Bachar Houli [merged]

[Owl]

His beard flying in the wind...magnificent,

[big tone]

His direct opponents kicked 5 on him yesterday.
I watched him really closely yesterday and not from the armchair in my lounge room.

But he had 30 again so all good....

Gets heaps of footy and nobody can deny that but the facts are small forwards are kicking goals against us. (6 again yesterday)

Will it take a small forward to kick a bag in a final and we lose for some that only watch him with ball in hand to see that.

Even on the telecast at the end of the first quarter showed him standing 5m off his direct opponent at a centre square ball up.

If you think Hardwick says “show your opponent no respect and just get the footy” you are wrong.
He is only doing half his job.

[Lozza]

His direct opponents kicked 5 on him yesterday.
I watched him really closely yesterday and not from the armchair in my lounge room.

But he had 30 again so all good....

Gets heaps of footy and nobody can deny that but the facts are small forwards are kicking goals against us. (6 again yesterday)

Will it take a small forward to kick a bag in a final and we lose for some that only watch him with ball in hand to see that.

Even on the telecast at the end of the first quarter showed him standing 5m off his direct opponent at a centre square ball up.

If you think Hardwick says “show your opponent no respect and just get the footy” you are wrong.
He is only doing half his job.

Thought Short was similar, seems to ball watch at times giving his direct opponent way too much latitude. Something that can be fixed at post game reviews but certainly needs tightening up from here on with the quality of teams we play.

[Tiger Khosh]

Seems like houli was responsible for all of Cripps, Ryan, Rioli and petruccelle. Only way he could have had 6 goals kicked on him......

[Damo]

Seems like houli was responsible for all of Cripps, Ryan, Rioli and petruccelle. Only way he could have had 6 goals kicked on him......

Lol
Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story

[big tone]

Seems like houli was responsible for all of Cripps, Ryan, Rioli and petruccelle. Only way he could have had 6 goals kicked on him......

Read my post again.... I said 5 goals not 6.

Or do you have trouble reading?

Let me ask you something smart guy, how many goals do you think Houli had kicked on him?

I predict you won’t answer and BS on about team defence- let’s see if you are big enough to answer a simple question.... I won’t be holding my breath. 

[Tiger Khosh]

Seems like houli was responsible for all of Cripps, Ryan, Rioli and petruccelle. Only way he could have had 6 goals kicked on him......

Read my post again.... I said 5 goals not 6.

Or do you have trouble reading?

Let me ask you something smart guy, how many goals do you think Houli had kicked on him?

I predict you won’t answer and BS on about team defence- let’s see if you are big enough to answer a simple question.... I won’t be holding my breath. 

It was bad enough when you just handpicked the small that kicked the most goals but now your doing the sum of all them and putting them down to houli more or less.

So there was 7 goals kicked by eagles small forwards. 1 of willie riolis goals was from a bs in the back by caddy. Liam Ryan’s goal was from a big mark taken over vlaus. Then petrucelles goal was a hitout to the back which he took cleanly and goaled from, definitely on poor midfield setup that one, not even sure houli was on the ground at the time but I’m sure if he was within 100m of the ball you would have blamed him. Then the last one is Cripps goal in the first. Bad turnover in the middle, Eagles inside 50, vlaus lets the ball get behind him to an open Kennedy who dishes to Cripps for the goal.

So how many were his fault, riolis goal in the first (although vlaus dropped a pretty straight forward mark which Rioli crumbled and goaled), Cripps 2 goals from the stoppage in the last.

So there you have it 2-3 max. Now is it ideal that he’s let his opponent kick that amount of goals on him? No, but if you actually came in and fairly judged the goals maybe we could have a discussion. But no week after week you predictably jump on this thread or the match day thread and over exaggerate things to fit your narrative. Seriously why arnt you ever doing this on shorts or bakers thread? How about vlaus, but my account he was capable for a similar amount of goals yesterday?

And yeah sure act like I’m the one who goes into hiding. Just go back to last weeks discussion, you came in a few times sprouted some factually incorrect statements which were proven false everytime and eventually had nothing else to say.....

