Australian Politics thread [merged]

[1965]

Not to mention record low taxes collected (as a % of GDP)

[1965]

and to back up the low debt claim.

[1965]

PS Gotta love a good graph 

[mightytiges]

Got to love the neanderthal in Abbott coming out when his lines aren't scripted  .

''If we want women of that calibre [those that go to university/earn $150k] to have families, and we should, well we have to give them a fair dinkum chance to do so. That is what this scheme of paid parental leave is all about.''

So his PPL scheme is about creating a master race with taxpayers money  . Sorry ladies who don't fit that category. You're not a "woman of calibre" in Tony's eyes  .


Seriously it a disgrace that this PPL scheme was even considered let alone made into a policy. More bloody welfare for those that don't need it .

Gotta love the pulling one line from a full quote to make the context you want something to be heard in.

The full text doesn't change anything I said so it's disingenuous to claim otherwise.

    [these women are] “in the prime of life and they should be able not just to have kids, but to have careers”.

    “We do not educate women to higher degree level to deny them a career,” he said.

    “If we want women of that calibre to have families, and we should, well we have to give them a fair dinkum chance to do so. That is what this scheme of paid parental leave is all about.”

Hey Tony, we don't pay taxes either to hand out (more) welfare to people on up to $150k  .

I get sick of this "I want it all and I want it now" attitude these days (from both sexes) and the expectation that the Government (us taxpayers) should pay for it. I remember this dill (a male in his late 20s/early 30s) in the Herald-Sun early last year complaining that it was hard living even on $150k a year now (he was married with one kid). When you read through the article he had a $800k mortgage  . Now why (unless you could afford it easily) would you go out and buy a first property pushing up towards the $800-900k mark! No one forced him to. Maybe I'm old fashioned Smokey but parents of previous generations would be sitting on boxes around a table they got cheap when starting out on their own. They worked hard and gradually built their way up in life over time on far less income (relative speaking) than these deluded selfish twirps now and without sticking their hand out for any government funded welfare let alone the extravagant middle class welfare people get now with baby bonuses etc no matter which side is in power.

[Francois Jackson]

Mighty i agree with you. I dont know anyone who is currently receiving the PPL who actually is doing it tough.

Personally think it should be for low income only just scrap the whole thing. Problem with that is is i know a few people who make a very good living driving their own trucks yet still receive Fam Tax A because their taxable income is so low. Its a rort

Just out of curiosity did you feel the same way when you got handed $900 by the Labour government or did you send that back to the government? If your going say PPL is a waste of money surely that was also was it not.

I also agree its that fella's choice to buy a house, especially that expensive. If you cant afford then dont buy it, simple

However life these days is not like it how it was back then.

To purchase a house is like 8 x times average income,(60k x 8 = $480k) where as back then i'm sure it was a lot less plus they didnt need the basic necessities like we need now.
Internet, Mobile, rates, Bills. All these things were non existent back then or have gone up a lot higher than inflation.

[Smokey]

If getting sucked into voting for a pathetic excuse for a politician is the definition of a moron then everyone who voted in Gillard and her band of the worst government ever to prevail this once great country please raise your hands.

We have low inflation, low unemployment and a debt level that is the envy of the rest of the world.

And you believe Tony's crap about bad government.

 

I don't believe anyone's crap about bad government.  Luckily for me I don't adhere blindly to any political ideology (although I class my views as conservative and humanitarian) and in my lifetime I have voted Liberal, National, Labor, Democrat, DLP and even an Independent at different times so you are barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm a lemming contemplating a cliff.  What I do know from my 37 years of voting is that politicians tell more lies than real estate and used car salesmen combined, the Liberals have a poor record when it comes to looking after those who genuinely need a helping hand, and the Labor party are incompetent when it comes to managing the economy.  That is the truth as I know it from the experience of living under many governments of different persuasions and in my time I have never seen a government that has told more lies, been more divisive of class, been more poorly led and done a worse job of managing the economy than the current Rudd/Gillard regime.  And that includes the previous Qld government under Beattie and Bligh who turned a good State government under Goss into a complete and utter untrustworthy rabble, dragging the sound position of the State they inherited into the cellar.  Gillard's stewardship makes them pale by comparison.

[Smokey]

Hey Tony, we don't pay taxes either to hand out (more) welfare to people on up to $150k  .

