Face Off - Spud v Wallace

[Stripes]

What I'm trying to say here MM is that is knew everyone else's game plan inside and out and knew how it worked and how to counter it...

Thoughtful post but that statement's pretty funny Stripes.
You credit Wallet way too much for a couple of gimmicky counter punch wins.

Wallet was tactically out coached by his peers on too many occasions that I care to mention because his fundamental thought processes on what it takes to be a top team were completely wrong.

Good student? I think not.

Evidence shows that you are correct MM, he was out coached on many the occasion and his understanding of what constitutes a winning team was a long way off the money. In retrospect I think he had a few good tactical wins but overall he didn't know how to create a concrete game plan that his players could use week, week out to win games. He changed far too much and the players just couldn't keep up.

[Stripes]

i understand Stripes!

remember everyone, it is an opinion!

 

I don't discredit anyone's comments or opinions on these boards even if they don't match my own. Everyone who writes I here is a passionate Tigers Supporters so how can you not respect them for that?

Thanks just my opinion of course. 

Stripes

[mat073]

I thought that this was a juicy thread Stripes.Well done.

A pleasant change from all the trade week and National draft talk.

[Infamy]

Spud has the runs on the board with a premiership under his belt

He has what???

Whoops!  What I meant to say was a preliminary final under his belt. Sorry about the confusion.

 

However Wallace got the Dogs playing quite a bit of finals football, I guess the question is who was the better coach, or who was the better Richmond coach

[Mr Magic]

It is widely believed that Wallace has a good knowledge of football in general and tactics is one of his strengths.

Please Striper you're killing me. 

Evidence shows that you are correct MM, he was out coached on many the occasion and his understanding of what constitutes a winning team was a long way off the money. In retrospect I think he had a few good tactical wins but overall he didn't know how to create a concrete game plan that his players could use week, week out to win games. He changed far too much and the players just couldn't keep up.

It's all good Striper.
No shame in being fooled by the watch salesman. I think Terry's pulled the wool over plenty of eyes over his tenure in footy.
I had cottoned onto him quite some time ago but even still deep down I was hoping that this year he would soundly quash my by then significant doubts.
His ego far outweighed his abilities and likely always will but I think he'll find things tougher from here on.

Great thread btw. Keep up the good posting.

In the mould of Mickey Rourke and Kim Basinger we present this steamy love fest 9 and a half years.

 
Now that is truly gold Tuck. Only problem is it's been more like a horror fest than a romance.

[mightytiges]

Almost a NIL ALL scoreline

Spud
* Totally decimated a reasonable list after living off the final remnants of the 1995 core and topping it up with quick fix rubbish.
* Kept using Plan A even 3 years after it had stopped working.
* Bored everyone to death that our membership fell by 5,000
* Was surrounded by people both above and below him at the Club who had no idea about managing an AFL footy department and playing list.

Plough
* Clayton's rebuild - the rebuild you have when you can't make up your mind if you're rebuilding or not.
* Poor teacher.
* Kept changing the gameplan and where everyone played even in the few situations where things actually started to come together. Didn't present a big picture to the playing group and lost them.
* Was surrounded by people both above and below him at the Club who had no idea about managing an AFL footy department and playing list.

I'd only give it to Plough because the Club is in better shape than it was in 2004 (not much of a compliment) and despite doing a quarter of a job we still have some semblance of a base of youth to build upon and re-educate. When Spud left we had virtually no youth and had to start from scratch.

[Stripes]

So what did Wallace do RIGHT over at the Doggies that brought him so much success there yet he failed here?



Good summary MT

Stripes

[Mr Magic]

So what did Wallace do RIGHT over at the Doggies that brought him so much success there yet he failed here?

Maybe he simply inherited a good list?
His results got worse at the Bullies with every passing year before his eventual departure.

[mat073]

You maybe right Mr Magic in that Terry inherited a good list at the Western Bulldogs....but to his credit he was good enough to take them to the finals four years in a row.(whats that like ?)
Robert Walls by comparison inherited a strong Richmond list back in 1996 and seriously under achieved.

