Author Topic: Australian Politics thread [merged]  (Read 991047 times)

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #390 on: July 19, 2011, 08:20:24 PM »
 :banghead :banghead  :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

it's ridiculous! 
We will be paying India for carbon credits for emitting the exact same carbon dioxide from the coal that we export to them.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE76B1XI20110712?irpc=932

Why is India allowed to gain credits for using the exact same coal? 
The club that keeps giving.

Offline tiga

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #391 on: July 19, 2011, 08:54:39 PM »
:banghead :banghead  :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

it's ridiculous! 
We will be paying India for carbon credits for emitting the exact same carbon dioxide from the coal that we export to them.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE76B1XI20110712?irpc=932

Why is India allowed to gain credits for using the exact same coal? 

Mr T...........



Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #392 on: July 19, 2011, 09:00:36 PM »
Before I give my views on the various topics as promised (sorry it's taken so long - been a chaotic week & a bit) I need to make a couple of points that should give some clarity as to my views.

Firstly, one of the very simple philosophies I have is that in life is no-one deserves a free ride in that we all have to pay our way in life.

I was bought up on this by Ma Powell who was the hardest working person I have ever known. She was a woman who was widowed young and had to raise a 2 children under the age of 10. She gave up running our family business when my Father passed away because she believed her most important role she had was looking after her kids not being away from us. And I will always be eternally grateful that she made that choice.    

I’ve mentioned this before and that is I was bought up to believe that if you cannot afford something; anything then you go without it. Some call it hard I call it reality

Again this lesson was something that Ma Powell taught us and I learnt what it meant very early on when all my friends were getting new clothes every week and we were wearing “hand me downs”.

I have also said previously that I reckon we are turning into a nation of whingers & sooks with so many people believing that they are owed something or entitled to handouts from governments.  

If you refer to this thread : http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=13062.msg234889#msg234889

You will see I said this:

" “Entitled to"   perhaps that is in part what's wrong with us these days, we think life (read the govt) "owes" us something maybe there are far too many handouts being given out

I sometimes wonder what did families do before family allowances, baby bonuses etc? From what I can gather they survived. My parents certainly did and my Mother certainly did while raising 2 kids on a widows pension (less than $500  a fortnight) and a very small allowance for us kids coupled with an incredibly tiny income she was allowed to earn (She cleaned houses for $25 a house) to keep her pension. It certainly wasn’t the handouts of today but we survived went without a helluva lot (no colour TV until late 1980 and then it was just a portable one because it was all we could afford) though in all honesty but I wouldn’t change a thing because it is part of who I am today.

Which brings me back to topic of the carbon tax and all its appendages.  ;D

I don’t expect people to agree with me but I was asked for my views and I am happy to oblige

Carbon Tax: As person who supported an ETS it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to oppose a price on carbon. However I can understand why people are against it. Although the constant “flip flopping” of the reason’s why people are against I find myself having a chuckle about (and I am not talking about people here). There have been some strange conversations around the coffee machine at work I can tell you. Personally I have no problems with it being introduced as long as those it is supposedly targeting cop their full whack. As said straight up as a person who fully supported an ETS I would be a complete hypocrite to say no to a price on carbon. I still believe to this day Rudd’s failure on the ETS was what cost him his job

The compensation package: the compensation package has no effect on me as I earn too much and we don’t have kids. My biggest gripe with it is my serial gripe regarding these things and that is doesn’t do enough for pensioners. While every attempt has been made to soften the burden for families by yet again increasing what they believe they are “entitled” to I cannot say the same thing for pensioners. For people who have worked all their lives, paid their way by paying their taxes I reckon we treat our pensioners abysmally and I direct that all govts of all political orientation.

The best part of the compensation package is the significant lifting of the tax-free threshold. That is what I view as a major tax reform. It’s about time it happened and I applaud this govt for having the courage to do it as it is long overdue. Disappointing it took the introduction of a new tax for to happen but a positive step in tax reform none the less. A massive tick for this part of the compo package from me.

