Australian Politics thread [merged]

[tiger101]

Can someone confirm what i read that Australia contributes about only 1.8% of emissions worldwide yet we are the first country to go down this carbon tax path.

India and China will be increasing there output over next decade more then our annual output. So to Tax it is just a dumb idea that will not change the future climate what so ever.

[mightytiges]

A global ETS is coming.

Please show links and proof that India and China have said they will sign a global ETS agreement.

I didn't state a definite timeframe however as nations and economic blocks introduce their own ETS or some carbon price mechanism, global market forces will demand a global ETS to maximise the available carbon permits and minimise carbon permit prices. The stock market evolves rather than being some instant construct; the world didn't wait until there was an international agreement on every existing tradable commodity and investment security before starting to trade them. It's simply a market opens up somewhere and given the globalisation of the world economy everyone else who wants to participate joins in. Europe has had a ETS for the past six years which we can learn the pros and cons from and now others elsewhere are developing their own carbon pricing scheme including us, China and India.

China to launch energy cap-and-trade trials in green push
India to unveil emissions trading scheme on February 1

As of now there exists an ETS in 31 countries so so much for us being the only country planning to price carbon as Abbott claims.

[Penelope]

Trust you to mess up arguments with facts MT.

Homer would be very disappointed with you.

[tiger101]

MT when people start losing there jobs and cant afford to put food on there table at home. You go and tell them that they needed to lose there job to cut our 1.8% of the global carbon output while people in China can pick up there work and pollute all they like.

[dizza]

not a lot wrong with an ETS so long as it's done right, it's the Carbon Tax in the meantime that is the joke. two very different things.

[mightytiges]

MT when people start losing there jobs and cant afford to put food on there table at home. You go and tell them that they needed to lose there job to cut our 1.8% of the global carbon output while people in China can pick up there work and pollute all they like.

Guilt trips don't work. People were saying the same thing in the 80s when opposed to Hawke & Keating opening up the economy and reduced tarriffs exposing old industries highly dependent on protectionism; now 25 years later it's classed as successful economic reforms that have benefited Australia overall to this day. The world changes over time to meet the needs and challenges of the day and as a result so does industry and technologies. Old ones die or at least shrink replaced by new/updated ones producing new entrepreneurial opportunites and new jobs. That's the way of the world.

I should add both sides of Australian politics have committed to at least a 5% reduction below year 2000 emission levels by 2020 whatever the rest of the world does. If we do nothing we are on track of being +24% above 2000 levels. So something has to give whoever wins the next election. That's the argued flaw in the Coalition's "direct action" plan where it will still leave us at +17% above 2000 levels and as a result we as a country and as taxpayers will need to pay an additional $20 billion in international permits by 2020 on top of the cost of the "direct action" policy to satisfy the 5% reduction target. There's no avoiding a price being paid in relation to our dependence on fossil fuels. I'd rather support a free market scheme such as a ETS that can eventually easily merge with a global ETS than some ad hoc policy developed on the run by someone who politically needs to pretend he'll do something about CO2 emissions despite claiming the science is all "crap".

[tiger101]

your right both sides have agreed to cut emissions. Why group is doing this by working with business and direct investment in cleaner ways while the other is doing it by just pushing the carbon output offshore and costing jobs.
It's not a guilt trip its just saying how real these job loses will happen. I bet this won't even cut much into emissions as big business will just push prices onto the consumer and the government is giving the consumer money to pay for the price rises. So lets call it what it is a redistribution tax. Labor take there policy ideas straight out of Karl Marx book of Marxism.

[mightytiges]

your right both sides have agreed to cut emissions. Why group is doing this by working with business and direct investment in cleaner ways while the other is doing it by just pushing the carbon output offshore and costing jobs.
It's not a guilt trip its just saying how real these job loses will happen. I bet this won't even cut much into emissions as big business will just push prices onto the consumer and the government is giving the consumer money to pay for the price rises. So lets call it what it is a redistribution tax. Labor take there policy ideas straight out of Karl Marx book of Marxism.

Damn you comrade Malcolm Turnball you bloody ETS supporting commie  . I better check if he's hiding under my bed  .

No the Coalition plan is going to directly cost taxpayers an extra $20 billion by 2020 (that's around $720 extra a year per taxpayer compared to $300 under a free-market ETS) on top of the cost of their 'direct action' and for that we'll still be producing +17% above 2020 emissions. There's no financial cost or reason for companies that produce high emissions of CO2 to change any their production behaviours by 2020 as all the cost for the nation's emissions will be all directly borne by the taxpayer - even those who are or will be significantly using renewable technology for their energy needs.  I thought Phoney Tony said he's against a great big new tax  and the Libs supported free-market user-pay policies  . All we'll be doing as a nation is forking out  tens of billions of dollars OS buying international permits which will continually increase in cost to meet our emission obligations and protect old industries while the rest of the world moves to a ETS and gets the jump on developing renewable energies and technologies which lead to new industries and new jobs for the future (so much for not pushing jobs OS). Technologies change to meet the demands and circumstances of the times. Stay still and you get left behind; adapt and you find new opportunities. We're not still riding around in a horse and cart because we're afraid coachmen will be out of a job if we switched to driving our own motor cars or refusing to use computers to send emails because it puts postmen out of a job. That's protectionist speak. The make-up of the Australian economy 30-40 years ago was different to what it is now and it will again be different in 30-40 years time. That's just reality as we progress and evolve.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Is carbon dioxide a pollution?  We should stop Julia speaking because it's spewing out of her mouth.

