The Fighting Tiger Fund - "Giving 110%" [merged]

[Eat_em_Alive]

What's amazing is that this thread was started at 1am and has already had 60 views. There are tigers roaming everywhere!!! 

whoa

Right back at ya.... cha whoa!! 

[the claw]

yep they are doing a fair bit right at last. would like some extra money go into recruiting and list management. matt rendell to go with jackson who imo has only been average. 

How can you say Jackson has "Only been average"??  13 kids of the 22 that played on the weekend Jackson had a hand in recruiting, the other 9 are all that's left from an era of badly handled trades and Bungled draft picks. The Core of this club going forward is based around Jacksons picks and considering most of them are aged 24 and under it would be hard to see our list going backwards from here
If we win a Flag in the next 5 years you will only have Jackson to thank but I supose that still wont be good enough for some

quite easily hes only been average in fact his success rate with 2nd and third round picks is appalling.

the only area that saves him  as far as nd picks go is the 1st rounders its an area even you would get right 90% of the time.

05 - none left only matt white a dud whos a psd pick.
06 - riewoldt the only proven consistent player from that draft. edwards  has been ordinary and should be cut at 26 with his weaknesses that pick is a fail. connors probably gone hardly done a thing  in 6 yrs.
07-  cotchin pick 2 only utter idiots and there werent many had him not at 2 behind kruezer. rance is a decent player and continues to improve he is nowhere near as good as our supporters make him out to be but a pass.
08 - vickery at 8 has not established himself in fact hes been deplorable id go so far as to question if he will make it.  post  well hes in the gun and may even be cut has done nothing to date other than show glimpses.
09 - martin another one even you would have got. there were 4 montys we did the obvious and got one. griffiths at 19  has played one good game in 2 1/2 yrs.  had injury there is no way hes a consistent proven player yet. we took him to fill a forward need on that basis to date this pick is a failure.  so its potential you rate him on.
 astbury a bit like griffiths not done a thing but like hundreds of other kids has shown the odd glimpse  of potential.  had injury and like griffiths to early to call either way.
dea is another is not proven is not doing a lot atm but has potential. webberley probably gone come seasons end.  do we really expect these kids to have made it yet though.
ive said this on numerous posts to rate jackson you should only go up to 08.  2 1/2  yrs is a bit early to be judging his picks.  thats just being fair to jackson and the kids he picked. 7  nd picks in 09 two and a half yrs in you would expect the majority to still be there unless we totally blew it. 5 of 7 are there and 3 maybe 4 look the goods.


wont even go look at 10 and 11 except to say theres likely 3 you can pencil in.

jacksons been there since 05 cameron sinse 07 its been one step forward and one step back with these two they have got just as much wrong as right if not more and it has dramatically slowed our progress.
when i judge jackson i judge him from 05 to 08 there are just 7 players left from those drafts and 4 of them look ordinary atm.

sheesh only 13 of 22 after 7 yrs with very early picks all yrs and we have opnly 13. lol at that rate perhaps we can look forward to gf in 2020.

[the claw]

yep they are doing a fair bit right at last.

I think you should contact the club and let them know this. I'm sure it would be a massive sigh of relief!

lol im berated for being too negative and when you acknowledge they have got a bit right you are berated. ah well theres no pleasing some.

[Loui Tufga]

sheesh only 13 of 22 after 7 yrs with very early picks all yrs and we have opnly 13. lol at that rate perhaps we can look forward to gf in 2020.

lol...You really don't have any idea do you What that show's is our recruiters have done nothing but a great job in that period to get that many players up and running amd says a hell of allot more about how bad our recruiting was prior the 05!
Have guess how many players  Collingwood have playing in there side that have been drafted through that same period of time (2005 to 2011)........3! yes that's right 3 players have made it for them from the last 7 drafts!Gee there recruiters must be poo Geelong anyone??....Try 4 what a crap side they have been!   West Coast..7 and Essendon..10 are both on the rise but there players from that draft period are only now starting to make an impact. Can you see the pattern here? It takes a mixture of maturity and youth and those top teams are running around with  hell of allot more Maturity than we have. Our recruiters have had to come from a hell of a long way back and Jackson has pretty much single handedly got us to where we are now with little or no help from the Drafts before him! He has far from stuffed it!