TBBH if people are smart they can be better off under this scheme. How I hear you ask? By attempting something really novel … it’s called by living within their means  ;D. And before people start saying to me “it’s easy for you’ you don’t have kids” got to say for me that’s a cop out. We might not have kids but we still eat, we still use electricity, we still use gas, drive cars, we have a mortgage to pay… we have to deal with all the things other families do we just make sure we do it all within our means. We want something we save for it…. It aint that hard

How it effects me and my family? As I said earlier because of what we earn we are likely to be worse off. So be it I just see it as another thing that I have to pay for. Another case of me paying my way in life.

Climate change in general? I believe in climate change. I believe it is real. The scientific evidence is there and from everything I’ve been able to research I’ve come to the conclusion it is real and something needs to be done not for me but for the future. I find it amusing that people say we shouldn’t have a price on carbon because other countries who emit more pollutants than Australia aren’t doing anything, so therefore we shouldn’t do anything in other words we should follow their path.

If we want to use that logic perhaps we should not have apologised to the “stolen Generation” because China wont recognise Tibet? Maybe we should follow the USA lead and start drilling in Kakadu because the USA is drilling for oil in the Alaskan wilderness? This isn’t about what others are doing it is about what we need to do for our future, AUstralia's future.  

The govt? I have to say I find it hilarious this whole debate about the current Fed govt we have. This constant complaint that people didn’t vote for what we have. Got a newsflash for everyone, we actually did! We as voters did not give one party a clear majority this means under our constitution we have what we actually voted for. We don’t have to like it but it is the way our democracy works. Secondly, I find it staggering that people seem shocked that the Labor Party did deals with people to form govt. Newsflash - Tony Abbott and his party offered deals as well but for reason that only the independents can explain they took the Gillard deal over Abbott’s. As I've said before are people that naive to think that if Lib/Nats were in govt they wouldn't have to do deals with the Greens, independents as well?

Do I think they are doing a good job? On somethings I would say YEP on other things I reckon NOPE but that is the nature of being in minority govt. Unlike so many I applaud them for introducing means testing people who receive govt payments - should happened years ago, for far too long people have ripped the system off which has meant people who truly need assistance have received less. A big NOPE is the this ad campaign for the this tax - hate seeing govts (again doesnt matter which party - Howard did it with work choices) waste money on pointless advertising

The PM? Yep she lied about the carbon tax but she isn’t the first pollie to lie and she wont be the last (Howard anyone).  Even honest Abbott has lied and broken election promises and he even admits it:

"Well, Laurie, when I made that statement, in the election campaign, I had not the slightest inkling that there would ever be any intention to change this. But obviously when circumstances change, governments do change their opinions, and that is actually the responsible course of action."

http://sgp1.paddington.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/political_transcripts/article_1761.asp?s=1

So it’s OK for others to break an election promises but not the current PM? Can anyone explain to me the difference this time? A broken promise is a broken promise no matter which side of politics break the promise


The oppositions response to it? Has there actually been one?  ;D Apart from their normal negativity and their promise that they will remove the tax if they get elected and that they will plant some more trees they haven’t offered much at all.

The burning question for me is seeing they have said (promised) they are going to turf the tax and everything else that the govt brings with it what are they going to do about the extra benefits that people are going to receive and more importantly the changes to the tax free threshold limit? Are they going to keep their promise on that and take it all away from people?

And if they do are people going to be sooking about a govt taking away their entitlements?  ;)

Bottom line re the Carbon Tax is I will most likely worse off.

But as I said I was bought up to believe that we all must pay our way, work hard, pay taxes and this is just something else I have to pay

Thems the breaks

Ready for the whacks   ;D :thumbsup
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 03:21:44 PM by WilliamPowell »
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Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #393 on: July 19, 2011, 09:05:59 PM »
My position is this; I don't like ANY tax. I didn't want the GST. I don't want a TAX on carbon dioxide! I think it's crap and just an excuse for more money. 


