Dustin Martin [merged]

[Tigermonk]

It dont matter who the Demons take if Richmond dont do anything dumb like always we will get a top player if they are going for midfielders 1st up

There you go again TM having so much faith in the NEW regime.......

Thats right WAT l have no faith because it dont matter who they draft.
You got to have the right development coaches to take the recruits to the next level & then keep them there.
You understand why Richmond have had no success in the last 28 years or you think its because they draft the wrong players

l will have faith when l see them players producing AFL quality football & doing it consistantly
l dont care if they win lose or draw as long as they produce quality & then the rest will fall into place 

[Francois Jackson]

It dont matter who the Demons take if Richmond dont do anything dumb like always we will get a top player if they are going for midfielders 1st up

There you go again TM having so much faith in the NEW regime.......

Thats right WAT l have no faith because it dont matter who they draft.
You got to have the right development coaches to take the recruits to the next level & then keep them there.
You understand why Richmond have had no success in the last 28 years or you think its because they draft the wrong players

l will have faith when l see them players producing AFL quality football & doing it consistantly
l dont care if they win lose or draw as long as they produce quality & then the rest will fall into place 

you only have to look at how skinny our players are year after year after year to realize we have as much idea as a football club about developing as we do drafting talent.

Shane Edwards, yep im sure Max Rooke would be real scared of facing up to him out on the field. Polo, Thursfield ditto...

Our players go backwards in skill and development and no one can tell me  its because we "draft" the wrong players all the time.

Unless hardwick spends more money on development coaches then he too will struggly like many before him.

Sending players back on the ground injured is not a fault of drafting the wrong players its the fault of the RFC people who have NFI.

[Stripes]

It dont matter who the Demons take if Richmond dont do anything dumb like always we will get a top player if they are going for midfielders 1st up

There you go again TM having so much faith in the NEW regime.......

Thats right WAT l have no faith because it dont matter who they draft.
You got to have the right development coaches to take the recruits to the next level & then keep them there.
You understand why Richmond have had no success in the last 28 years or you think its because they draft the wrong players

l will have faith when l see them players producing AFL quality football & doing it consistantly
l dont care if they win lose or draw as long as they produce quality & then the rest will fall into place 

you only have to look at how skinny our players are year after year after year to realize we have as much idea as a football club about developing as we do drafting talent.

Shane Edwards, yep im sure Max Rooke would be real scared of facing up to him out on the field. Polo, Thursfield ditto...

Our players go backwards in skill and development and no one can tell me  its because we "draft" the wrong players all the time.

Unless hardwick spends more money on development coaches then he too will struggly like many before him.

Sending players back on the ground injured is not a fault of drafting the wrong players its the fault of the RFC people who have NFI.

All the coaches, from the head coach down, are training with the group - working one-on-one. You can't get better for development than that. Couple this with some specific coaches whoa re working with pairs or individual players such as the Irish Lads and I say we are more hands on and needs based than we have ever been.

Hardwick appears to be a uncompromising teacher to me which is exactly what we need.

Stripes

[Con65]

Doesnt happen often but i agree with TM's comment about development.

In fact when you think of it, in a comp where half the teams play finals, we have been spectacularly successful in failure. 2 finals in 28 years would be hard to plan to achieve let alone achieve....

Our players in the past have not developed like players have at other clubs...admitedly we had no money for develpment coaches in Wallace first 2 seasons...and this is being felt now...Players drafted pre 2007 had no one to work with on their development....

Hopefully our current development program and coaches will bring kids on that would otherwise have been borderline players into fully fledged afl players...it is pleasing to hear that they have the balls out in October/November working on their skills...

Cheers to a new dawn...to the belief as DH would say.

[Smokey]

Doesnt happen often but i agree with TM's comment about development.

In fact when you think of it, in a comp where half the teams play finals, we have been spectacularly successful in failure. 2 finals in 28 years would be hard to plan to achieve let alone achieve....

Our players in the past have not developed like players have at other clubs...admitedly we had no money for develpment coaches in Wallace first 2 seasons...and this is being felt now...Players drafted pre 2007 had no one to work with on their development....

