Sack Hardwick [merged]

[Hellenic Tiger]

Your not giving my post a bingo WP.

You think Culture hasn't got anything to do with the real reason we have been so crap for so long?   

I think it's still the most pressing issue at the club.
Culture that demands excellence will make a lesser player better. We don't lose the unlosable. Etc etc.
If this isn't fixed even with more list turnovers or a perceived greater playing depth will all come to nothing and before you know it the careers of great players like Cotchin or Delidio etc. will be wasted on our club.
Coaches make a difference and hopefully hardwick may still do it but unless he addresses this issue I can see us rebuilding under a new coach in 2 years.   

You think Culture hasn't got anything to do with the real reason we have been so crap for so long?   

I think it's still the most pressing issue at the club.
Culture that demands excellence will make a lesser player better. We don't lose the unlosable. Etc etc.
If this isn't fixed even with more list turnovers or a perceived greater playing depth will all come to nothing and before you know it the careers of great players like Cotchin or Delidio etc. will be wasted on our club.
Coaches make a difference and hopefully hardwick may still do it but unless he addresses this issue I can see us rebuilding under a new coach in 2 years.   

You cannot blame culture on Hardwick Mr Tigra.

Can you blame Dimma for the decisions made post 1982 GF and the club falling into decay with Save Our SKins by 1990.

Can you blame Dimma for not getting NOrthey signed and for Walls and Gieche shortcomings or for Spud and Wallace? No you can't.

To be even fair and objective on Dimma and Benny Gale they will be judged accordingly when their tenures are over and to be even fairer two months ago wasn't it the same culture that had us with a full list knocking on the door of the 8 with inspiration wins and performances.

Whilst culture yes has been an issue to blame the culture here and now today this very second you read this on Dimma and Gale is derelict and downright and unfair on a regime that in the last 30 years have engaged in initiatives that no regime since Graham Richmond in the mid 60's has decided to embark upon to make this club great once again.

Each to their own but you can't go from whining about culture and blaming that and then blaming the culture on a list that has players who have as much character as old squishy bathroom rug thanks to a previous regime who pillaged the then bereft resources of the RFC to line their pockets with the then little available spare money who left the club in a worse financial state than what we were in 2004 when the previous regime walked out the door.

It's so easy to lay the blame on something to find the pinpoint cause and work out from that to where you are is even harder. To just blame culture is just a superficial and easy answer to make right now on though partially right it will require alot more elaboration and content to make this right and find the root cuase of this issue.

[torch]

May need merge the two Sack Hardwick threads together!

[10 FLAGS]

The club has very low standards. Our club chases players like Houli and Grigg. When I said at the time of their recruitment that they were C grade footballers at best, I was attacked, that we won the trades because we paid less.

I got some news boys - when you trade like for like and what your trading out, your happy to trade out - then what you get in isnt going to produce the results you want.

Our club lacks ambition. Too many people at Richmond getting paid big dollars and produce rubbish results and then we all sit around and blame the coach who has done a massive job, people have forgotten that hes cleared out 30 blokes in two and half years, and he still has about 12 players to go. Thats the list he found. It was crap when he came and its still got a massive way to go.

[Tigermonk]

The club has very low standards. Our club chases players like Houli and Grigg. When I said at the time of their recruitment that they were C grade footballers at best, I was attacked, that we won the trades because we paid less.

I got some news boys - when you trade like for like and what your trading out, your happy to trade out - then what you get in isnt going to produce the results you want.

Our club lacks ambition. Too many people at Richmond getting paid big dollars and produce rubbish results and then we all sit around and blame the coach who has done a massive job, people have forgotten that hes cleared out 30 blokes in two and half years, and he still has about 12 players to go. Thats the list he found. It was crap when he came and its still got a massive way to go.

l like this post of yours 10 Flagons  Wallace was claiming the rewards on recruited list he left. Not long to go till they all gone apart from Deledio

[WilliamPowell]

Your not giving my post a bingo WP.

You think Culture hasn't got anything to do with the real reason we have been so crap for so long?   