Also LMAO at your assesment of Rance He would be very close to AA form at the moment but in your eyes is just a plodder who continues to improve   What more would you like him to do!!

[Smokey]

yep they are doing a fair bit right at last. would like some extra money go into recruiting and list management. matt rendell to go with jackson who imo has only been average. 

How can you say Jackson has "Only been average"??  13 kids of the 22 that played on the weekend Jackson had a hand in recruiting, the other 9 are all that's left from an era of badly handled trades and Bungled draft picks. The Core of this club going forward is based around Jacksons picks and considering most of them are aged 24 and under it would be hard to see our list going backwards from here
If we win a Flag in the next 5 years you will only have Jackson to thank but I supose that still wont be good enough for some

quite easily hes only been average in fact his success rate with 2nd and third round picks is appalling.

the only area that saves him  as far as nd picks go is the 1st rounders its an area even you would get right 90% of the time.

05 - none left only matt white a dud whos a psd pick.
06 - riewoldt the only proven consistent player from that draft. edwards  has been ordinary and should be cut at 26 with his weaknesses that pick is a fail. connors probably gone hardly done a thing  in 6 yrs.
07-  cotchin pick 2 only utter idiots and there werent many had him not at 2 behind kruezer. rance is a decent player and continues to improve he is nowhere near as good as our supporters make him out to be but a pass.
08 - vickery at 8 has not established himself in fact hes been deplorable id go so far as to question if he will make it.  post  well hes in the gun and may even be cut has done nothing to date other than show glimpses.
09 - martin another one even you would have got. there were 4 montys we did the obvious and got one. griffiths at 19  has played one good game in 2 1/2 yrs.  had injury there is no way hes a consistent proven player yet. we took him to fill a forward need on that basis to date this pick is a failure.  so its potential you rate him on.
 astbury a bit like griffiths not done a thing but like hundreds of other kids has shown the odd glimpse  of potential.  had injury and like griffiths to early to call either way.
dea is another is not proven is not doing a lot atm but has potential. webberley probably gone come seasons end.  do we really expect these kids to have made it yet though.
ive said this on numerous posts to rate jackson you should only go up to 08.  2 1/2  yrs is a bit early to be judging his picks.  thats just being fair to jackson and the kids he picked. 7  nd picks in 09 two and a half yrs in you would expect the majority to still be there unless we totally blew it. 5 of 7 are there and 3 maybe 4 look the goods.


wont even go look at 10 and 11 except to say theres likely 3 you can pencil in.

jacksons been there since 05 cameron sinse 07 its been one step forward and one step back with these two they have got just as much wrong as right if not more and it has dramatically slowed our progress.
when i judge jackson i judge him from 05 to 08 there are just 7 players left from those drafts and 4 of them look ordinary atm.

sheesh only 13 of 22 after 7 yrs with very early picks all yrs and we have opnly 13. lol at that rate perhaps we can look forward to gf in 2020.

Bloody tough on Jackson including the '05 draft given that he was only assisting the recruiting dept on a part time basis at the time.  Was appointed full time Recruiting Manager in Feb '06 so in all fairness you should remove all reference to '05 from his CV.  And FWIW I think he has been one of the better recruiters in the league since he came on full time.  His ratio of hits and misses is at the top end of his peer group and the quality/number of his successful selections seem to be holding up with each passing year.  If you want to pass judgment on him as substandard or a failure, or even rate his results compared to his peers adversely, then you must acknowledge the culpability of the club in his early years, given the lack of funds and personnel support he had up until 2010.  IMHO he is one of the reasons why this club is showing all the signs of being on the track to sustained success.

[bojangles17]

Another lot of piffle from claw, everyone gets first rounders right hey, yeah right,

Exhibit A tigers pre jackson
Exhibit B some of hawthorns howlers, thorp muston dowler ellis
Exhibit C melbourne, howzabout the two slected before martin...but hey everyone gets them right

[YellowandBlackBlood]

yep they are doing a fair bit right at last. would like some extra money go into recruiting and list management. matt rendell to go with jackson who imo has only been average. 

