Face Off - Spud v Wallace

[Mr Magic]

TW was great tactically and was a student of the game

Disagree strongly with this statement.
Great tactically, good student? From where I was sitting it was just one great jumbled mess that was made up as he went along.
Wallet had game plans and ideas about structure and team discipline about as far away from a premiership model as one could get but he could sure talk.

[Stripes]

TW was great tactically and was a student of the game

Disagree strongly with this statement.
Great tactically, good student? From where I was sitting it was just one great jumbled mess that was made up as he went along.
Wallet had game plans and ideas about structure and team discipline about as far away from a premiership model as one could get but he could sure talk.

What I'm trying to say here MM is that is knew everyone else's game plan inside and out and knew how it worked and how to counter it...unfortunately he never knew his own team and always tried to get his players to undertake actions or tactics they were not capable of doing. The only clever tactic is engineered which he successfully lead his team to use is the chip backwards/possession style ploy which saw off Adelaide. He was able to break down Hawthorns Zone too with simple strategy.

The big thing TW lacked was the ability to educate. He reminds me a bit of a Maths Secondary teacher I once had who Maths seemed so simple and straight forward that he just could not comprehend how anyone else could not understand it as easily as him.

TW tried to make us a Geelong and based his whole recruitment strategy based on that current trend. He was convinced that the new game style was all moving to an uncontested model with fast, athletic player types dominating the league. Unfortunately for him (and us) Sydney used a contested model to counter this style which then Hawthorn and Geelong adapted to create a zone game which disabled the skinny skillful players and pressured their ball use. While other teams continued to adapt, Terry was always playing catch up.

The best teams lead and forge ahead with new innovations where TW was always trying to find the best tactical and structural team model and change his list into that. If he had of followed his team mates adaptive approach in Eade, he would have realized that it is not one size fits all and changed his game plan to suit his list and young players.

I just hope Hardwick learns from Terry's mistakes and realizes that while it is sensible to use the best offensive and defensive strategies from other teams, ultimately you need to find what works best for you and you players.

So I think TW was a good student of the game, just not a good teacher.

Stripes

[Francois Jackson]

TW was great tactically and was a student of the game

Disagree strongly with this statement.
Great tactically, good student? From where I was sitting it was just one great jumbled mess that was made up as he went along.
Wallet had game plans and ideas about structure and team discipline about as far away from a premiership model as one could get but he could sure talk.

What I'm trying to say here MM is that is knew everyone else's game plan inside and out and knew how it worked and how to counter it...unfortunately he never knew his own team and always tried to get his players to undertake actions or tactics they were not capable of doing. The only clever tactic is engineered which he successfully lead his team to use is the chip backwards/possession style ploy which saw off Adelaide. He was able to break down Hawthorns Zone too with simple strategy.

The big thing TW lacked was the ability to educate. He reminds me a bit of a Maths Secondary teacher I once had who Maths seemed so simple and straight forward that he just could not comprehend how anyone else could not understand it as easily as him.

TW tried to make us a Geelong and based his whole recruitment strategy based on that current trend. He was convinced that the new game style was all moving to an uncontested model with fast, athletic player types dominating the league. Unfortunately for him (and us) Sydney used a contested model to counter this style which then Hawthorn and Geelong adapted to create a zone game which disabled the skinny skillful players and pressured their ball use. While other teams continued to adapt, Terry was always playing catch up.

The best teams lead and forge ahead with new innovations where TW was always trying to find the best tactical and structural team model and change his list into that. If he had of followed his team mates adaptive approach in Eade, he would have realized that it is not one size fits all and changed his game plan to suit his list and young players.

I just hope Hardwick learns from Terry's mistakes and realizes that while it is sensible to use the best offensive and defensive strategies from other teams, ultimately you need to find what works best for you and you players.

So I think TW was a good student of the game, just not a good teacher.

Stripes

 

that post was about as exciting as listening to one of Terry's post game speeches.

"good student of the game"....BANG!!! there it is ladies and gentleman the comment of 2009

[Infamy]

Spud has the runs on the board with a premiership under his belt

He has what???