I think it's still the most pressing issue at the club.
Culture that demands excellence will make a lesser player better. We don't lose the unlosable. Etc etc.
If this isn't fixed even with more list turnovers or a perceived greater playing depth will all come to nothing and before you know it the careers of great players like Cotchin or Delidio etc. will be wasted on our club.
Coaches make a difference and hopefully hardwick may still do it but unless he addresses this issue I can see us rebuilding under a new coach in 2 years.   

Not disputing the issue of culture having a bearing on the club Mr Tigra but I'm like Tucker I don't think you can blame the current regime for ills of the last 30 years.

Yes we need to get a winning culture in the place but before you can have a winning culture you need a team that is going to win on a regular basis. That is a team that isn't going to rely on a handful of players week after week.

But I think suggesting that Hardwick isnt trying to change it is just wrong. Also expecting it to have change in 3 years is simply to realistic

[Tigeritis™©®]

Your not giving my post a bingo WP.

You think Culture hasn't got anything to do with the real reason we have been so crap for so long?   

I think it's still the most pressing issue at the club.
Culture that demands excellence will make a lesser player better. We don't lose the unlosable. Etc etc.
If this isn't fixed even with more list turnovers or a perceived greater playing depth will all come to nothing and before you know it the careers of great players like Cotchin or Delidio etc. will be wasted on our club.
Coaches make a difference and hopefully hardwick may still do it but unless he addresses this issue I can see us rebuilding under a new coach in 2 years.   

Not disputing the issue of culture having a bearing on the club Mr Tigra but I'm like Tucker I don't think you can blame the current regime for ills of the last 30 years.

Yes we need to get a winning culture in the place but before you can have a winning culture you need a team that is going to win on a regular basis. That is a team that isn't going to rely on a handful of players week after week.

But I think suggesting that Hardwick isnt trying to change it is just wrong. Also expecting it to have change in 3 years is simply to realistic

I've never blamed the current regime for the ills of the last 30 years. I'm blaming the current regime for not addressing this issue as yet. I know that Benny Gale had done alot off field and Hardwick seems to have done some good things already better than any regime at any time since 1982 but for them to not seemingly fix this one issue when as a club has been the issue for the last 30 years has me baffled.
I personally think Benny has done an excellent job thus far but in Hardwicks case we all look from afar and hope to see change. The fruits of change aren't losing unlosable games. There's absolutely no excuses for losing that game and the game against freo and last nights game against the blues. These losses are just not acceptable but it still is happening which begs the question. Why?
People can blame injuries, playing surface, umpires, location,etc. But facts are facts we continue to lose these games. So what has changed on field?
.... It makes me wonder.
I like all of use are fearful of what might happen again. And that is another rebuild in 2-3 years if they don't get this thing right. And by what I see things haven't changed on field.

[Penelope]

if the culture was so bad , we would still be getting the floggings we got under wallace, not constantly loosing close games.

while still not good enough its a step in the right direction.

some people seem to think that it is as easy as switching a switch, but anyone that has played competitve sport at an any level knows its not that simple

[Tigeritis™©®]

if the culture was so bad , we would still be getting the floggings we got under wallace, not constantly loosing close games.

while still not good enough its a step in the right direction.

some people seem to think that it is as easy as switching a switch, but anyone that has played competitve sport at an any level knows its not that simple

it's as easy as demanding a high standard and not accepting anything less.

I played at 3 clubs. One club didn't have a high standard of achievement and I was a regular player in that team because of the lack of standards.
I played at another club which was ruthless with the playing group and I only played 5 senior games for that team. The last club I played for the coach got sacked mid way through the year and the new coach was completly different with his standards compared to the sacked coach we weren't allowed to make a mistake at training and we were severly punished as a group if anyone made a mistake.
We made finals that year when it didn't look possible.

A coach can make a huge difference but he needs to demand it and not accept anything less.
From what I see Hardwick has lesser standards than what Clarkson has.   

[Chuck17]

What about Hirds standards?

