Will Dimma Be Our Next Premiership Coach?

[WilliamPowell]

Hell yeah. Lets sack the coach and start again! again.

YEP! We should! Don't need to start again, we have the players! Just the game plan is horrible!

Was the game plan horrible against Sydney, Hawthorn, St Kilda, even the Eagles?

Or is it just horrible when we lose?

[rogerd3]

its that horrible that our worst lose
is round one.

beaten 2 definate finalists and maybe
Grand Finalists.

run some others right to the wire.

yep the game plan is a stinker.

i would like to see perhaps more
experience added to the box over summer.

 

[the claw]

From memory - foley, mcguane, moore and tuck are also from Spuds era

Dimma's regime whilst it has unearthed some gems has also had some failures:

From 2009 National draft: taylor, webberly, nason, farmer
and I think most if not all the rookies hicks, contin, roberts, westhoff with the jury still out on Griffs (taken the pick immediately before Fyfe and Bastinac), Astbury and Dea.
Plainly that year we recruited a lot of small body shapes that didnt come on. eg webberly nason and farmer - given we already had nahas and king - how many small blokes do you need?

From 2010 - mcdonald, Xman, and rookies jacobi, hislop

From 2011 - AMaric for the moment....

left from frawley era

jackson, moore, newman, tuck.   jackson should have gone many yrs ago moore has been decent when fit,  newman and tuck are in their 30s. before you can blink there will be none left from the frawley yrs. to have so few left from those yrs is crippling and shows just how poor recruiting has been.

wallace era
connors, cotchin, deledio, edwards, foley was a rookie selection in 2004 that puts him in wallace drafts.graham, king, mcguane, nahas, post, rance, riewoldt, vickery  white.
theres 13 left from 2004 to 2008 drfts. 7 of them are borderline afl players and thats being kind. bloody hell its enough to make one cry.
i can honestly  state that only only 5 maybe 6 players from these yrs are genuine long term players who are up to standard.

the 17 players mentioned should be our core group of quality big bodied experienced leaders that allow all of the kids from the hardwick era 1 to 3 yrs time to develop and lead them.
yet the truth of the matter is we are all waiting for younger players to mature and push most of  these hacks out.

the reality is hardwick has started from almost as low a base as gc and gws and i dont see anyone demanding they make finals for awhile yet.

while what have been very ordinary players like nahas king edwards mcguane jackson white are clearly in our best 22 performed players we will struggle to win games against all sides.

ffs our best 22 falls away dranatically we need enough players coming thru to make these blokes nothing more than depth. we need about 30 decent players. atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15  but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.

wallace era

[unplugged]

atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15  but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.

The list is capable of beating the 1st and 3rd teams, Sydney and Hawthorn.  The list you describe is incapable of those wins.

There are no excuses for losing so many close games.  There are no excuses for not playing the finals this year.

Putting Campbell on the field against North presents a serious coaching/communication issue.  It took 16 rounds of denial to acknowledge there is a problem.  This response was too little too late.

The club needs to take a more proactive approach.  They cannot continue to employ someone who is learning on the job beyond the end of this season.  Richmond needs an experienced proven coach who can get results with the playing list we have.  Not the playing list we wish we had.  They need to do everything in their power to get Mick Malthouse at the end of the season.

[tdy]

From memory - foley, mcguane, moore and tuck are also from Spuds era

Dimma's regime whilst it has unearthed some gems has also had some failures:

From 2009 National draft: taylor, webberly, nason, farmer
and I think most if not all the rookies hicks, contin, roberts, westhoff with the jury still out on Griffs (taken the pick immediately before Fyfe and Bastinac), Astbury and Dea.
Plainly that year we recruited a lot of small body shapes that didnt come on. eg webberly nason and farmer - given we already had nahas and king - how many small blokes do you need?