I get sick of this "I want it all and I want it now" attitude these days (from both sexes) and the expectation that the Government (us taxpayers) should pay for it. I remember this dill (a male in his late 20s/early 30s) in the Herald-Sun early last year complaining that it was hard living even on $150k a year now (he was married with one kid). When you read through the article he had a $800k mortgage  . Now why (unless you could afford it easily) would you go out and buy a first property pushing up towards the $800-900k mark! No one forced him to. Maybe I'm old fashioned Smokey but parents of previous generations would be sitting on boxes around a table they got cheap when starting out on their own. They worked hard and gradually built their way up in life over time on far less income (relative speaking) than these deluded selfish twirps now and without sticking their hand out for any government funded welfare let alone the extravagant middle class welfare people get now with baby bonuses etc no matter which side is in power.

I don't agree with his policy either MT and I agree 100% with you about the attitude of today's "I want it all and I want it now" generation - it makes them under-equipped to deal with the realities of life's travails.  I wasn't sticking up for Abbott's policy in my reply to you, only the unfairness of how the media turned the real intent of his statement by focusing on one word and mischievously taking licence to present it in a different light.  Something that the ideologically blind of all sides do on an all too regular basis.

[1965]

Smokey

Suggest you go back and look at the graphs I posted in this thread.

Once again...

We have low inflation, low unemployment, low tax levels (compared to little Johnny H) and a debt level that is the envy of the rest of the world.

This government can't be doing as bad a job as Tony would have you believe.

 

[Rampstar]

Smokey

Suggest you go back and look at the graphs I posted in this thread.

Once again...

We have low inflation, low unemployment, low tax levels (compared to little Johnny H) and a debt level that is the envy of the rest of the world.

This government can't be doing as bad a job as Tony would have you believe.

 

Labor is stuffed. Everyone knows that they have been the shittest government Australia has ever had. A bunch of socialist greenies who hijacked a great political party and turned into poo. gillard and her rabble are gonna get the biggest kick in the guts on Sept 14 and rightly so. They have been a completely poohouse government. A government that has never produced a budget surplus and will leave office with Australia having an annual $20 billion deficit with commodity prices now going down after years of great prices. Taken Australia from having No Public Debt to being $300 billion down the crapper. Labor has stuffed Australia. I feel sorry for the Kids growing  up. There futures have been mortgaged by this failed government.  And one more thing your graphs are meaningless 65.

[WilliamPowell]

I don't believe anyone's crap about bad government.  Luckily for me I don't adhere blindly to any political ideology (although I class my views as conservative and humanitarian) and in my lifetime I have voted Liberal, National, Labor, Democrat, DLP and even an Independent at different times so you are barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm a lemming contemplating a cliff.  What I do know from my 37 years of voting is that politicians tell more lies than real estate and used car salesmen combined, the Liberals have a poor record when it comes to looking after those who genuinely need a helping hand, and the Labor party are incompetent when it comes to managing the economy.  That is the truth as I know it from the experience of living under many governments of different persuasions and in my time I have never seen a government that has told more lies, been more divisive of class, been more poorly led and done a worse job of managing the economy than the current Rudd/Gillard regime.  And that includes the previous Qld government under Beattie and Bligh who turned a good State government under Goss into a complete and utter untrustworthy rabble, dragging the sound position of the State they inherited into the cellar.  Gillard's stewardship makes them pale by comparison.

Interesting points you make Smokey

I always find the question of the state of the nation an interesting one.

By state of the nation I mean how are we as citizens going/living/surviving? The question I am always asking myself is are we better off or worse now than say 1, 3, 5 or 10 years ago? Are we as a nation becoming more greedy with what want and what we think we are entitled to (yep my welfare chestnut again)? Are we sadly just turning into a bunch of sooks unable to perhaps make the sacrifices we need to; to adjust to the current climate?

But seriosuly when I sit down and look at my situation and look at what's going on around me and answer each of those 
those questions as honeslty as I can I come up with My family is no worse off to Q1 and Yes to the other 2.

Is that a reflection on society looking for someone to blame and not taking responsibility for their collective lot in life. Or is it the fault of the government papmering away to the "i am owed something" menatalty or a combination of both? Seems to me so many people are looking for someone/anyone to blame

I keep hearing and reading that this is the worst government in Australia's history but I question it simply because as I said I am no worse off under this government to what I was under the previous one or the one before that.

