouer, Western Bulldogs defender Jarrod Harbrow and Hawthorn hard man Campbell Brown.
Throw in the fact that this year's draft is considered one of the strongest in years, particularly the top 20, and it's a Gold Coast bonanza.
And a debacle for struggling Victorian teams.
Richmond has played in only one finals series in 15 years, yet Guy McKenna's team is tipped to be involved in September in its second year.
The re-building at Punt Rd, which started this year under new coach Damien Hardwick, will be badly compromised over the next two years because the Tigers simply won't get their hands on the talent their finishing position once would have afforded them.
Full article at:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/this-will-kill-everyone/story-e6frf9jf-1225877215966
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Draft rules will hand new clubs 10 flags
Scott Gullan
Herald Sun
June 09, 2010
GOLD Coast will be a superpower within four years, capable of winning multiple premierships - with or without Gary Ablett.
Rival clubs are bracing themselves as the reality of the extraordinary talent that the AFL's two new franchises, GC17 and the Greater Western Sydney, will have at their disposal starts to emerge.
With the national under-18 championships going on around the country, the draft concessions handed to the start-up teams have come under fire from recruiters who can see what looms large in the near future.
Are the draft concessions fair? Have your say in the comments below.
"I've been trying to tell people for a year that they have been given too much and it's going to kill everyone," Adelaide's national recruiting manager Matt Rendell said yesterday.
"Gold Coast will win its first flag around 2014-2015, and then between them and West Sydney they will win the next 10."
The concessions given to the Gold Coast will ensure it debuts in the AFL next year with a list that includes a staggering 17 players regarded as first-round picks in any draft of recent times.
"It is going to be a superstar team," Rendell said.
"No one is going to be able to compete. My only hope is that it doesn't send clubs to the wall because of it.
"I mean look at Melbourne, they think they are going to win one in three or four years time, but I'm telling you the Gold Coast will race straight past them, they'll give them wind burn.
"It's as scary as hell."
Richmond's general manager of football Craig Cameron, whose club is set to lose the most, agrees.
"It's frightening," he said of the pending arrival of Gold Coast.
"It certainly looks ugly for the rest of us."
Hawthorn's general manager of player personnel and strategy, Chris Pelchen, described the situation as "alarming".
"I believe they (Gold Coast) can contest for a finals position from their second year onwards, simply because of the depth of junior talent they will have," he said.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/draft-rules-will-hand-new-clubs-10-flags-on-a-plate/story-e6frf9jf-1225877193133
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An almost word for word reprint of the articles flying around about 20 odd years ago when
Sheedy Gore Sheedy went on a crusade proclaiming the end of football as we knew it because of the concessions given to West Coast. Why do so many people keep getting sucked in to the newest and worst ever 'end of the earth' theories? Seen dozens in my time and none of them even came close to the alarmist predictions of those with vested interests but they did usually come very close to that predicted by those who sat back and assessed the situation reasonably using the one proven failsafe method of learning - the lessons of history. Just like it was for the West Coast, just like it will be for the Gold Coast. But hey, I bet it sold some papers and some numbnuts are considering a switch to soccer as we speak.
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You're right smokey. How about the fears that Victorian teams would never win another flag after Brisbane, Port, Sydney and West Coast won theirs. Victorian sides are dominating again, with only Freo a legitimate challenger.
What Gold Coast would have gotten in other years with their first 9 picks
2001 - (1) Hodge, (2) Ball, (3) Judd, (5) X. Clarke, (7) Hale, (9) Molan, (11) Cole, (13) Dal Santo, (15) Brooks
2002 - Goddard, Wells, Brennan, J. McVeigh, Mackie, McIntosh, Winderlich, Schammer, Smith
2003 - Cooney, Walker, Sylvia, McLean, Tenace, Trotter, Waters, Stanton, Chaplin
2004 - Deledio, Roughead, Griffen, Franklin, Lewis, Russell, Thomson, Bate, Dunn
2005 - Murphy, Thomas, Ellis, Pendlebury, Ryder, Clark, Higgins, Hurn, Varcoe
2006 - Gibbs, Gumbleton, Hansen, Boak, Selwood, Armitage, Everitt, Riewoldt, O'Keefe
2007 - Kreuzer, Cotchin, Masten, Grant, Palmer, McEvoy, Veszpremi, Ebert, Tarrant
2008 - Watts, Naitanui, Hill, Hurley, Rich, Ziebell, Sidebottom, Lynch, Brown
2009 - Scully, Trengove, Martin, Cunnington, Sheppard, Moore, Gysberts, Talia, Howard
They'll get some guns no doubt, but like every year above, they'll have some misses.
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RFC said they won't seek help from the AFL... Should we ? cause it serouisly sounds like were sqrewed for another 10 years :/
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Relax chicken little, we dont need to beg for handouts (or cheat). It's the middle of the road sides that are on the slide that will really struggle
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Why do so many people keep getting sucked in to the newest and worst ever 'end of the earth' theories?
I don't know, maybe you can tell us Smokey, you're a believer in the current mining industry scare campaign! ::)
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Why do so many people keep getting sucked in to the newest and worst ever 'end of the earth' theories?
I don't know, maybe you can tell us Smokey, you're a believer in the current mining industry scare campaign! ::)
Not a believer in the scare campaign DC - believer in the impact of a flawed economic decision on the health of our country's economy. Believed it as soon as I heard it, well before the scare campaign kicked in - if you recall the earlier debate I was against the government spending all of our surplus (plus going into significant debt) in areas with no benefit to our economy. The proposed mining tax is just the government's reaction to their sudden realization (deeerrrr) that they have blown our money and they know that there is a very strong chance it could get worse before it gets better - but we have nothing left to use, nothing left to fall back on. And my beliefs are based on my experiences in life - history I call it - nothing to do with what any mining (or government or union for that matter) funded campaign tells me. I prefer to make my own decisions, even if I know they won't all be correct, they are all mine.
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Maybe it just shows that GC17 & GWS can't happily just poach players for nothing and will need to trade away some of their plethora of draft picks for quality players. That's half the reason they were given these picks to begin with, so that they could trade them for mature players.
As a Richmond supporter we should be more concerned by what its going to cost us to keep Dustin Martin. 800k for a kid is lunacy, if the offer is correct I see us paying 500-600k to keep him and that type of money is crazy for a kid in his first year of footy.
Cause we have so many 26-28-30 year old superstars to be spending 800k on?
???