Face Off - Spud v Wallace

[tdy]

When Spud left we had virtually no youth and had to start from scratch.

Thats not true.  Terry dropped pretty much all of the 17 and 18 year olds from the club in his first year.  That is why we had an age gap.  We had 8-12 young players that Wallace thought had no skill and dropped.

[Stripes]

When Spud left we had virtually no youth and had to start from scratch.

Thats not true.  Terry dropped pretty much all of the 17 and 18 year olds from the club in his first year.  That is why we had an age gap.  We had 8-12 young players that Wallace thought had no skill and dropped.

Can you remember who they were tdyen? Where you surprised at the time by any of their departures?

[big tone]

But like Spud we move on but one thing i will never forget as long as im alive and well, is the disloyalty shown by him by squeeling to his media mates amongst other things which he leaked.

I get the feeling he knew his papers were stamped so by feeding the media he would prepare for a job with his "friends" once he gets sacked.

The fact that he would constantly refer to the Buldogs list in his defence for the rabble he created with ours, was the single most pathetic thing i have ever heard come out of any ex coach's mouth.

I think we all agree, Hardwick is on the right track by keeping all those picks and resisting the temptation to get involved in trade week

This is the part that completely lost me as well. The minute he showed disloyalty to our great club absolved me of all feelings of loyalty to him. Those comments finally revealed to me how self serving and two faced he was - a fact I refused to want to believe when they were brought up on these boards in the past. In addition, the way TW spent the majority of his final press conference apologizing to the Western Bulldogs and then promoting himself to get a new future job rather than speak about the great club that gave him an opportunity to lead it made me sick.

I just hope Hardwick can bring a hard, defensive, team-first and, most of all, honest demands to the club that we have lacked for so long. I don't think coaches should be brutal honest to the media but they don't need to spin false hope either.

Stripes

I'm surprised a man of your informative and intersesting posts took that long to jump off- considering we were 4 and a half years into his coaching stint and he had been sacked, and still this was the thing that finally changed your opinion on him, his comments..... Strange!

[tdy]

When Spud left we had virtually no youth and had to start from scratch.

Thats not true.  Terry dropped pretty much all of the 17 and 18 year olds from the club in his first year.  That is why we had an age gap.  We had 8-12 young players that Wallace thought had no skill and dropped.

Can you remember who they were tdyen? Where you surprised at the time by any of their departures?

No I can't, but I was surprised at the time, pretty much none of them got a chance to actually prove they could make it at AFL level.  Few players really show much in their first two years.   It was a bit of a "He's a Frawley era player get rid of him" attitude.  Imagine if Paul Roos had taken that attitude at Sydney!

I think Brent Hartigan was one of the few who got kept on for a few seasons.

Wallace had his good points and bad points like anyone.
He ran the media side of footy very well, as well as any coach has.  He did understand what was going on on the ground better than Spud.  

He also coached average, developed players poorly and probably didn't pick (if he had any influence on this) good medical and fitness people.

And there is the draft picks, but the record here I think has equally as much to do with poor player development as poor selections.

rats my wife has busted me on the richmond boards, gotta go!

[Tigermonk]

  does your wife wear the pants & boots in your house 

[Smokey]

No I can't, but I was surprised at the time, pretty much none of them got a chance to actually prove they could make it at AFL level.  Few players really show much in their first two years.   It was a bit of a "He's a Frawley era player get rid of him" attitude.  Imagine if Paul Roos had taken that attitude at Sydney!

Not a fair comparison with Roos.  He took over a club that had finished 1st (runners up), 6th, 3rd (out in semis), 8th, 10th and 7th - missed the finals once in 6 years including a grand final.  He had been an assistant with the list he took over, he already had the nucleus of the side that eventually won the premiership and had no need to clean out.  Wallace most definitely had a need and not one of his discards succeeded elsewhere.

[Stripes]

I'm surprised a man of your informative and intersesting posts took that long to jump off- considering we were 4 and a half years into his coaching stint and he had been sacked, and still this was the thing that finally changed your opinion on him, his comments..... Strange!

I was far from happy with the way the club was going by the time he left and fell off the 'complete belief and support' bandwagon years earlier but I still hoped that the players he had had under his tutorage for 5 years would all start to come of age and he could finally use his 'tactical nous' to secure our first finals berth. I couldn't stand the style we were playing for the last 4 years but felt perhaps this would be addressed where it never was.

All is all I'm a loyal supporter and I had hoped TW would bring our club the success I had seen him deliver to the Dogs. I still do not understand how he could bring one style of play in one club and achieve such success with it yet bring a completely different style to our club and achieve only failure. My only explanation is that he was not responsible for the defensive style of the dogs but rather the players themselves were.