What's funny is the tears emmitted during her "I'm in America" speach. How can anyone not see this charlatan for what she really is???
Why was she crying?? Was she remembering her uni days when she was anti-American and was she crying at how low she was stooping?? Or was she crying because she was recalling how beautiful Bono said the same thing at a U2 concert.?????

Am i the only one on this forum that can see her disingenuous rhetoric for what it is?

[10 FLAGS]

her speech in america was disgraceful, just a shameful suck job. what a disgrace.

[1965]

Is carbon dioxide a pollution?  We should stop Julia speaking because it's spewing out of her mouth.

What's funny is the tears emmitted during her "I'm in America" speach. How can anyone not see this charlatan for what she really is???
Why was she crying?? Was she remembering her uni days when she was anti-American and was she crying at how low she was stooping?? Or was she crying because she was recalling how beautiful Bono said the same thing at a U2 concert.?????

Am i the only one on this forum that can see her disingenuous rhetoric for what it is?

And Tony Abbott is any better?

FFS they are politicians.

What do you really expect from them?

 

[Tigeritis™©®]

Is carbon dioxide a pollution?  We should stop Julia speaking because it's spewing out of her mouth.

What's funny is the tears emmitted during her "I'm in America" speach. How can anyone not see this charlatan for what she really is???
Why was she crying?? Was she remembering her uni days when she was anti-American and was she crying at how low she was stooping?? Or was she crying because she was recalling how beautiful Bono said the same thing at a U2 concert.?????

Am i the only one on this forum that can see her disingenuous rhetoric for what it is?

And Tony Abbott is any better?

FFS they are politicians.

What do you really expect from them?

 

the truth. Ok they are politicians.
Tony Abbott isn't the same as Julia Gillard.
Julia lies to us and won't admit the lie. She tells us there is a real Julia and a not so real one. She cries but it's hard to believe it's sincere.
For all his annoying mannerisms and fasion sense it's Tony Abbotts honesty that gets him into trouble. When has he never admitted he told a lie?
If someone has considered an issue and changed there mind and admitted it then fair enough but don't take us for fools and admit you made a mistake or lied to us. We are all human after all.  

[tiger101]

the truth. Ok they are politicians.
Tony Abbott isn't the same as Julia Gillard.
Julia lies to us and won't admit the lie. She tells us there is a real Julia and a not so real one. She cries but it's hard to believe it's sincere.
For all his annoying mannerisms and fasion sense it's Tony Abbotts honesty that gets him into trouble. When has he never admitted he told a lie?
If someone has considered an issue and changed there mind and admitted it then fair enough but don't take us for fools and admit you made a mistake or lied to us. We are all human after all.  

Don't forget Julia walks like a duck with a stick stuck up her arse. She's an embarrassment

[1965]

the truth. Ok they are politicians.
Tony Abbott isn't the same as Julia Gillard.
Julia lies to us and won't admit the lie. She tells us there is a real Julia and a not so real one. She cries but it's hard to believe it's sincere.
For all his annoying mannerisms and fasion sense it's Tony Abbotts honesty that gets him into trouble. When has he never admitted he told a lie?
If someone has considered an issue and changed there mind and admitted it then fair enough but don't take us for fools and admit you made a mistake or lied to us. We are all human after all.  

Don't forget Julia walks like a duck with a stick stuck up her behind. She's an embarrassment

We have had a few "embarrassing" PMs over the years.

Big eared Billy McMahon

Malcolm Fraser who once defined poor as a family who only had one car.

The ocker Bob Hawke.

and the lst go on...

[Hellenic Tiger]

the truth. Ok they are politicians.
Tony Abbott isn't the same as Julia Gillard.
Julia lies to us and won't admit the lie. She tells us there is a real Julia and a not so real one. She cries but it's hard to believe it's sincere.
For all his annoying mannerisms and fasion sense it's Tony Abbotts honesty that gets him into trouble. When has he never admitted he told a lie?
If someone has considered an issue and changed there mind and admitted it then fair enough but don't take us for fools and admit you made a mistake or lied to us. We are all human after all.  

Don't forget Julia walks like a duck with a stick stuck up her behind. She's an embarrassment

We have had a few "embarrassing" PMs over the years.

Big eared Billy McMahon

Malcolm Fraser who once defined poor as a family who only had one car.

The ocker Bob Hawke.

and the lst go on...

But some of the opposition leaders have left alot to be desired also.

Mark "Whopper at Hungry Jacks" and "60 minutes" Latham.

Alexander "The Things That Batter" Downer.

John "I challenge the PM to......" Hewson

and how about Tony right now.