I hated Terry's Bulldogs.....but you had to respect them.They were the "school yard bullies" of the competition.
My memories of the Bulldogs circa 1997-2000 were of a team that was very physical (tough) but also possessed a strong running game with a high skill level.
I had hoped that Terry would bring all these attributes to Richmond....even fantasised that in time we would become the hated school yard bullies of the competition......boy was I wrong.

After almost 5 years of Terry... Richmond was still as "soft as butter" and the team contains too many players with average/poor skills.

[Smokey]

You maybe right Mr Magic in that Terry inherited a good list at the Western Bulldogs....but to his credit he was good enough to take them to the finals four years in a row.(whats that like ?)
Robert Walls by comparison inherited a strong Richmond list back in 1996 and seriously under achieved.

I hated Terry's Bulldogs.....but you had to respect them.They were the "school yard bullies" of the competition.
My memories of the Bulldogs circa 1997-2000 were of a team that was very physical (tough) but also possessed a strong running game with a high skill level.
I had hoped that Terry would bring all these attributes to Richmond....even fantasised that in time we would become the hated school yard bullies of the competition......boy was I wrong.

After almost 5 years of Terry... Richmond was still as "soft as butter" and the team contains too many players with average/poor skills.

Couldn't have said it better myself Mat.  And like Stripes, I swallowed the Wallace spin - hook, line and sinker.  To me he had the runs on the board at the Bulldogs and if he produced the same 'junkyard dog' attitude with our team then I was very confident we were on the right track.  Chalk another one up to life and it's curve balls. 

[Stripes]

You maybe right Mr Magic in that Terry inherited a good list at the Western Bulldogs....but to his credit he was good enough to take them to the finals four years in a row.(whats that like ?)
Robert Walls by comparison inherited a strong Richmond list back in 1996 and seriously under achieved.

I hated Terry's Bulldogs.....but you had to respect them.They were the "school yard bullies" of the competition.
My memories of the Bulldogs circa 1997-2000 were of a team that was very physical (tough) but also possessed a strong running game with a high skill level.
I had hoped that Terry would bring all these attributes to Richmond....even fantasised that in time we would become the hated school yard bullies of the competition......boy was I wrong.

After almost 5 years of Terry... Richmond was still as "soft as butter" and the team contains too many players with average/poor skills.

Couldn't have said it better myself Mat.  And like Stripes, I swallowed the Wallace spin - hook, line and sinker.  To me he had the runs on the board at the Bulldogs and if he produced the same 'junkyard dog' attitude with our team then I was very confident we were on the right track.  Chalk another one up to life and it's curve balls. 

Maybe the fight came from the players rather than the coach. Maybe the 'bullying' was part of the Dogs team and Terry just absorbed that as part of the way the team played rather than what was directed by him as part of his game plan. Perhaps given the Tigers lack of size and development this sort of fight was beyond them or perhaps I am making excuses...

Was Terry's dogs remembered for their 1% and tackling because that was certainly not a priority for Terry's Tigers. Did Spud encourage the defensive elements to the teams game plan? Was tackling, shepherding etc a priority for Spud?

Stripes

[Tigermonk]

Look l will put it to everyone plain & simple

Wallace came to Richmond saying our skills were pathetic & that we would go quickly, long & direct & kick 16 goals as a target which should win most games.
He said the supporters should buy a membership cause times at Richmond were going to be better times, off course all us here have continued to support long before our last premiership. he said there would be no-more ugly football

Well he turned over nearly all the list & we had the softest team in the league with the most pathetic skills & most pathetic gameplan at the end of his term
He has no excuses what so ever. He had drafted the best youngsters & had the right mix of experience but couldnot get the playing group to play his basketcase style
He made some of the worst coaches decisions l seen at Richmond & watched his staff make poor decisions which he didnot overule.