I will give Hardwick the same loyalty and support now but I must say I am now much more critical and jaded towards our club and coaches now that I was. Thanks Terry.

What I still do believe is that TW was correct with our list. He stated (stupidly to the media) that we our currently crop of young players would take 7 years before we saw sustained finals success from their inception. This would indicate 2011 is the year we will begin our finals stint which corresponds to our top tier youth reaching the 21 - 25 age bracket.

I'm hoping at least one thing that came from his mouth was actually truthful and correct 

So I guess my hope and belief in the man is strange in retrospect but I always hope for the best and believe in the future. Make's me a happier person I feel overall. I'm a victim of my own unwavering loyalty to the things I love and the Tigers fall into that category.

Stripes

[Smokey]

I'm surprised a man of your informative and intersesting posts took that long to jump off- considering we were 4 and a half years into his coaching stint and he had been sacked, and still this was the thing that finally changed your opinion on him, his comments..... Strange!

I was far from happy with the way the club was going by the time he left and fell off the 'complete belief and support' bandwagon years earlier but I still hoped that the players he had had under his tutorage for 5 years would all start to come of age and he could finally use his 'tactical nous' to secure our first finals berth. I couldn't stand the style we were playing for the last 4 years but felt perhaps this would be addressed where it never was.

All is all I'm a loyal supporter and I had hoped TW would bring our club the success I had seen him deliver to the Dogs. I still do not understand how he could bring one style of play in one club and achieve such success with it yet bring a completely different style to our club and achieve only failure. My only explanation is that he was not responsible for the defensive style of the dogs but rather the players themselves were.

I will give Hardwick the same loyalty and support now but I must say I am now much more critical and jaded towards our club and coaches now that I was. Thanks Terry.

What I still do believe is that TW was correct with our list. He stated (stupidly to the media) that we our currently crop of young players would take 7 years before we saw sustained finals success from their inception. This would indicate 2011 is the year we will begin our finals stint which corresponds to our top tier youth reaching the 21 - 25 age bracket.

I'm hoping at least one thing that came from his mouth was actually truthful and correct 

So I guess my hope and belief in the man is strange in retrospect but I always hope for the best and believe in the future. Make's me a happier person I feel overall. I'm a victim of my own unwavering loyalty to the things I love and the Tigers fall into that category.

Stripes

x 2.

You couldn't have summed me up more accurately Stripes.  Loyalty beyond reason has cost me dearly a few times in life but it's a trait I also hold up high - a positive virtue you can't buy, sell or inherit - it comes from deep within.

Yep, we all saw the cracks appearing a long time before some of us finally jumped (last rats off the ship almost) but given that time again I would still make the same mistakes because that's just who I am.  The movie "Meet The Fokkers" springs to mind here - if you are in my 'Circle of Trust' then it is very very hard to hop out - and everything RFC is squarely in the middle of my circle.

 

[Francois Jackson]

Great Post.

To stripes and co good to see you admit that TW had you fooled. Personally he fooled me in his first year, but in my eyes he was finished as a senior coach after the Geelong thrashing.

I'm surprised a man of your informative and intersesting posts took that long to jump off- considering we were 4 and a half years into his coaching stint and he had been sacked, and still this was the thing that finally changed your opinion on him, his comments..... Strange!

Stripes

read post above..

it would pay to read my posts but i guess it may be hard when you have an IQ of 10.

took me 4 and a half years- biggest laugh i have had all year, thanks!!

[Stripes]

Great Post.

To stripes and co good to see you admit that TW had you fooled. Personally he fooled me in his first year, but in my eyes he was finished as a senior coach after the Geelong thrashing.

I'm surprised a man of your informative and intersesting posts took that long to jump off- considering we were 4 and a half years into his coaching stint and he had been sacked, and still this was the thing that finally changed your opinion on him, his comments..... Strange!

Stripes

read post above..

it would pay to read my posts but i guess it may be hard when you have an IQ of 10.

took me 4 and a half years- biggest laugh i have had all year, thanks!!

Was that comment directed at me daniel?

[big tone]

Great Post.

To stripes and co good to see you admit that TW had you fooled. Personally he fooled me in his first year, but in my eyes he was finished as a senior coach after the Geelong thrashing.

I'm surprised a man of your informative and intersesting posts took that long to jump off- considering we were 4 and a half years into his coaching stint and he had been sacked, and still this was the thing that finally changed your opinion on him, his comments..... Strange!

Stripes

read post above..

it would pay to read my posts but i guess it may be hard when you have an IQ of 10.

took me 4 and a half years- biggest laugh i have had all year, thanks!!

Was that comment directed at me daniel?

Or me?... I was replying to Stripes.

[Stripes]

Great Post.