Hopefully our current development program and coaches will bring kids on that would otherwise have been borderline players into fully fledged afl players...it is pleasing to hear that they have the balls out in October/November working on their skills...

Cheers to a new dawn...to the belief as DH would say.

Yep.  Regardless of the reasons, we have been much much worse at developing kids than we have been at drafting them.

[mightytiges]

No doubt poor development has played its part but our recruiting philosophy has been wrong for a very long time and we were continually slipping further behind other clubs. Firstly they understood how the draft system works and how to maximise the benefit from it while we kept making the same dumb short term mistakes. Secondly they were pouring their resources into the draft and recruiting adding more and more sophisticated methods while we were still going on one recruiter's hunch after watching a couple of videos  . Thirdly we were drafting too many smalls that were light on. Someone like Shane Edwards no matter how much gym work he does, no matter how many protein drinks he consumes, and no matter how good our development of players could be, he will never end up with a Max Rooke body-type who can bash and crash their way through. Fourthly we were not drafting enough kids per year and turning over our ordinary list quickly. If you keep hold of the same group of players year after year then it's no surprise we never improve as a side.

[Infamy]

Someone like Shane Edwards no matter how much gym work he does, no matter how much protein drinks he consumes, and no matter how good our development of players could be, he will never end up with a Max Rooke body-type who can bash and crash their way through.

I understand your point, however not every player needs to be a bash and crash type like Max Rooke. Especially given the fact that if Max played for Richmond he'd be a whipping boy for averaging 11 disposals and 1 goal a game. Even Kayne Pettifer couldn't hold his spot in the side for 2 years despite pulling numbers like that. People have been calling for Tom Hislop's head all season for pulling numbers like that and he's only 20 years old.

Shane Edwards is 180cm & 76kg at the start of 2009 so add on some weight from this preseason. Andrew McLeod is 181cm and 81kg. I guarantee you that I'd take Andrew McLeod over Max Rooke every single time. No need to stereotype based on body type alone. It takes all types, as long as they have talent and application, that's all that matters.

[mightytiges]

Someone like Shane Edwards no matter how much gym work he does, no matter how much protein drinks he consumes, and no matter how good our development of players could be, he will never end up with a Max Rooke body-type who can bash and crash their way through.

I understand your point, however not every player needs to be a bash and crash type like Max Rooke. Especially given the fact that if Max played for Richmond he'd be a whipping boy for averaging 11 disposals and 1 goal a game. Even Kayne Pettifer couldn't hold his spot in the side for 2 years despite pulling numbers like that. People have been calling for Tom Hislop's head all season for pulling numbers like that and he's only 20 years old.

Shane Edwards is 180cm & 76kg at the start of 2009 so add on some weight from this preseason. Andrew McLeod is 181cm and 81kg. I guarantee you that I'd take Andrew McLeod over Max Rooke every single time. No need to stereotype based on body type alone. It takes all types, as long as they have talent and application, that's all that matters.

That's true Infamy it takes all types to make a footy team and I wasn't saying that we don't need any smalls. Rioli is proof that a high quality small can become an absolute gun. I wasn't meaning either to have a go at Edwards. Just that he was mentioned in relation to Rooke in the thread and I was just meaning it's not Edwards fault if he can't bulk up into a tank like Rooke. They are two completely different body types. We are though very undersized as a side both in terms of height and weight. I'm not sure why we need 9 players under six foot weighing in the 70kgs on our list. It's too many smalls and imbalances our list especially when compared to our lack of enough talls. I think this time next year at least half of those 180cm or shorter will be cut.

[Smokey]

.....at least half of those 180cm or shorter will be cut.

That's not really fair MT - as if they aren't short enough already!!   

[Con65]

back to Dustin Martin...would you if you were FJ or CC call out his name or Morabito's name on draft day?

Morabito is slightly taller - bigger body too....

(Not that I am upset with Martin, from the video package and draft camp results he looks the real deal...skilled on both feet, fast etc)

[Francois Jackson]

Someone like Shane Edwards no matter how much gym work he does, no matter how much protein drinks he consumes, and no matter how good our development of players could be, he will never end up with a Max Rooke body-type who can bash and crash their way through.