How can you say Jackson has "Only been average"??  13 kids of the 22 that played on the weekend Jackson had a hand in recruiting, the other 9 are all that's left from an era of badly handled trades and Bungled draft picks. The Core of this club going forward is based around Jacksons picks and considering most of them are aged 24 and under it would be hard to see our list going backwards from here
If we win a Flag in the next 5 years you will only have Jackson to thank but I supose that still wont be good enough for some

quite easily hes only been average in fact his success rate with 2nd and third round picks is appalling.

the only area that saves him  as far as nd picks go is the 1st rounders its an area even you would get right 90% of the time.

05 - none left only matt white a dud whos a psd pick.
06 - riewoldt the only proven consistent player from that draft. edwards  has been ordinary and should be cut at 26 with his weaknesses that pick is a fail. connors probably gone hardly done a thing  in 6 yrs.
07-  cotchin pick 2 only utter idiots and there werent many had him not at 2 behind kruezer. rance is a decent player and continues to improve he is nowhere near as good as our supporters make him out to be but a pass.
08 - vickery at 8 has not established himself in fact hes been deplorable id go so far as to question if he will make it.  post  well hes in the gun and may even be cut has done nothing to date other than show glimpses.
09 - martin another one even you would have got. there were 4 montys we did the obvious and got one. griffiths at 19  has played one good game in 2 1/2 yrs.  had injury there is no way hes a consistent proven player yet. we took him to fill a forward need on that basis to date this pick is a failure.  so its potential you rate him on.
 astbury a bit like griffiths not done a thing but like hundreds of other kids has shown the odd glimpse  of potential.  had injury and like griffiths to early to call either way.
dea is another is not proven is not doing a lot atm but has potential. webberley probably gone come seasons end.  do we really expect these kids to have made it yet though.
ive said this on numerous posts to rate jackson you should only go up to 08.  2 1/2  yrs is a bit early to be judging his picks.  thats just being fair to jackson and the kids he picked. 7  nd picks in 09 two and a half yrs in you would expect the majority to still be there unless we totally blew it. 5 of 7 are there and 3 maybe 4 look the goods.


wont even go look at 10 and 11 except to say theres likely 3 you can pencil in.

jacksons been there since 05 cameron sinse 07 its been one step forward and one step back with these two they have got just as much wrong as right if not more and it has dramatically slowed our progress.
when i judge jackson i judge him from 05 to 08 there are just 7 players left from those drafts and 4 of them look ordinary atm.

sheesh only 13 of 22 after 7 yrs with very early picks all yrs and we have opnly 13. lol at that rate perhaps we can look forward to gf in 2020.

Bloody tough on Jackson including the '05 draft given that he was only assisting the recruiting dept on a part time basis at the time.  Was appointed full time Recruiting Manager in Feb '06 so in all fairness you should remove all reference to '05 from his CV.  And FWIW I think he has been one of the better recruiters in the league since he came on full time.  His ratio of hits and misses is at the top end of his peer group and the quality/number of his successful selections seem to be holding up with each passing year.  If you want to pass judgment on him as substandard or a failure, or even rate his results compared to his peers adversely, then you must acknowledge the culpability of the club in his early years, given the lack of funds and personnel support he had up until 2010.  IMHO he is one of the reasons why this club is showing all the signs of being on the track to sustained success.

Well said!

[RedanTiger]

Bloody tough on Jackson including the '05 draft given that he was only assisting the recruiting dept on a part time basis at the time.  Was appointed full time Recruiting Manager in Feb '06 so in all fairness you should remove all reference to '05 from his CV. 

Heard that excuse a LOT and it still sounds like crap.
He was the Recruiter but shouldn't be judged on his recruiting? 
Especially as a part timer one would think you look at AIS lists OR State Lists OR All Australian lists.
No, you totally overlook AIS members, All Australians and State Captains in Hurn and Swallow and recommend this bloke at pick 8: Jarrod Oakley-Nichols

[Tigeritis™©®]

Bloody tough on Jackson including the '05 draft given that he was only assisting the recruiting dept on a part time basis at the time.  Was appointed full time Recruiting Manager in Feb '06 so in all fairness you should remove all reference to '05 from his CV. 