To stripes and co good to see you admit that TW had you fooled. Personally he fooled me in his first year, but in my eyes he was finished as a senior coach after the Geelong thrashing.

I'm surprised a man of your informative and intersesting posts took that long to jump off- considering we were 4 and a half years into his coaching stint and he had been sacked, and still this was the thing that finally changed your opinion on him, his comments..... Strange!

Stripes

read post above..

it would pay to read my posts but i guess it may be hard when you have an IQ of 10.

took me 4 and a half years- biggest laugh i have had all year, thanks!!

Was that comment directed at me daniel?

Or me?... I was replying to Stripes.

I think you may have mixed up big tone and my posts daniel. Big tone was expressing his disbelief that it took me 4 and a half years before I fully woke up to TW but you have big tones quote with my name underneath so this is why we are a little confused.

Either way daniel - glad you are having a good laugh. It's good for the soul they say.

[Francois Jackson]

Great Post.

To stripes and co good to see you admit that TW had you fooled. Personally he fooled me in his first year, but in my eyes he was finished as a senior coach after the Geelong thrashing.

I'm surprised a man of your informative and intersesting posts took that long to jump off- considering we were 4 and a half years into his coaching stint and he had been sacked, and still this was the thing that finally changed your opinion on him, his comments..... Strange!

Stripes

read post above..

it would pay to read my posts but i guess it may be hard when you have an IQ of 10.

took me 4 and a half years- biggest laugh i have had all year, thanks!!

Was that comment directed at me daniel?

Or me?... I was replying to Stripes.

my apologies. Terry Wallet threads always get my blood boiling.

great thread.

first time we all agree for a change.

[mightytiges]

When Spud left we had virtually no youth and had to start from scratch.

Thats not true.  Terry dropped pretty much all of the 17 and 18 year olds from the club in his first year.  That is why we had an age gap.  We had 8-12 young players that Wallace thought had no skill and dropped.

Can you remember who they were tdyen? Where you surprised at the time by any of their departures?

No I can't, but I was surprised at the time, pretty much none of them got a chance to actually prove they could make it at AFL level.  Few players really show much in their first two years.   It was a bit of a "He's a Frawley era player get rid of him" attitude.  Imagine if Paul Roos had taken that attitude at Sydney!

I think Brent Hartigan was one of the few who got kept on for a few seasons.

Wallace had his good points and bad points like anyone.
He ran the media side of footy very well, as well as any coach has.  He did understand what was going on on the ground better than Spud.  

He also coached average, developed players poorly and probably didn't pick (if he had any influence on this) good medical and fitness people.

And there is the draft picks, but the record here I think has equally as much to do with poor player development as poor selections.

rats my wife has busted me on the richmond boards, gotta go!

Below is our list at the end of Spud's reign. The red names are those who either retired or were offloaded when Wallace arrived.

Of the 23 and unders inherited only Pettifer and Schulz were top 20 picks  . Cogs, Rodan and the speculative Gilmour were the only others inside pick 40. This from a team that missed the finals in 4 of Spud's 5 years and had 14 top 40 picks. The rest were mostly post-pick 50 draft picks. Spud left us with hardly no quality youngsters coming through. At best we got a few solid AFL footballers. Wallace kept all those U22 on. The problem with Plough is after his first draft/trade period he didn't allow us to bottom out and turnover the list quickly so we stagnated in no-man's land (once again). For example Terry while commentating one of our games in 2004 openly said he didn't believe Schulz was up to it yet Schulz in the end out-survived Wallace at Punt Road 5 years later  ???. 
 
32: Campbell (vet)
31. D.Kellaway (vet), Rogers
30: Stafford
29: A.Kellaway, Richardson
28: Gaspar, Marsh
27: Blumfield, Chaffey
26: Brown, Bowden, Fleming, Fletcher, Houlihan, Johnson
25: Hilton, Tivendale
24: Hall, Ottens
23: Fiora, Morrison, Nicholls, Tuck, Dragicevic#
22: Coughlan, Hyde, Newman, Pettifer, Weller, Zantuck
21: Krakouer, Rodan
20: Moore#
19: Hartigan, Roach, Schulz, Foley#
18: Archibald, Gilmour, Jackson, Raines

[Stripes]

Great post MT. Frawley really did leave us with nothing to build on at all. It is ironic that of those still remaining from TW's arrival there is only Richo, Tuck (who he was going to delist), Newman and Jackson. The only other two still here is two rookies - Moore and Foley. Perhaps our rookies were chosen or the responsibility of someone other than Miller?

Wallace made a hell of a lot of bad decisions in his tenure and I think his first one was to take over from Spud to come to Tigerland when the Hawks were waiting. 

Stripes