I know what tough times are and what they mean. I just don't think people do it that tough these days. I dont think they understand ehat doing it tough actuall means/is.

We were raised solely by my Mum because my Dad died when I was 7. We did it tough. She did it bloody tough. I know what it is like to have to wear "hand me down clothes" because she couldn't afford to buy new ones for us. I know what it's like to not to go on a school camp because we couldn't afford it. I know what it's like to not go on family holidays because we couldn't afford too. So I think I have a good handle of doing it tough

But at the same time and I know it sounds stupid we never wanted for anything because I know how hard she worked to give us the best life and up bringing she could.

The most important thing she taught us though was to work for things and to not expect handouts. If you can't afford don't buy. If you want something save for it - it's not that hard

But today people are so tuned into wanting and expecting that they class not receiving what they want or expect as doing it tough. I suppose the question becomes who's faults that? Their own or the governments

[dwaino]

I remember this dill (a male in his late 20s/early 30s) in the Herald-Sun early last year complaining that it was hard living even on $150k a year now (he was married with one kid). When you read through the article he had a $800k mortgage  . Now why (unless you could afford it easily) would you go out and buy a first property pushing up towards the $800-900k mark!

Gee whiz 

Me and my missus are trying to get into our first home soon, and the hard part is finding a half decent home in a half decent suburb (don't wish to sound like a snob but we have absolutely no desire to move anywhere like Noble Park) that is on its own title (again, want nothing to do with body/owners corporate or any of that bureaucratic crap) . The ballpark of this criteria is $450k-$550k, and while we can that sort of money approved from a reliable lender (as in a bank) it's still a scary amount to have hanging over our heads if anything was to happen to either of our jobs. How anyone would be able to get a $800k loan or even want borrow that much on a typical wage has me stuffed. That's ridiculous. It doesn't help that the state government has scrapped the first home owners grant for established properties ($10k for new though). They've marginally increased the amount of stamp duty they'll chip in, but it's going to require more number crunching when actually looking to buy something (luckily my partner is in conveyancing so I've left all that to her  ). We don't pay anything ridiculous in rent, but paying rent at the same time as trying to save just seems never ending. TBH we've conceded we'll never come up with 20%, which means we'll have to get mortgage insurance which again will cut into what we will end up being able to borrow. It's really depressing because home prices have gone up much more than wages have.

[Francois Jackson]

I remember this dill (a male in his late 20s/early 30s) in the Herald-Sun early last year complaining that it was hard living even on $150k a year now (he was married with one kid). When you read through the article he had a $800k mortgage  . Now why (unless you could afford it easily) would you go out and buy a first property pushing up towards the $800-900k mark!

Gee whiz 

Me and my missus are trying to get into our first home soon, and the hard part is finding a half decent home in a half decent suburb (don't wish to sound like a snob but we have absolutely no desire to move anywhere like Noble Park) that is on its own title (again, want nothing to do with body/owners corporate or any of that bureaucratic crap) . The ballpark of this criteria is $450k-$550k, and while we can that sort of money approved from a reliable lender (as in a bank) it's still a scary amount to have hanging over our heads if anything was to happen to either of our jobs. How anyone would be able to get a $800k loan or even want borrow that much on a typical wage has me stuffed. That's ridiculous. It doesn't help that the state government has scrapped the first home owners grant for established properties ($10k for new though). They've marginally increased the amount of stamp duty they'll chip in, but it's going to require more number crunching when actually looking to buy something (luckily my partner is in conveyancing so I've left all that to her  ). We don't pay anything ridiculous in rent, but paying rent at the same time as trying to save just seems never ending. TBH we've conceded we'll never come up with 20%, which means we'll have to get mortgage insurance which again will cut into what we will end up being able to borrow. It's really depressing because home prices have gone up much more than wages have.

any family to help as guarantor mate? they don't have to hand you any cash just put up some of the equity. Once value goes up you can take them off.

Mortgage insurance is a crock

Noble Park grew up near there. Used to be a nice area with some good sorts floating around. Now i wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

[dwaino]

I remember this dill (a male in his late 20s/early 30s) in the Herald-Sun early last year complaining that it was hard living even on $150k a year now (he was married with one kid). When you read through the article he had a $800k mortgage  . Now why (unless you could afford it easily) would you go out and buy a first property pushing up towards the $800-900k mark!