Heard that excuse a LOT and it still sounds like crap.
He was the Recruiter but shouldn't be judged on his recruiting? 
Especially as a part timer one would think you look at AIS lists OR State Lists OR All Australian lists.
No, you totally overlook AIS members, All Australians and State Captains in Hurn and Swallow and recommend this bloke at pick 8: Jarrod Oakley-Nichols

ha ha. So true. He made a real blunder there. 
And that recommendation coming on the back of seeing a video highlights package and not seeing him actually play a real game of footy.
We really have come a long way considering those days. 

[tony_montana]

Another lot of piffle from claw, everyone gets first rounders right hey, yeah right,

Exhibit A tigers pre jackson
Exhibit B some of hawthorns howlers, thorp muston dowler ellis
Exhibit C melbourne, howzabout the two slected before martin...but hey everyone gets them right

Don't forget more of melbourne - Sylvia, Watta and Morton as well 

Everyone has misses, mainly bc the so called psychological testing isn't good enough to work out which guys have the mentality and that killer instinct to go on with it and which don't, ala tambling, Watts, Morton, ellis. But to a degree that also comes down to development or lack of

[tony_montana]

Bloody tough on Jackson including the '05 draft given that he was only assisting the recruiting dept on a part time basis at the time.  Was appointed full time Recruiting Manager in Feb '06 so in all fairness you should remove all reference to '05 from his CV. 

Heard that excuse a LOT and it still sounds like crap.
He was the Recruiter but shouldn't be judged on his recruiting? 
Especially as a part timer one would think you look at AIS lists OR State Lists OR All Australian lists.
No, you totally overlook AIS members, All Australians and State Captains in Hurn and Swallow and recommend this bloke at pick 8: Jarrod Oakley-Nichols

A was a miller special iv heard, but stand to be corrected

[Smokey]

Bloody tough on Jackson including the '05 draft given that he was only assisting the recruiting dept on a part time basis at the time.  Was appointed full time Recruiting Manager in Feb '06 so in all fairness you should remove all reference to '05 from his CV. 

Heard that excuse a LOT and it still sounds like crap.
He was the Recruiter but shouldn't be judged on his recruiting? 
Especially as a part timer one would think you look at AIS lists OR State Lists OR All Australian lists.
No, you totally overlook AIS members, All Australians and State Captains in Hurn and Swallow and recommend this bloke at pick 8: Jarrod Oakley-Nichols

Crap?  He was a part time recruiter who was also full time Sports Master at Brighton Grammar at the same time.  He was appointed to this part time role in Feb '05 and part of his charter was to oversee 3 administrative and 6 field recruiters, all in part time roles themselves, as well as having an individual responsibility of forward scout.  This was all then managed by Greg Miller in his full time role as Recruiting Manager as well as Director of Football, with significant input (no doubt) from the senior coach Terry Wallace.  All this part time work so the club could compete at the highest level of professional AFL football.  And the failure to identify the best recruits in the 2005 draft was all Jackson's fault?  His jobs as public school house master and AFL talent scout would have demanded high public scrutiny and professional output, and I can't even begin to think how he made that happen at any level, let alone to a standard deemed satisfactory by his peers and employers.  And the club gets it's pick #8 wrong in the National Draft and you find Jackson wholly and totally to blame?  Just as well for our club that you're not doing the hiring and firing I think.

[WilliamPowell]

Bloody tough on Jackson including the '05 draft given that he was only assisting the recruiting dept on a part time basis at the time.  Was appointed full time Recruiting Manager in Feb '06 so in all fairness you should remove all reference to '05 from his CV. 

Heard that excuse a LOT and it still sounds like crap.
He was the Recruiter but shouldn't be judged on his recruiting? 
Especially as a part timer one would think you look at AIS lists OR State Lists OR All Australian lists.
No, you totally overlook AIS members, All Australians and State Captains in Hurn and Swallow and recommend this bloke at pick 8: Jarrod Oakley-Nichols

A was a miller special iv heard, but stand to be corrected

No need to stand you are 100% correct - JON was a Greg Miller selection, not a Jackson one 

But hey let's not give the Frank Jackson any credit for any of the selections he's made over the journey let's just whack him for the sake of it because it's more fun


NB: FWIW I reckon Frank and his team are doing a good job   

[YellowandBlackBlood]

Francis Jackson has also learnt the caper as time has gone on.  No different to any other job.  It is rare that someone comes in from day 1 and stars unless he was a star elsewhere.