[Jackstar is back]

TW was great tactically and was a student of the game

Disagree strongly with this statement.
Great tactically, good student? From where I was sitting it was just one great jumbled mess that was made up as he went along.
Wallet had game plans and ideas about structure and team discipline about as far away from a premiership model as one could get but he could sure talk.

What I'm trying to say here MM is that is knew everyone else's game plan inside and out and knew how it worked and how to counter it...unfortunately he never knew his own team and always tried to get his players to undertake actions or tactics they were not capable of doing. The only clever tactic is engineered which he successfully lead his team to use is the chip backwards/possession style ploy which saw off Adelaide. He was able to break down Hawthorns Zone too with simple strategy.

The big thing TW lacked was the ability to educate. He reminds me a bit of a Maths Secondary teacher I once had who Maths seemed so simple and straight forward that he just could not comprehend how anyone else could not understand it as easily as him.

TW tried to make us a Geelong and based his whole recruitment strategy based on that current trend. He was convinced that the new game style was all moving to an uncontested model with fast, athletic player types dominating the league. Unfortunately for him (and us) Sydney used a contested model to counter this style which then Hawthorn and Geelong adapted to create a zone game which disabled the skinny skillful players and pressured their ball use. While other teams continued to adapt, Terry was always playing catch up.

The best teams lead and forge ahead with new innovations where TW was always trying to find the best tactical and structural team model and change his list into that. If he had of followed his team mates adaptive approach in Eade, he would have realized that it is not one size fits all and changed his game plan to suit his list and young players.

I just hope Hardwick learns from Terry's mistakes and realizes that while it is sensible to use the best offensive and defensive strategies from other teams, ultimately you need to find what works best for you and you players.

So I think TW was a good student of the game, just not a good teacher.

Stripes

Now Stripes.
tell you this.
Terry had little idea and was way to set in his ways.
He objected to people challenging him , thus I was shown the door,
I laugh my head off when you say Terry knew everyones game plan, he thought he did, HE DIDNT
He had little idea and when we would be getting beaten early in a game, he had no plan B  ,Plan  A was gone and out the door
Only option was to ""get big Ricky behind the ball and stop the bleeding ""  ( Richo ).
FACT

[Moi]

He objected to people challenging him , thus I was shown the door,

Took you a while but you finally admit it 

[Mr Magic]

What I'm trying to say here MM is that is knew everyone else's game plan inside and out and knew how it worked and how to counter it...

Thoughtful post but that statement's pretty funny Stripes.
You credit Wallet way too much for a couple of gimmicky counter punch wins.

Wallet was tactically out coached by his peers on too many occasions that I care to mention because his fundamental thought processes on what it takes to be a top team were completely wrong.

Good student? I think not.

[Tigermonk]

Wallace tactical  last night l spat coke over my screen from laughing & tonight after reading that Wallace was great tactical & good student l fell like spewing.
His the worst coach Richmond ever had FACT. his a big mouth going nowhere but downhill.
The fact about Richmond is we cant get any worse & the future under Hardwick can only get better.
Listening to Leatherskins comments on radio about Richmond is the biggest crock of poo l heard in football.
How that prick can still face the football world & beleives his own spin & what people say behind his back, its time some of his co commentators got some balls & told this bloke where his really at.

[Jackstar is back]

He objected to people challenging him , thus I was shown the door,

Took you a while but you finally admit it 

* thought you were on holidays?
* At least i had the interests of the RFC ,thus I stood up him..
* Other staff who challenged him have moved on and to bigger and better things,
* and whats the point of a coach have yes men surrounding him, that was Wallaces problem.

Funny he gave Dave Wheadon the flick and Dave has become the ""silent " brains behind Bomber Thompson at Geelong.

Secret of coaching is this, surround yourself with the best possible people, not friends.