And lastly you keep harping on about Dimmas instructions and role he gives to houli. If he were really responsible for so many goals week after week why does he keep getting picked? Is our premiership coach and match committee a bunch of idiots?

You really need to let this go.

[Andyy]

Their smalls weren't that good, had some lucky and some cheap ones.

Houli more than made amends in the second half. I was thrilled with his response. Needed to lift and he did. Performances and persistence like that win flags!

[big tone]

Seems like houli was responsible for all of Cripps, Ryan, Rioli and petruccelle. Only way he could have had 6 goals kicked on him......

Read my post again.... I said 5 goals not 6.

Or do you have trouble reading?

Let me ask you something smart guy, how many goals do you think Houli had kicked on him?

I predict you won’t answer and BS on about team defence- let’s see if you are big enough to answer a simple question.... I won’t be holding my breath. 

It was bad enough when you just handpicked the small that kicked the most goals but now your doing the sum of all them and putting them down to houli more or less.

So there was 7 goals kicked by eagles small forwards. 1 of willie riolis goals was from a bs in the back by caddy. Liam Ryan’s goal was from a big mark taken over vlaus. Then petrucelles goal was a hitout to the back which he took cleanly and goaled from, definitely on poor midfield setup that one, not even sure houli was on the ground at the time but I’m sure if he was within 100m of the ball you would have blamed him. Then the last one is Cripps goal in the first. Bad turnover in the middle, Eagles inside 50, vlaus lets the ball get behind him to an open Kennedy who dishes to Cripps for the goal.

So how many were his fault, riolis goal in the first (although vlaus dropped a pretty straight forward mark which Rioli crumbled and goaled), Cripps 2 goals from the stoppage in the last.

So there you have it 2-3 max. Now is it ideal that he’s let his opponent kick that amount of goals on him? No, but if you actually came in and fairly judged the goals maybe we could have a discussion. But no week after week you predictably jump on this thread or the match day thread and over exaggerate things to fit your narrative. Seriously why arnt you ever doing this on shorts or bakers thread? How about vlaus, but my account he was capable for a similar amount of goals yesterday?

And yeah sure act like I’m the one who goes into hiding. Just go back to last weeks discussion, you came in a few times sprouted some factually incorrect statements which were proven false everytime and eventually had nothing else to say.....

And lastly you keep harping on about Dimmas instructions and role he gives to houli. If he were really responsible for so many goals week after week why does he keep getting picked? Is our premiership coach and match committee a bunch of idiots?

You really need to let this go.

Well I was right- you did BS on about team defence/blaming others as predicted. Well done.

I’ll go through the replay this week and even though you cannot always tell from the replay who was on the goal kicker, I’ll give it ago. You can certainly tell when you are at the game.
It’s usually a dead give away when the defender goes and stands next to the goal kicker after a goal.

At the end of the day teammates all help defend each other’s opponents and none more than our backs, but you also need to concede if a teammate gives a away a free kick or fumbles or any other of your BS excuses, it’s still goes down as a goal against who was on them. ie Houli
I reckon that’s only fair.
You cannot just count the ones where the defender loses a one on one contest and kicks a goal.

I know there is probably stats done every week on who the goals were kicked on, does anyone know where I could find that stat?... that would end this debate pretty quickly.

Houli does do heaps right and I can see that and have said that numerous times in this thread and think he should be moved to a wing or even onball, but as a defender he is absolutely poo IMO.
 

[Tiger Khosh]

How did I bs about team defending, blaming others? I gave you 2-3 goals, one being debatable given that if vlas takes that mark like you’d expect him too then that goal never happens, in any case unless a defender is positioned goal side at that play don’t think there’s a defender in the game that was stopping Rioli there.

Your the one that stated he had 5 goals kicked on him. So where’s your accurate rebuttal of what happened with the petrucelle goal and Cripps first one? You’d need both of those to get you to the 5 goals. Where was short? Where was baker? How come every goal conceded is on houli?