Just like our players, coaches, administrators and the like are learning form their mistakes, so is Francis.  And isn't that all we can expect?

You're doing a great job mate.  Keep it up!

[the claw]

yep they are doing a fair bit right at last. would like some extra money go into recruiting and list management. matt rendell to go with jackson who imo has only been average. 

How can you say Jackson has "Only been average"??  13 kids of the 22 that played on the weekend Jackson had a hand in recruiting, the other 9 are all that's left from an era of badly handled trades and Bungled draft picks. The Core of this club going forward is based around Jacksons picks and considering most of them are aged 24 and under it would be hard to see our list going backwards from here
If we win a Flag in the next 5 years you will only have Jackson to thank but I supose that still wont be good enough for some

quite easily hes only been average in fact his success rate with 2nd and third round picks is appalling.

the only area that saves him  as far as nd picks go is the 1st rounders its an area even you would get right 90% of the time.

05 - none left only matt white a dud whos a psd pick.
06 - riewoldt the only proven consistent player from that draft. edwards  has been ordinary and should be cut at 26 with his weaknesses that pick is a fail. connors probably gone hardly done a thing  in 6 yrs.
07-  cotchin pick 2 only utter idiots and there werent many had him not at 2 behind kruezer. rance is a decent player and continues to improve he is nowhere near as good as our supporters make him out to be but a pass.
08 - vickery at 8 has not established himself in fact hes been deplorable id go so far as to question if he will make it.  post  well hes in the gun and may even be cut has done nothing to date other than show glimpses.
09 - martin another one even you would have got. there were 4 montys we did the obvious and got one. griffiths at 19  has played one good game in 2 1/2 yrs.  had injury there is no way hes a consistent proven player yet. we took him to fill a forward need on that basis to date this pick is a failure.  so its potential you rate him on.
 astbury a bit like griffiths not done a thing but like hundreds of other kids has shown the odd glimpse  of potential.  had injury and like griffiths to early to call either way.
dea is another is not proven is not doing a lot atm but has potential. webberley probably gone come seasons end.  do we really expect these kids to have made it yet though.
ive said this on numerous posts to rate jackson you should only go up to 08.  2 1/2  yrs is a bit early to be judging his picks.  thats just being fair to jackson and the kids he picked. 7  nd picks in 09 two and a half yrs in you would expect the majority to still be there unless we totally blew it. 5 of 7 are there and 3 maybe 4 look the goods.


wont even go look at 10 and 11 except to say theres likely 3 you can pencil in.

jacksons been there since 05 cameron sinse 07 its been one step forward and one step back with these two they have got just as much wrong as right if not more and it has dramatically slowed our progress.
when i judge jackson i judge him from 05 to 08 there are just 7 players left from those drafts and 4 of them look ordinary atm.

sheesh only 13 of 22 after 7 yrs with very early picks all yrs and we have opnly 13. lol at that rate perhaps we can look forward to gf in 2020.

Bloody tough on Jackson including the '05 draft given that he was only assisting the recruiting dept on a part time basis at the time.  Was appointed full time Recruiting Manager in Feb '06 so in all fairness you should remove all reference to '05 from his CV.  And FWIW I think he has been one of the better recruiters in the league since he came on full time.  His ratio of hits and misses is at the top end of his peer group and the quality/number of his successful selections seem to be holding up with each passing year.  If you want to pass judgment on him as substandard or a failure, or even rate his results compared to his peers adversely, then you must acknowledge the culpability of the club in his early years, given the lack of funds and personnel support he had up until 2010.  IMHO he is one of the reasons why this club is showing all the signs of being on the track to sustained success.

he was bought in in 05 to assist with recruiting even though he was only doing part time for the rfc.
he had just as much input into 05 as anyone and we went bust. lol he didnt do too well lets not include that one.