Gee whiz 

Me and my missus are trying to get into our first home soon, and the hard part is finding a half decent home in a half decent suburb (don't wish to sound like a snob but we have absolutely no desire to move anywhere like Noble Park) that is on its own title (again, want nothing to do with body/owners corporate or any of that bureaucratic crap) . The ballpark of this criteria is $450k-$550k, and while we can that sort of money approved from a reliable lender (as in a bank) it's still a scary amount to have hanging over our heads if anything was to happen to either of our jobs. How anyone would be able to get a $800k loan or even want borrow that much on a typical wage has me stuffed. That's ridiculous. It doesn't help that the state government has scrapped the first home owners grant for established properties ($10k for new though). They've marginally increased the amount of stamp duty they'll chip in, but it's going to require more number crunching when actually looking to buy something (luckily my partner is in conveyancing so I've left all that to her  ). We don't pay anything ridiculous in rent, but paying rent at the same time as trying to save just seems never ending. TBH we've conceded we'll never come up with 20%, which means we'll have to get mortgage insurance which again will cut into what we will end up being able to borrow. It's really depressing because home prices have gone up much more than wages have.

any family to help as guarantor mate? they don't have to hand you any cash just put up some of the equity. Once value goes up you can take them off.

Mortgage insurance is a crock

Noble Park grew up near there. Used to be a nice area with some good sorts floating around. Now i wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Maybe. We'll explore the guarantor option when it comes to sitting down with the paper work and working it out, seeing exactly what we need etc. Our parents are chipping in a bit as it is.

When I first moved here from Brisbane 5 years back I was staying in a granny flat in a block's backyard just near the Maccas on Jacksons Rd.... got out of there as soon as I could 

[WilliamPowell]

Have you thought about going "new" dwaino?

There are number of new estates around, not that far out of town (Williams Landing, Point Cook in the west ) that have H&L packages for under $450K and you get the grant, plus should be able to get cheaper S/Duty too (well used to be able too)

[mightytiges]

Just out of curiosity did you feel the same way when you got handed $900 by the Labour government or did you send that back to the government? If your going say PPL is a waste of money surely that was also was it not.

The PPL isn't a one off nor a economic stimulant though unlike the stimulus package that was designed to urgently and rapidly stimulate an economy undergoing severe deflation (due to global effects) and stop it going into recession. You could argue in my individual case it was a waste of money as I didn't need the $900 but all up nationally it did the job it was designed to do (we stayed out of recession and unemployment stayed relatively low). The PPL will be forever more however once it comes in and it does nothing for the economy. You can't compare the two. If you want a Labor handout that I would bag then things such as the "schools bonus" etc would ones for starters but IIRC they are now scraping the school bonus before it even begins for the budget's sake.

I also agree its that fella's choice to buy a house, especially that expensive. If you cant afford then dont buy it, simple

However life these days is not like it how it was back then.

To purchase a house is like 8 x times average income,(60k x 8 = $480k) where as back then i'm sure it was a lot less plus they didnt need the basic necessities like we need now.
Internet, Mobile, rates, Bills. All these things were non existent back then or have gone up a lot higher than inflation.

True average house prices have gone up relative to average income (roughly 4x average income in the 70s according to the ABS - see below) but single income families were more common back then whereas now often both dad and mum work and bring in double incomes. 

Average income and house price stats for the 70s:
http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/free.nsf/0/ECFD710FA7299B77CA25750C001886D0/$File/63020_MAR1977.pdf
http://www.econ.mq.edu.au/Econ_docs/research_papers2/2004_research_papers/Abelson_9_04.pdf

Whitegoods and electrical goods have actually gone down relative to average income in recent times IIRC. It's utilities that have gone right up  . Add private health insurance in there as well.

Anyway I wasn't talking about average incomers but those earning up to double the average who whinge and complain it's tough when they idiotically overextend themselves financially and then demand welfare from the Government. There's still affordable housing on par with the 4-5x average income in the outer/newer suburbs or there's the option of buying a nice 2-3 bedroom unit in the middle suburbs. You can always upgrade and move to superior premises later on in life as your circumstances improve.

My point is you can still reasonably do it if you're willing to make sacrifices and go without certain things for the time being. It's those who "want it all now" that get themselves into trouble and then sook about it blaming everyone else including the Government for their own predicament .