Sack Hardwick [merged]

[Hellenic Tiger]

It aint Hardwicks fault.

If you all think Dimma is the problem then you are in fantasy land.

The list is bereft of quality under our top tier of players and once the subs come in when injuries hit it really exposes our side.

You cannot blame Dimma for the sins of 1982 or forcing us to Save Our Skins in 1990 or not signing Northey in 1995 or Spud in 2001 topping up after a Prelim or even and most pertinently having to strip the list back at the end of 2009.

If after two years when we haven't reached where many have wanted us to reach due to the magnitude of the job the incumbent coach has had to deal with and we sack him only for the new regime to spit out the same ambitions for the same result then all these coaches are doing in effect is like a pilot trying to control a plane in a phugoid cycle. See Japan Air Lines 123 boys.

If you want us to be that keep wishing for a sack of coach every two years where some duds will be retained merely b/c a coach needs to see the quality of the list.

Dimma cannot be blamed for last night or for the last 2.5 years. Even Malthouse in 2000 won his first five games after the Pies were wooden spooners in 1999 and yet finished 7-15 because their side was skata and yes even though they made a GF in 2002 laugh all you like where they ever going to win it.  Betheras and co Premiership players. Ha you're all dreaming. Funny thing is you would have all been laughing like I was with Licuria crying on Micks shoulder that year and laughing even harder in 03 when they got beaten by 10 goals. The rebuild will take longer than you guys care to believe or want to believe and regardless of the calibre of coach it still will take time.

[Jackstar is back!!!]

Having Moore and McGaune inside F 50 in the last quarter tell me that the coaches are in dream land.
Seriously Kel Moore inside F 50
Why would you put Post up there

[Hellenic Tiger]

Having Moore and McGaune inside F 50 in the last quarter tell me that the coaches are in dream land.
Seriously Kel Moore inside F 50
Why would you put Post up there

Post was reasonable last night and was at least breaking even.

Kel Moore was nowhere. He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

That move didn't lose us the game Jack. Take it easy pal.

[Tigeritis™©®]

i dont believe we should sack the coach.One of the things we need to do is see how other clubs do it.People here continually give it to the kangaroos.yet they are always there abouts .they drop for a year or 2 then bounce back..Why???The bulldogs is another one.They are down at the moment ,but you can bet your bottom dollar they will also bounce back.yet we drift along at the bottom.promicisng resurgence for a week or 2 then back to normal crap.
not that long ago Carlton were almost out for the count,after receiving a million dollar fine and not being able to participate in the draft properly,yet they have bounced back.Even last night ,some estimate they had 10 players out,yet won...Theres something amiss at our football club....i reckon its a soul

it's a culture of mediocrtiy. Too many coaches have failed to identify this one issue and have settled with a close enough is good enough mentality.
Fix the culture and even the hacks play decent footy.
Fix the culture and fringe dwellers rise to the level when given an opportunity in the senior team.
Fix the culture and we win the games we should win.
Fix the culture and finals aren't just a dream.
Fix the culture and we win the close one when we are in front with a minute to go.
Fix the culture and we aren't having this discussion.

Demand excellence. Raise the standard. Don't accept any mistake. This is how you fix culture. The players that don't get on board won't stay and we will always be a ruthless team that demands success. And all else will fall into place. 

[eliminator]

"The list is bereft of quality under our top tier of players and once the subs come in when injuries hit it really exposes our side" Spot on. Depth a real problem. Agree need to work on culture of the club. Do not want to be know as chockers under pressure. Good sides don't choke. Problem at the moment is every side in comp knows that if they are within a couple of goals of us they will win. Mentally we need to toughen up

[dwaino]

Yeah nah

[Coach]

Dimma is ass with match ups and selections. Not convinced by him at all.

[Judge Roughneck]

While you are by and large right.

Dimma is not without blame. Drafting miller. Playing miller ahead of ypung prospects. His coaching efforts the last few months.

It aint Hardwicks fault.

If you all think Dimma is the problem then you are in fantasy land.

The list is bereft of quality under our top tier of players and once the subs come in when injuries hit it really exposes our side.

You cannot blame Dimma for the sins of 1982 or forcing us to Save Our Skins in 1990 or not signing Northey in 1995 or Spud in 2001 topping up after a Prelim or even and most pertinently having to strip the list back at the end of 2009.

If after two years when we haven't reached where many have wanted us to reach due to the magnitude of the job the incumbent coach has had to deal with and we sack him only for the new regime to spit out the same ambitions for the same result then all these coaches are doing in effect is like a pilot trying to control a plane in a phugoid cycle. See Japan Air Lines 123 boys.

If you want us to be that keep wishing for a sack of coach every two years where some duds will be retained merely b/c a coach needs to see the quality of the list.

Dimma cannot be blamed for last night or for the last 2.5 years. Even Malthouse in 2000 won his first five games after the Pies were wooden spooners in 1999 and yet finished 7-15 because their side was skata and yes even though they made a GF in 2002 laugh all you like where they ever going to win it.  Betheras and co Premiership players. Ha you're all dreaming. Funny thing is you would have all been laughing like I was with Licuria crying on Micks shoulder that year and laughing even harder in 03 when they got beaten by 10 goals. The rebuild will take longer than you guys care to believe or want to believe and regardless of the calibre of coach it still will take time.

[WilliamPowell]

It aint Hardwicks fault.

If you all think Dimma is the problem then you are in fantasy land.

The list is bereft of quality under our top tier of players and once the subs come in when injuries hit it really exposes our side.