From 2010 - mcdonald, Xman, and rookies jacobi, hislop

From 2011 - AMaric for the moment....

left from frawley era

jackson, moore, newman, tuck.   jackson should have gone many yrs ago moore has been decent when fit,  newman and tuck are in their 30s. before you can blink there will be none left from the frawley yrs. to have so few left from those yrs is crippling and shows just how poor recruiting has been.

wallace era
connors, cotchin, deledio, edwards, foley was a rookie selection in 2004 that puts him in wallace drafts.graham, king, mcguane, nahas, post, rance, riewoldt, vickery  white.
theres 13 left from 2004 to 2008 drfts. 7 of them are borderline afl players and thats being kind. bloody hell its enough to make one cry.
i can honestly  state that only only 5 maybe 6 players from these yrs are genuine long term players who are up to standard.

the 17 players mentioned should be our core group of quality big bodied experienced leaders that allow all of the kids from the hardwick era 1 to 3 yrs time to develop and lead them.
yet the truth of the matter is we are all waiting for younger players to mature and push most of  these hacks out.

the reality is hardwick has started from almost as low a base as gc and gws and i dont see anyone demanding they make finals for awhile yet.

while what have been very ordinary players like nahas king edwards mcguane jackson white are clearly in our best 22 performed players we will struggle to win games against all sides.

ffs our best 22 falls away dranatically we need enough players coming thru to make these blokes nothing more than depth. we need about 30 decent players. atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15  but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.

wallace era

It's not surprising that the Wallace era was so poor given the lack of funds for recruiting then and given the funds other clubs did put in to recruiting then.  Also it's not surprising that from the first year of hardwick most have failed.  We did 14 new players that year and I said at the time if 7 make it it would be a good result.

Note the only ones we've kept have been reasonably high draft picks from hardwicks first year.  Says the pre season and rookie drafts are fluke territory and should be used differently.  If we'd drafted Leon Davis last year in the pre season would we be still in the hunt for finals?  A genuine good AFL standard distributor of the ball.  We'll never know.  But all the good young kids are gone by pre season usually. 

I'm more concerned with guys like astbury, conca, Ellis, dea, griffiths.  These guys need to develop as good players or the hardwick era will fail.  This will be the mark of hardwick, not cotchin.

[georgies31]

In the last 2 weeks we have dropped 2 games and 8 points to climb up the ladder.Both games in the 4qtr the games were lost.I'm not going to say the reason we lost these games was his fault .but the coach's box made a few mistakes in these games.

[Stripes]

Edited to delete quoted post that has been removed for breaking forum rules AGAIN

Would have us returning to the dark old days where we sacked coaches as soon as we didn't make finals?! Surely you can see we have progressed this year and are making real gains. Under Dimma you can see real development in players and real improvement in our club culture. This has been our greatest problem at Richmond for decades. We have had small glimmers of success but nothing sustained. How many players have we had come to the club with an abundance of potential who never seem to fulfill it?

I struggle with Haters. Rather than look for the quick fix and get excited about the opportunity to pull out the knives, give us a realistic solution. Give us a viable alternative that doesn't mean we have to start again, doesn't bring instability to the club and does undo all the great work that the club has achieved with Dimma at the helm.

I for one love the fact that finally from the admin down Richmond is all on the same page. When was the last time we could say that? Dimma will make mistakes like any coach during a game but its what he learns from the mistake that counts.

The time of heaping all the blame on the one coach is gone, we are no longer in the 80's - the game has changed. The players need to take equal responsibility, as do the administration, assistant coaches and fitness staff. Was it Dimmas fault we sold a game to Cairns? Was it Dimma's fault that the players lost the plot in the last 2 minutes of the Suns game? Was it Dimmas fault we have had so many injuries to crucial players? Is it Dimma's fault that Petrie kicked 7 on the weekend? Was it Dimma's fault that Connors, Martin, Jackson and White got suspended?

Will Dimma be our next premiership coach - I sure hope so because he is doing far more right than he is wrong.

[the claw]

From memory - foley, mcguane, moore and tuck are also from Spuds era

Dimma's regime whilst it has unearthed some gems has also had some failures:

From 2009 National draft: taylor, webberly, nason, farmer
and I think most if not all the rookies hicks, contin, roberts, westhoff with the jury still out on Griffs (taken the pick immediately before Fyfe and Bastinac), Astbury and Dea.
Plainly that year we recruited a lot of small body shapes that didnt come on. eg webberly nason and farmer - given we already had nahas and king - how many small blokes do you need?