I understand your point, however not every player needs to be a bash and crash type like Max Rooke. Especially given the fact that if Max played for Richmond he'd be a whipping boy for averaging 11 disposals and 1 goal a game. Even Kayne Pettifer couldn't hold his spot in the side for 2 years despite pulling numbers like that. People have been calling for Tom Hislop's head all season for pulling numbers like that and he's only 20 years old.

Shane Edwards is 180cm & 76kg at the start of 2009 so add on some weight from this preseason. Andrew McLeod is 181cm and 81kg. I guarantee you that I'd take Andrew McLeod over Max Rooke every single time. No need to stereotype based on body type alone. It takes all types, as long as they have talent and application, that's all that matters.

Shane Edwards has one more season to step up. Im sick to death of using age as an excuse for performances like some they he has shown.

Yes he tried hard but the day Leon kicked 4 on him yet most on here thought he played well was the funniest thying i have ever heard.

Edwards will never be a player. Its so painful to watch every time he goes to tackle an opponent he gets brushed aside.

Compare that to Nahas who most times tackles an opponent effectively.

It is Edwards who should have been thrown up for trade not Tuck

ooh and just on the Pettifer vrs Rooke topic, how many tackles did Pathetic lay and how many times did he block for his teammates. Ill tell you

NONE!!!

Petrified is not even half the player Rooke is

[Penelope]

back to Dustin Martin...would you if you were FJ or CC call out his name or Morabito's name on draft day?

Morabito is slightly taller - bigger body too....

(Not that I am upset with Martin, from the video package and draft camp results he looks the real deal...skilled on both feet, fast etc)

Martin, no qualms about it. They both seem to be potentially qualty players but ;
'WA'S most likely first draft pick, Anthony Morabito, has a burning preference to play from his home state, but concedes his AFL career could start elsewhere.'

'"But the transition through to life as an AFL footballer would naturally be better staying at home and playing for a club in WA ... but at the end of the day it's not really my decision."

Morabito and his manager, Colin Young, have told eastern states clubs he would prefer to stay at home'

Too big a risk that you would only have him for a short time or that you may not get the best out of him because he doesn't want to be at the club.

[Infamy]

ooh and just on the Pettifer vrs Rooke topic, how many tackles did Pathetic lay and how many times did he block for his teammates. Ill tell you

NONE!!!

Petrified is not even half the player Rooke is

Talk about missing the point
I kinda figured you would though

[Tigermonk]

Its got nothing to do with age. AGE in football is NOT a factor.
l can real off heaps of players who never looked back after arriving at clubs & playing round 1
Problem with football was raising the draft age to 18 when a 15 year old is safe to play football at AFL level cause its soft football these days,  its not a mans game anymore.   Take the age restriction away & skill level & the game will pickup new momentum & create more buzz

Players have skills & talent before they arrive, thats is why they get drafted
Richmond has simply failed to develope players & thats a FACT

Player awareness,  basic skills & confidence are shot
Strengthening & protecting the body    we are pushovers

Talking & comparing Andrew McLeod lol the man is a champion with silky skills & excellent ability to read the game.  He would kick nearly all of our senior players ass at his age now.

But age has nothing to do with football as most kids aged 14 are bigger than thier own parents & coaches these days & alot of 15 year olds are playing senior foorball around the country & doing well.

Edwards is a player who needs to do extra work otherwise he be gone next year cause his skills & strength are poo

[TigerLand]

Goodness gracious me.

I think everyone would benefit from just posting on topics they know a little bit about rather than ranting and pretending they are Einsteins.

Development - The word revolves around time. Time is categorically related to age. You can't be developed over night. Champions aren't born in a day.

Each human body and brain evolves differently to its neighbor scientific fact. So to pigeon whole an age to say a player must be this good by this age is naive and dumb.

In any sport athletes gain experience in different ways, it can be fast tracked or slowed down by many reasons, most out of the athletes control. Experience has nothing to do with age but simply "time in the middle", "time on the ground" etc.

Development and gaining experience are the two underlying factors of an athletes career without them they can't be anything.

Everyone would agree that it takes time to acquire these attributes.

Any player under 21 even 22 can't even begin to be expected to have reached the potential of these key attributes. You'd be a fool to think otherwise.