You cannot blame Dimma for the sins of 1982 or forcing us to Save Our Skins in 1990 or not signing Northey in 1995 or Spud in 2001 topping up after a Prelim or even and most pertinently having to strip the list back at the end of 2009.

If after two years when we haven't reached where many have wanted us to reach due to the magnitude of the job the incumbent coach has had to deal with and we sack him only for the new regime to spit out the same ambitions for the same result then all these coaches are doing in effect is like a pilot trying to control a plane in a phugoid cycle. See Japan Air Lines 123 boys.

If you want us to be that keep wishing for a sack of coach every two years where some duds will be retained merely b/c a coach needs to see the quality of the list.

Dimma cannot be blamed for last night or for the last 2.5 years. Even Malthouse in 2000 won his first five games after the Pies were wooden spooners in 1999 and yet finished 7-15 because their side was skata and yes even though they made a GF in 2002 laugh all you like where they ever going to win it.  Betheras and co Premiership players. Ha you're all dreaming. Funny thing is you would have all been laughing like I was with Licuria crying on Micks shoulder that year and laughing even harder in 03 when they got beaten by 10 goals. The rebuild will take longer than you guys care to believe or want to believe and regardless of the calibre of coach it still will take time.

Bingo 

[WilliamPowell]

Its not the young players that are the culprits its the players that heve been around a while.. mc guane to many stupid free kicks, grigg shirking it no defensive side to game wont chase, reiwolt sooking wont chase ,ego giving away to many frees , houli shirkes it, rance cant hit a target from 20m away to many turnovers and stupid free kicks , little maric not up to it, jackson cant hit a target at all,stupid free kicks reported to much. graham insipid.....coach appears to play favourites that dont earn games will eventually cost him his job

Bingo x 2

Also nice to see someone see in Grigg what I see   

Refusing to attack the Carlton bloke in the final qtr just near the corner of the centre square was costly so bloody costly

[WilliamPowell]

I can't believe the comments on this topic! Eff me, we are the youngest list behind GC and GWS, we need to learn to win the close ones. It will come but bugger me at least we are in these games, in the past couple of years we weren't even close so I don't know why it's Hardwicks fault.  We are on the right track.

Who was calling for Hardwick to be sacked when we beat Hawthorn by 10 goals and Sydney by 5? The facts are that we had virtually nil injuries then and showed what we are capable of, what is being exposed right now is our clear lack of depth.

The facts are that with injuries to Foley, Grimes, Vickery, Griffiths, Batchelor reveals that our 5 replacements just aren't up to it.  We need to shore up our depth and hopefully that will happen this off season but let's not go crazy because of these last couple of results. I've seen enough to know that with another off season of strategic recruiting and another preseason for our youngsters that we will be a much better side in 2013.

Whilst I agree Hardwick could change things up a little, like last night move Riewoldt up to wing because hewas getting soundly beaten but unfortunately with our injuries we don't have enough talls to put forward if you take Jack out of there.

I know it's easy to say but we are on track, whilst its so disappointing to smell success but yet fall short, we are in the right place and I look forward to 2013.

Bingo x 3

[Ox]

it aint Hardwicks fault yet in hindsight,his tactical moves at crucial points of the matches aren't either.

rubbish.

Coach has to wear it

[Hellenic Tiger]

Its not the young players that are the culprits its the players that heve been around a while.. mc guane to many stupid free kicks, grigg shirking it no defensive side to game wont chase, reiwolt sooking wont chase ,ego giving away to many frees , houli shirkes it, rance cant hit a target from 20m away to many turnovers and stupid free kicks , little maric not up to it, jackson cant hit a target at all,stupid free kicks reported to much. graham insipid.....coach appears to play favourites that dont earn games will eventually cost him his job

Bingo x 2

Also nice to see someone see in Grigg what I see   

Refusing to attack the Carlton bloke in the final qtr just near the corner of the centre square was costly so bloody costly

Houli is squib 1 did it last week and this week I am off the leash on him.

Grigg Members stand side of the wing last quarter needed to go went in and made sure he didn't get hurt that was his first objective wheraea Carlton player made the ball his and they got a goal.

Squib.

Now I recall the Melbourne incident last year when he let the ball run out rather than take the hit.

Squib.

Outside player that has played his role well in a midfield of Foley Tuck Cotch Dusty who are extractors and he compliments them well as an outside runner as he under those circumstances gets no attention: but in a tight tough close desperate game when acts of courage and bravery mean more than anything alas Griggy is about as tough as an ice cream in a closed car on a dashboard on a hot day. Melt melt melt. Squib.

As Billy Ocean sang "when the going gets tough the tough get going, when the going gets rough the rough get tough"

Tuckerbags version "when the going gets tough this squibs get going when the going gets rough the squibs have had enough"

Houli- Squib 1
Grigg- Squib 2

[Coach]

it aint Hardwicks fault yet in hindsight,his tactical moves at crucial points of the matches aren't either.

rubbish.

Coach has to wear it

Kel Moore is a good forward and has proven that in his 10 year AFL career.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Your not giving my post a bingo WP.

You think Culture hasn't got anything to do with the real reason we have been so crap for so long?   

I think it's still the most pressing issue at the club.
Culture that demands excellence will make a lesser player better. We don't lose the unlosable. Etc etc.
If this isn't fixed even with more list turnovers or a perceived greater playing depth will all come to nothing and before you know it the careers of great players like Cotchin or Delidio etc. will be wasted on our club.
Coaches make a difference and hopefully hardwick may still do it but unless he addresses this issue I can see us rebuilding under a new coach in 2 years.