from 05 to 08 which is all we should be judging him on atm screams mediocrity. craig camerons handling of the list is worse. but go ahead revisionism has always been  alive and well at richmond.

his first rnd picks are
05 - jon fail and this was his pick. i know for a fact greg miller wanted varcoe at 8 so theres no blaming him.
06 - riewoldt -pass
07 - cotchin cmon there was only two choices at one and two no one else got close to these two.
08 - vickery well imo i reckon he will be a bust.
09 - martin ffs syd offered up 6 and 14 to get a crack at him your granny would have selected him.
10 - conca the question still has not been answered did he overlook the obvious  so even here with what seems a decent pick theres criticism. time will tell eh.
11 - ellis again we copped criticism for this pick  me i think it will be a decent first round pick.

i would say when you finish 14, 13, 16, 12, 9, 16, 9, 15, 15, 12 over the last 10 yrs the only conclusion you can come up with is recruiting has been poor.

jacksons been there sinse 05 shouldnt we be a top 4 side by now.

lets see since 08 all teams. remember the majority have not had the regular really  early picks like us.also only go back to 08 because so many only really rate him from this point on.
so if jackson has done well since 08 how have the other teams fared.
adelaide
 08 davis pick 10, 09 talia pick 13, 2010 smith pick 14, 2011 traded pick 10 for crouch
brisbane
08 rich pick 7, 09  traded 12 for fev lol. 2010 polec pick 5, 2011 longer pick 8, docherty pick 12.
carlton
08 yarran pick 6, 09 lucas pick 12, 2010 watson pick 18, 2011 bootsma pick22.
coll
08 sidebottom pick 11, 09 traded pick 14 for jolly, 2010 pick 25 for ceglar and krakouer. 2011 traded 25 for clarke and elliot.
essendon
08 hurley pick5, 09 melksham pick 10, 2010 heppell pick 8, 2011 kavanagh pick 19.
fremantle
08 hill pick 3, 09 morabito pick4, 2010 pick 20 pitt, 2011 piock 16 sheridan.
geelong
08 mitch brown pick 15, 09 menzel pick 17, 2010 smedts pick 15, 2011 i think they traded pick 26 for poicks 32 and 34.
hawthorn
08 schoenmakers  pick 16, 09 traded picks 9 and 16 for burgoyne, 2010 smith pick 19, 2011 pick 24 for gunston.
melbourne
08 watts pick 1, blease pick 17.09 scully pick1, trengove pick 2, gysberts pick 11,  2010 cook pick 12, 2011 traded pick 12 for clarke.
north
08 ziebel pick 9, 09 cunnington pick 5, 2010 atley pick 17, 2011 mckenzie pick 18.
port
08 hartlett pick 4. 09 butcher pick 8, 2010 jacobs pick 16, 2011 wingard pick 6.
richmond
08 vickery pick 8, 09 martin pick 3, 2010 conca pick 6, 2011 pick 15 ellis.
stkilda
08 lynch pick 13, 09 traded pick 16 for nathan lovett. 2010 cripps pick 24, 2011 traded pick 20 for pick 25 and milera and saad.
sydney
08 johnson pick 12, 09 rohan pick 6 jetta pick 14. 2010 lamb pick 24, 2011 mitchell pick 21.
wce
08 naitanui pick 2. 09 shepperd pick 7, 2010 pick 4 gaff, 2011 newman pick 23.
footscray
08 cordy pick 14, 09 howard pick 15, 2010 wallis pick 22, 2011 smith pick 17.

i wonder how many actual misses are in that lot has jackson stood out with first rounders or just done whats expected with first rounders and top 10 picks. id say the latter.
anyway im wasting my time because you can see from a mile off those who defend at all costs everything richmond will not concede a thing. i do think most 1st rnd picks are as ood as a success and i do expect to find a good player with those picks im bloody sure all clubs do as well.
so jacksons got 1st rnd picks right as he should but that is not what was being argued now was it.
at the end of the day you will defend his record becausse hes at richmond me i will be critical because i think over all hes been pretty average.

let me iriterate greg millers choice on draft day 2005 was travis varcoe we went with jon on jacksons recommmedation.