He left us with a list of skinny dum skill-less players that play the most ugly football in the league that you would prefer to watch the halftime little league players in hope they get more time on the ground because you didnot want to see Richmond after 1/2 time come out.

This year l reckon l seen the weakest team getting around that has no guts & no fight & players would watch his team-mate get punched around & watch just like Joel Bowden did in his last game which was gutless & Nathan Brown just about holding his hand.

All the hard stuff was left to players like Kingy & Hislop who were prepared to backup thier team-mates while the Captain Newman showed no guts & leadership.
Others had given up & were just happy playing football at any level reguardless

All this type of football stems from the person who is coaching you & that is one Terry Wallace & Jade Rawlings along with the assistant coaches who was teaching us how to become basketball players & they couldnot even get that right

Yes l will move on when Hardwick takes over & chops the heads off those who play like pee ants & dont do thier bit for the team.
l will support Hardwick to make the right decisions for the club & help improve the level of football that we have been forced to watch over the last 5 years.
Even if we dont win games, as long as they play football like league footballers,  than l have no gripe & the club moves forwards to playing finals football & not just being a team that makes up the 8 but is unpredictable to beat anyone on thier day.

How much we all like to see a Richmond side that can play football like they did against Geelong early this season kicking 8 goals against a premiership side in one quarter & nearly causing a upset but was dogged by umpiring decisions we can only hope

As for Wallace he was always a dud 

[Jackstar is back]

Look l will put it to everyone plain & simple

Wallace came to Richmond saying our skills were pathetic & that we would go quickly, long & direct & kick 16 goals as a target which should win most games.
He said the supporters should buy a membership cause times at Richmond were going to be better times, off course all us here have continued to support long before our last premiership. he said there would be no-more ugly football

Well he turned over nearly all the list & we had the softest team in the league with the most pathetic skills & most pathetic gameplan at the end of his term
He has no excuses what so ever. He had drafted the best youngsters & had the right mix of experience but couldnot get the playing group to play his basketcase style
He made some of the worst coaches decisions l seen at Richmond & watched his staff make poor decisions which he didnot overule.

He left us with a list of skinny dum skill-less players that play the most ugly football in the league that you would prefer to watch the halftime little league players in hope they get more time on the ground because you didnot want to see Richmond after 1/2 time come out.

This year l reckon l seen the weakest team getting around that has no guts & no fight & players would watch his team-mate get punched around & watch just like Joel Bowden did in his last game which was gutless & Nathan Brown just about holding his hand.

All the hard stuff was left to players like Kingy & Hislop who were prepared to backup thier team-mates while the Captain Newman showed no guts & leadership.
Others had given up & were just happy playing football at any level reguardless

All this type of football stems from the person who is coaching you & that is one Terry Wallace & Jade Rawlings along with the assistant coaches who was teaching us how to become basketball players & they couldnot even get that right

Yes l will move on when Hardwick takes over & chops the heads off those who play like pee ants & dont do thier bit for the team.
l will support Hardwick to make the right decisions for the club & help improve the level of football that we have been forced to watch over the last 5 years.
Even if we dont win games, as long as they play football like league footballers,  than l have no gripe & the club moves forwards to playing finals football & not just being a team that makes up the 8 but is unpredictable to beat anyone on thier day.

How much we all like to see a Richmond side that can play football like they did against Geelong early this season kicking 8 goals against a premiership side in one quarter & nearly causing a upset but was dogged by umpiring decisions we can only hope

As for Wallace he was always a dud 

Totally agree

[Francois Jackson]

Look l will put it to everyone plain & simple

Wallace came to Richmond saying our skills were pathetic & that we would go quickly, long & direct & kick 16 goals as a target which should win most games.
He said the supporters should buy a membership cause times at Richmond were going to be better times, off course all us here have continued to support long before our last premiership. he said there would be no-more ugly football

Well he turned over nearly all the list & we had the softest team in the league with the most pathetic skills & most pathetic gameplan at the end of his term
He has no excuses what so ever. He had drafted the best youngsters & had the right mix of experience but couldnot get the playing group to play his basketcase style
He made some of the worst coaches decisions l seen at Richmond & watched his staff make poor decisions which he didnot overule.