I don't think anyone actually likes taxes but we have to have them

Serious question if they got rid various taxes would you be prepared to give up (or give back) all the govt benefits/allowances that you (I am assuming you have kids) currently get?

Taxes go, benefits go, first home buyers grants go

Prepared to give all those things up?
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #394 on: July 19, 2011, 10:25:58 PM »
My position is this; I don't like ANY tax. I didn't want the GST. I don't want a TAX on carbon dioxide! I think it's crap and just an excuse for more money. 


I don't think anyone actually likes taxes but we have to have them

Serious question if they got rid various taxes would you be prepared to give up (or give back) all the govt benefits/allowances that you (I am assuming you have kids) currently get?

Taxes go, benefits go, first home buyers grants go

Prepared to give all those things up?

Not to mention Education and Health.

 :thumbsup

1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #395 on: July 22, 2011, 08:04:00 AM »

"Former Liberal leader Malcolm Turnbull has urged his party to stop listening to climate change deniers, calling on members to defend the science of climate change and pledge to reduce Australia's emissions."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-22/turnbull-climate-speech/2805536

The word I here is that he will cross the floor rather than allow Tony Abbott to become Prime Minister.
He is apparently not alone within the Liberal party with his disatisfaction with Tony A.

 :thumbsup

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #396 on: July 22, 2011, 10:14:04 AM »
doesnt matter anyway eventually there'll be an election and the Australian public are waiting with baseball bats to deal with the ALP for there complete dishonesty. Every dog has its day and Labor is having it now. Enjoy whilst you can because after the next election you wont be seeing a Labor Government here for the next 10 to 15 years atleast.

Offline tiga

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #397 on: July 22, 2011, 10:17:05 AM »

"Former Liberal leader Malcolm Turnbull has urged his party to stop listening to climate change deniers, calling on members to defend the science of climate change and pledge to reduce Australia's emissions."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-22/turnbull-climate-speech/2805536

The word I here is that he will cross the floor rather than allow Tony Abbott to become Prime Minister.
He is apparently not alone within the Liberal party with his disatisfaction with Tony A.

 :thumbsup

Ummmm nobody is denying that the climate changes. The climate has been changing since the earth's creation. The primary objection is a pointless TAX on Carbon. Why is it that supporters of the current government rubbish Turnbull when he speaks negatively about the NBN which is actually in his portfolio and something he does know a bit about from his time with OzEmail, yet when he speaks about something you support, he becomes a font of knowledge and a voice of reason??  :banghead

Offline tiga

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #398 on: July 22, 2011, 10:18:57 AM »
doesnt matter anyway eventually there'll be an election and the Australian public are waiting with baseball bats to deal with the ALP for there complete dishonesty. Every dog has its day and Labor is having it now. Enjoy whilst you can because after the next election you wont be seeing a Labor Government here for the next 10 to 15 years atleast.
Hear, here flags!  :clapping

1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #399 on: July 22, 2011, 10:23:16 AM »

Ummmm nobody is denying that the climate changes. The climate has been changing since the earth's creation. The primary objection is a pointless TAX on Carbon. Why is it that supporters of the current government rubbish Turnbull when he speaks negatively about the NBN which is actually in his portfolio and something he does know a bit about from his time with OzEmail, yet when he speaks about something you support, he becomes a font of knowledge and a voice of reason??  :banghead


You have missed the point completely.

IDGAF about Turbull's opinion. The anti-Abbott forces within the Liberal party are starting to gather strength.

Tell me honestly do you like Abbott's constant negativity and three word electioneering two years out from an election.

 :thumbsup

Offline tiga

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #400 on: July 24, 2011, 02:07:14 AM »

Ummmm nobody is denying that the climate changes. The climate has been changing since the earth's creation. The primary objection is a pointless TAX on Carbon. Why is it that supporters of the current government rubbish Turnbull when he speaks negatively about the NBN which is actually in his portfolio and something he does know a bit about from his time with OzEmail, yet when he speaks about something you support, he becomes a font of knowledge and a voice of reason??  :banghead


You have missed the point completely.