From 2010 - mcdonald, Xman, and rookies jacobi, hislop

From 2011 - AMaric for the moment....

left from frawley era

jackson, moore, newman, tuck.   jackson should have gone many yrs ago moore has been decent when fit,  newman and tuck are in their 30s. before you can blink there will be none left from the frawley yrs. to have so few left from those yrs is crippling and shows just how poor recruiting has been.

wallace era
connors, cotchin, deledio, edwards, foley was a rookie selection in 2004 that puts him in wallace drafts.graham, king, mcguane, nahas, post, rance, riewoldt, vickery  white.
theres 13 left from 2004 to 2008 drfts. 7 of them are borderline afl players and thats being kind. bloody hell its enough to make one cry.
i can honestly  state that only only 5 maybe 6 players from these yrs are genuine long term players who are up to standard.

the 17 players mentioned should be our core group of quality big bodied experienced leaders that allow all of the kids from the hardwick era 1 to 3 yrs time to develop and lead them.
yet the truth of the matter is we are all waiting for younger players to mature and push most of  these hacks out.

the reality is hardwick has started from almost as low a base as gc and gws and i dont see anyone demanding they make finals for awhile yet.

while what have been very ordinary players like nahas king edwards mcguane jackson white are clearly in our best 22 performed players we will struggle to win games against all sides.

ffs our best 22 falls away dranatically we need enough players coming thru to make these blokes nothing more than depth. we need about 30 decent players. atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15  but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.

wallace era

It's not surprising that the Wallace era was so poor given the lack of funds for recruiting then and given the funds other clubs did put in to recruiting then.  Also it's not surprising that from the first year of hardwick most have failed.  We did 14 new players that year and I said at the time if 7 make it it would be a good result.

Note the only ones we've kept have been reasonably high draft picks from hardwicks first year.  Says the pre season and rookie drafts are fluke territory and should be used differently.  If we'd drafted Leon Davis last year in the pre season would we be still in the hunt for finals?  A genuine good AFL standard distributor of the ball.  We'll never know.  But all the good young kids are gone by pre season usually. 

I'm more concerned with guys like astbury, conca, Ellis, dea, griffiths.  These guys need to develop as good players or the hardwick era will fail.  This will be the mark of hardwick, not cotchin.

pretty much agree with that. funny thing is as much as those players need to improve for us to go forward most have them in our best 22 apart from astbury. that in itself says alot about our more mature players  or just how many we have up to standard.

i have constanly said on all sites that ive been on, that with young rookie picks you are looking at a 1 in 6 strike rate. ive often espoused we give more mature state league player a go who meet certain criteria with rookie picks.
psd picks and late nd picks the strike rate aint much better and that is for all clubs.

i havent done the percentages on these things for a fair while now and wont it is too much work. but i bet my bottom dollar the 1 in 6 strike rate is still close if not worse nowadays.

leon davis would have meant we dont have to play an underperformer he probably would have given us much more value than a rookie  pick who is more  likely  than not to ever get a game.
i laugh my head of when people regularly say no that bloke is to old to take with a late nd or rookie pick despite him being a proven player with 2 or 3 yrs to offer something.
clubs have to have both short term strategy useing cheap picks player swaps etc and long term strategy useing early picks to catch up and pass we must embrace all aspects of recruiting.

[Stripes]

I agree with you hear claw. We are now at a stage when we can take older players with our Rookie and PSD. These sort of players are almost always short term options. If you have a role that needs to be immediately filled or depth issues that need a band aid then this option is the right way to go. The second part of the issue though is that you then need to make sure you don't leave an equally difficult hole to fill when they inevitably retire/fall away. So the secret to drafting older recruits as Rookies is having younger/developing players moving up to take their place and pressure them to keep their place.

As always recruiting and list management is a balancing act. 

[the claw]

I agree with you hear claw. We are now at a stage when we can take older players with our Rookie and PSD. These sort of players are almost always short term options. If you have a role that needs to be immediately filled or depth issues that need a band aid then this option is the right way to go. The second part of the issue though is that you then need to make sure you don't leave an equally difficult hole to fill when they inevitably retire/fall away. So the secret to drafting older recruits as Rookies is having younger/developing players moving up to take their place and pressure them to keep their place.

As always recruiting and list management is a balancing act.

agree.