He left us with a list of skinny dum skill-less players that play the most ugly football in the league that you would prefer to watch the halftime little league players in hope they get more time on the ground because you didnot want to see Richmond after 1/2 time come out.

This year l reckon l seen the weakest team getting around that has no guts & no fight & players would watch his team-mate get punched around & watch just like Joel Bowden did in his last game which was gutless & Nathan Brown just about holding his hand.

All the hard stuff was left to players like Kingy & Hislop who were prepared to backup thier team-mates while the Captain Newman showed no guts & leadership.
Others had given up & were just happy playing football at any level reguardless

All this type of football stems from the person who is coaching you & that is one Terry Wallace & Jade Rawlings along with the assistant coaches who was teaching us how to become basketball players & they couldnot even get that right

Yes l will move on when Hardwick takes over & chops the heads off those who play like pee ants & dont do thier bit for the team.
l will support Hardwick to make the right decisions for the club & help improve the level of football that we have been forced to watch over the last 5 years.
Even if we dont win games, as long as they play football like league footballers,  than l have no gripe & the club moves forwards to playing finals football & not just being a team that makes up the 8 but is unpredictable to beat anyone on thier day.

How much we all like to see a Richmond side that can play football like they did against Geelong early this season kicking 8 goals against a premiership side in one quarter & nearly causing a upset but was dogged by umpiring decisions we can only hope

As for Wallace he was always a dud 

Great Post.

To stripes and co good to see you admit that TW had you fooled. Personally he fooled me in his first year, but in my eyes he was finished as a senior coach after the Geelong thrashing.

Even up until last year some on here refused to listen to reason, and some were still were hopefull he would continue on because it was all part of his master 5 year plan.

I think the key is in recruitment and development. Leatherface biggest mistake was to misjudge this list after his first year. That 5 year plan has set us back a further 3-5 years due to bad recruiting decisions and not hiring the best people to surround him, rather hacks like Monkhurst, McCrae and Royal.

But like Spud we move on but one thing i will never forget as long as im alive and well, is the disloyalty shown by him by squeeling to his media mates amongst other things which he leaked.

I get the feeling he knew his papers were stamped so by feeding the media he would prepare for a job with his "friends" once he gets sacked.

The fact that he would constantly refer to the Buldogs list in his defence for the rabble he created with ours, was the single most pathetic thing i have ever heard come out of any ex coach's mouth.

I think we all agree, Hardwick is on the right track by keeping all those picks and resisting the temptation to get involved in trade week

[Stripes]

But like Spud we move on but one thing i will never forget as long as im alive and well, is the disloyalty shown by him by squeeling to his media mates amongst other things which he leaked.

I get the feeling he knew his papers were stamped so by feeding the media he would prepare for a job with his "friends" once he gets sacked.

The fact that he would constantly refer to the Buldogs list in his defence for the rabble he created with ours, was the single most pathetic thing i have ever heard come out of any ex coach's mouth.

I think we all agree, Hardwick is on the right track by keeping all those picks and resisting the temptation to get involved in trade week

This is the part that completely lost me as well. The minute he showed disloyalty to our great club absolved me of all feelings of loyalty to him. Those comments finally revealed to me how self serving and two faced he was - a fact I refused to want to believe when they were brought up on these boards in the past. In addition, the way TW spent the majority of his final press conference apologizing to the Western Bulldogs and then promoting himself to get a new future job rather than speak about the great club that gave him an opportunity to lead it made me sick.

I just hope Hardwick can bring a hard, defensive, team-first and, most of all, honest demands to the club that we have lacked for so long. I don't think coaches should be brutal honest to the media but they don't need to spin false hope either.

Stripes