IDGAF about Turbull's opinion. The anti-Abbott forces within the Liberal party are starting to gather strength.

Tell me honestly do you like Abbott's constant negativity and three word electioneering two years out from an election.

 :thumbsup

Why should he provide anything more at this stage of a Labor term? Look at the opinion polls...They are the only things that matter and he is winning them. If you think he is doing a crap job then its a sad indictment on the current Labor Government and clearly shows just how incompetent and unpopular they are if someone who you obviously believe is an incapable leader is easily exposing them for what they really are.
As far as Turnbull goes, you obviously think enough of him to trundle out another of your biased little ABC snippets as some sort of proof that things are shaky in the Liberal ranks.
I have to call pot, kettle, black on this one anyway as I'm dying to hear who you think will be our 3rd Labor Prime Minister in this current term?  ::) :rollin How many Liberal leaders have we had in this current term???  8)

1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #401 on: July 24, 2011, 07:36:42 AM »

Ummmm nobody is denying that the climate changes. The climate has been changing since the earth's creation. The primary objection is a pointless TAX on Carbon. Why is it that supporters of the current government rubbish Turnbull when he speaks negatively about the NBN which is actually in his portfolio and something he does know a bit about from his time with OzEmail, yet when he speaks about something you support, he becomes a font of knowledge and a voice of reason??  :banghead


You have missed the point completely.

IDGAF about Turbull's opinion. The anti-Abbott forces within the Liberal party are starting to gather strength.

Tell me honestly do you like Abbott's constant negativity and three word electioneering two years out from an election.

 :thumbsup

Why should he provide anything more at this stage of a Labor term? Look at the opinion polls...They are the only things that matter and he is winning them. If you think he is doing a crap job then its a sad indictment on the current Labor Government and clearly shows just how incompetent and unpopular they are if someone who you obviously believe is an incapable leader is easily exposing them for what they really are.
As far as Turnbull goes, you obviously think enough of him to trundle out another of your biased little ABC snippets as some sort of proof that things are shaky in the Liberal ranks.
I have to call pot, kettle, black on this one anyway as I'm dying to hear who you think will be our 3rd Labor Prime Minister in this current term?  ::) :rollin How many Liberal leaders have we had in this current term???  8)

Labor is tied to Gillard as the Independents have said they will cross the floor if there is another leadership change within the life of this parliment. FACT.

Libs are way in front of Labor in the polls because of the scare campaign and lies being told by Abbott. FACT

Wake up and smell the coffee.

 :lol

Offline Penelope

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #402 on: July 24, 2011, 08:48:49 AM »
Quote
Why should he provide anything more at this stage of a Labor term?

Umm, perhaps because is supposed to be an alterbative prime minister, a leader of a nation. what sort of a leader sits by just waiting for the their opponent to fall over?

Quote
Look at the opinion polls...They are the only things that matter and he is winning them
.

lets just treat it all as one big poularity contest shall we? dont worry about providing strong leadership with solid policies on how they will govern the country.

no wonder the politicians treat the general public as fools and take them for granted.

we get the politicians we deserve



“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #403 on: July 24, 2011, 08:52:11 AM »


we get the politicians we deserve



Sad but true.

 :bow

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #404 on: July 24, 2011, 08:53:30 PM »
My position is this; I don't like ANY tax. I didn't want the GST. I don't want a TAX on carbon dioxide! I think it's crap and just an excuse for more money. 


I don't think anyone actually likes taxes but we have to have them

Serious question if they got rid various taxes would you be prepared to give up (or give back) all the govt benefits/allowances that you (I am assuming you have kids) currently get?

Taxes go, benefits go, first home buyers grants go

Prepared to give all those things up?
I understand taxes WP I just dont like new taxes that are based around deception.
The club that keeps giving.