[the claw]

atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15  but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.

The list is capable of beating the 1st and 3rd teams, Sydney and Hawthorn.  The list you describe is incapable of those wins.

There are no excuses for losing so many close games.  There are no excuses for not playing the finals this year.

Putting Campbell on the field against North presents a serious coaching/communication issue.  It took 16 rounds of denial to acknowledge there is a problem.  This response was too little too late.

The club needs to take a more proactive approach.  They cannot continue to employ someone who is learning on the job beyond the end of this season.  Richmond needs an experienced proven coach who can get results with the playing list we have.  Not the playing list we wish we had.  They need to do everything in their power to get Mick Malthouse at the end of the season.

rubbish didnt melb beat wce.i suppose they are a top 8 list as well.

our list or best 22 are competetive but from about the 16th player it drops away far too much, if we lose say nahas and replace him with white its no big deal talent wise they are similar but if you bring in a white or nahas for  say martin its a chasm. you need something inbetween. lose 3 or 4 of the better 16 and the side begins to fill up with duds and the burden is too much on those who are left.
if our 17th thru 22nd player was actually our 25th thru 30th player i could live with it.
we will remain competetive against most with our best 22 and they are all at or near their best it doesnt take much to go wrong and not be a realistic chance. finally even if a side makes the 8 it does not mean it has a good list or anything is sustainable.

[unplugged]

Stripes. Two main themes to your post.

First theme.  Bad old days of sacking coaches.  This is a fallacy.  This excuse was used to keep Wallace and Frawley for so long.

Bartlett Sacking.  Bad
Northey not being offered enough money.  Bad
Walls sacking.  2 years too much.
Giesch sacking.  How did he get appointed?
Frawley.  Lasted too long.
Walliace  Lasted too long.
Hardwick. Has had long enough to show something.  Particularly on match day which has cost us another finals birth.


Second theme. Improvement 
(The undeniable Tony Greenberg factor - he didn't have blinkers when he wrote for inside footy)

The Playing List. Improved enormously.  With more funding in our recruitment department, more money in general and better facilities, it had to.  PASS

Club culture.  Connors, Martin White and Jackson. Riewoldt sooking like a big baby. It hasn't improved one bit.   FAIL.

Discipline.  3 Goals from 50m penalties and 5 goals from free kicks on the weekend.  Discipline has been as bad as the bad bad old days.  FAIL.

Performance/Match Day Coaching.  We lose every close game.  FAIL

Player Development:  Coburg  FAIL.  Existing senior player development. eg.  white, mcguane. etc   Fail.  Young draftees, mid picks and rookies. First year of recruiting.  FAIL.  Need more time to see how the second and third year goes. Contrast this with mature age recruits who were developed elsewhere and you question our development system.  Marginal change since Wallace era.

Media Management:  So many silly statements.  Loves to pass the buck to God, Players, Umpires, quality of opposition etc. Questions over honesty.  Cringe worthy.  FAIL.

The only area we have significantly improved in is the quality of our list.  In every other facet we have gone backwards or improved marginally.  Certainly at a slower rate than the teams above us.

A quality coach would have an enormous and instant impact on this list and subsequently win/loss ratios.  I wish Hardwick was better.  Wished Wallace and Frawley were better too.  Doesn't change anything.  What we need is for Richmond to be better.

[Penelope]

the issue with northey was not money, but extension of contract.

There was a lot of talk about northey not geting a contact renewal the next year, led by that trout moth mal brown, and when the club refused to give him an extension he took up the offer to coach the bears.

club culture - all clubs will have isolated incedents of individuals doing the wrong thing. richmonds culture problem has never been one of off field behavior, but on field. rewoldt is one player, not the club.

discipline. up until recently we have been pretty good on the filed in this area. again 1 individual's actions like jackson does not reflect that of the team.

loosing every close game. OK it's frustrating, but the fact we in close games is an improvement on getting smashed once the screws were applied. in three year we hav gone from a club that regularily got beaten by 10 plus goals and on some occasions 100 points. when was last time we had a percentage of 100 or more? the next step is to start nailing these games.

player development is a fail based on mcguane, white etc? seriously, not even macguiver could make stawberry jam out of poo