Geelong is the perfect example. They got Cook, Balme, Wheadon, Dr Chris Bradshaw, Duncan Kellway etc etc.
We in the past have had Wayne Johnstone Monkhurst David King , Brian Royal,( nice bloke , NO IDEA )
and lets dont mention our club doctor ( dr death) who continually sent injured players back on the ground.  Ask Foley what he thinks

[Francois Jackson]

Wallace tactical  last night l spat coke over my screen from laughing & tonight after reading that Wallace was great tactical & good student l fell like spewing.
His the worst coach Richmond ever had FACT. his a big mouth going nowhere but downhill.
The fact about Richmond is we cant get any worse & the future under Hardwick can only get better.
Listening to Leatherskins comments on radio about Richmond is the biggest crock of poo l heard in football.
How that prick can still face the football world & beleives his own spin & what people say behind his back, its time some of his co commentators got some balls & told this bloke where his really at.

not only is Spud a better coach and person, but Hardwick is also.

if this was a Hardwick vrs Wallace thread id say Hardwick is so far in front its not funny.

Wallace at this stage had just recruited Mark Graham and Trent Knobel with the sensational 2004 draft to follow..and that was only his first year..

but who am i to judge? 

I must remind myself that leather face is a great teacher of AFL Football. A fountain of knowledge our friend was

[Hellenic Tiger]

Stripes you mention Spud had the runs on the board with a premiership? When? Winning Bungaree Under 12's does not count. Unless you are mentioning his defensive role at Hawthorn last year? Anyway I think they are both duds. I think you present a good argument but in this case as others mentioned Wallace was inept.

Here's another blurb for a movie. Perhaps someone could do picture for this.

Two lovers joined in an illicit romance of failure and perenial underachieving. No matter what they did failure was the option and the only option. One bumbled his way from cherry ripes and sticking fat while the other was as brown as a sultana and as wrinkly as my grandma talking himself up and loving the sound of his own voice. Together they formed a legacy no RFC supprter would ever forget in a hurry. In the mould of Mickey Rourke and Kim Basinger we present this steamy love fest 9 and a half years.

[Stripes]

that post was about as exciting as listening to one of Terry's post game speeches.

"good student of the game"....BANG!!! there it is ladies and gentleman the comment of 2009

daniel, you seem like you are taking this personally. I was only pointing out the differences I believe their is between Wallace and Spud, not attacking you directly. It is widely believed that Wallace has a good knowledge of football in general and tactics is one of his strengths. Now you obviously disagree but my opinion of TW is exactly that, my opinion, and I can only form that, like you have, on observations and evidence.

My statement that I felt that Wallace was 'a good student of the game' is not necessarily a positive one. If you read further in the post  I followed that comment by saying that he was not able to educate his players with the same knowledge or direct them correctly in Tactics that they could execute on the field.

TW was a poor coach because regardless of his own knowledge and footy smarts he was unable to pass them onto his players. He tried to use other teams tactics and game plan and make it fit our list which just did not work. This is why he failed as a coach.

I'm not being complimentary to him here. Perhaps if I swore a bit and threw a few more insults into my posts people may understand this a bit more.

Stripes

[Stripes]

Spud has the runs on the board with a premiership under his belt

He has what???

Whoops!  What I meant to say was a preliminary final under his belt. Sorry about the confusion.

 

[torch]

i understand Stripes!

remember everyone, it is an opinion!

 

[Stripes]

Now Stripes.
tell you this.
Terry had little idea and was way to set in his ways.
He objected to people challenging him , thus I was shown the door,
I laugh my head off when you say Terry knew everyones game plan, he thought he did, HE DIDNT
He had little idea and when we would be getting beaten early in a game, he had no plan B  ,Plan  A was gone and out the door
Only option was to ""get big Ricky behind the ball and stop the bleeding ""  ( Richo ).
FACT

You have the inside knowledge that I don't Jack. Perhaps you are correct, he may have appeared to know every teams game plan more than what was actual reality but regardless I just think he didn't know how to teach the kids on our list how to play in a way that firstly worked with their strengths. He always seemed to be looking at what other teams were doing and trying to get our players to do the same. He never seemed to have an original idea himself and by the sounds of it Jack, was insecure to boot.

He had me fooled for a long time and bought his vision hook line and sinker. His disloyalty was the last straw for me.

Stripes