And give me a break about whoever goes and stands next to the player when the ball is bounced in the middle. We generally play 1 spare but at the centre bounce they’ll be standing next to someone so what’s the go there?

[big tone]

How did I bs about team defending, blaming others? I gave you 2-3 goals, one being debatable given that if vlas takes that mark like you’d expect him too then that goal never happens, in any case unless a defender is positioned goal side at that play don’t think there’s a defender in the game that was stopping Rioli there.

Your the one that stated he had 5 goals kicked on him. So where’s your accurate rebuttal of what happened with the petrucelle goal and Cripps first one? You’d need both of those to get you to the 5 goals. Where was short? Where was baker? How come every goal conceded is on houli?

And give me a break about whoever goes and stands next to the player when the ball is bounced in the middle. We generally play 1 spare but at the centre bounce they’ll be standing next to someone so what’s the go there?

Pretty sure I said I’ll go through the replay this week so I’ll give you some feedback then. But just so I’m clear, the examples you gave in your first post, are they goals that were kicked on Houli but were others fault? and then you said 2 or 3 others?
So are we adding the 2 together?

Again so I’m clear, how many goals do you think we’re kicked by Houli’s direct opponents?
And please keep it to just a number.

On your last paragraph, it’s 6,6,6 now so at centre bounces Houli has an opponent.
Are you now saying he is the spare? So no opponent?

[Tiger Khosh]

I’ll give ya 3 so watch the replay and try to find the other 2. But considering you opened with saying he had 5 goals kicked on him and you watch him closer than most should you really need to watch the replay?

I’m saying that using who is standing next to who when the ball is bounced after a goal is a ridiculous way of pointing out who was manning them up when the goal was kicked.

For example:
- A player may be playing loose in the backline but given the 666 has to be standing next to an opponent when a ball is bounced. That doesn’t mean he was manning him when the goal was kicked.
- A player could literally be sitting on the bench when a goal is kicked and then come onto the field for the bounce and stand next to the goalkicker.

You seem to be living in the past of how footy was played in the 80s. As much as you hate to hear it is very rare that defenders will match up 1 on 1 against opposition forwards, instead using a team system approach to beat them. Where I do agree with you is the 2 goals Cripps kicked in the last qtr were essentially from loose checking from stoppages.

But what you seem to be missing are a couple of fundamental elements of what make us successful:
1. 1on1 defending isn’t the only way to defend the opposition. Forcing turnover and getting intercept possession is key in today’s game and is essentially what we base our whole game around and what we do better than any team in the competition. Houli is ranked 3rd at the club for intercept possessions i.e directly winning the ball back from the opposition. If that’s not defending I don’t know what is.
2. Another key aspect of our game style is taking risks at stoppages and in general play to run forward of the play believing that their teammates will win the ball. This is essentially the Richmond surge im sure you hear the media talk about on a daily basis. This obviously comes with the risk that In the cases where the ball isn’t won, they face a tough task getting back into position.

[eliminator]

Definitely a better game from him. His attack on the football in the last two minutes of the game was critical.

[Fluffy Tiger]

Well arguing about how many goals got kicked on a particular defender is just rediculas now days. The game  has changed and 1 on 1 defence is as a rule not used. Calling it rubbish to mount the team defence argument is not reconsing the changes in the game and living in the past.  I wouldnt be surprised if many goals we infact blamed on players up the ground and not the defenders at all.

Houli is an important part of the team and commenting on his defensive abilities without knowing exactly what he is being asked to do by the coaches just seems pointless. If someone can tell us exactly what he is being asked to do and point out wher he hasn't done that then we might really be able to comment.

[Francois Jackson]

fair to say BT is not having a good period on OER.

To suggest some werent at the ground and were instead arm chair experts is quite funny. I was at the ground and from what i saw it was cripps who was his direct opponent. So what! I see W Rioli kick 2 and then played in a hand in 2 others. Who was his opponent? Who was on Mason Cox in that prelim?

let it go and watch the replay again. 5 goals. LMFAO