[Penelope]

if the culture was so bad , we would still be getting the floggings we got under wallace, not constantly loosing close games.

while still not good enough its a step in the right direction.

some people seem to think that it is as easy as switching a switch, but anyone that has played competitve sport at an any level knows its not that simple

it's as easy as demanding a high standard and not accepting anything less.

I played at 3 clubs. One club didn't have a high standard of achievement and I was a regular player in that team because of the lack of standards.
I played at another club which was ruthless with the playing group and I only played 5 senior games for that team. The last club I played for the coach got sacked mid way through the year and the new coach was completly different with his standards compared to the sacked coach we weren't allowed to make a mistake at training and we were severly punished as a group if anyone made a mistake.
We made finals that year when it didn't look possible.

A coach can make a huge difference but he needs to demand it and not accept anything less.
From what I see Hardwick has lesser standards than what Clarkson has.

That sounds as much about the quality of the players rather than the standards.

you can cry all you want about not accepting mediorcicy, but you will never ever turn someone like mcguane into a top line footballer, no matter how many times you make the team do push ups because he misses a target at training or any other stupidity you want to come up with.

we are scraping the bottom of the barrel and asking a lot of 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players because of the cleanouts we have had and injuries/ suspensions.

Until we get blokes ranked 22-28 on the list that can can step up when needed, once we go away from our best 22 you will not get near top line performance.

No amout of wailing, magic wand waving, self flagellation or incantation chanting will change that.

The fact that you could not stand up to the higher standard required when in the better teams, should highlight this to you.

[Hellenic Tiger]

The club has sold its FTF message 19th man message and all that crap. Rather than look and try and make the Essendon home game in Round 22 as the clubs GF after the great success in the way it marketed last nights game as the clubs final the club needs to the right thing long term by the fans the players it is looking to keep on the list next year and the club itself.

Anyone who has niggles in for an op.

Ivan have an op now and be ready for pre season in early November. No point waiting till early September and then add end of season break and start pre season in December.

Anyone who has niggles have a break and pull the pin.

Play the kids as many as we can.

With a full list we have shown some great signs our focus from now has to be ROund 1 next year against the Filth and preparing for that, getting those with injuries right and ensuring that our trade and draft weeks are successful and we find the right player for the list deficiency we have. A couple of boys in the draft who can step right in like Ellis or Morris would be more than handy.

The club's reputation is a t stake or whatever is left of it anyway according to some.

[unplugged]

Haven't shown signs of anything except for an ability to lose the impossible on a consistent basis. 

A Carlton reserve team without Judd against a near complete richmond list.  Carlton didn't cry we can't win because we have no depth. Ratten was up and about because he knew that Hardwick would do everything possible to save his (Rattens) career.

We added Maric, Morris, and Tuck to the senior line up this year.  That's the difference between the 10 goal losses and close losses.  There have been no other improvements to complement that.  Hardwick has done nothing except for correcting the ridiculous decision not to play Tuck last year.  Still umming and ahhing about signing him up again.

The Richmond media circus has to keep pushing the message "improvement".  This is the best list we have had for a very long time.  If we really had improved, we wouldn't need the club to sell us the message, it would be blatantly obvious.  We would be playing finals.

You add Cloke and Malthouse to this line up and we will be a top 4 side next year, not in 10 years time.

[Chuck17]

Haven't shown signs of anything except for an ability to lose the impossible on a consistent basis. 

A Carlton reserve team without Judd against a near complete richmond list.  Carlton didn't cry we can't win because we have no depth. Ratten was up and about because he knew that Hardwick would do everything possible to save his (Rattens) career.

We added Maric, Morris, and Tuck to the senior line up this year.  That's the difference between the 10 goal losses and close losses.  There have been no other improvements to complement that.  Hardwick has done nothing except for correcting he ridiculous decision not to play Tuck last year.  Still umming and ahhing about signing him up again.

The Richmond media circus has to keep pushing the message "improvement".  This is the best list we have had for a very long time.  If we really had improved, we wouldn't need the club to sell us the message, it would be blatantly obvious.  We would be playing finals.

You add Cloke and Malthouse to this line up and we will be a top 4 side next year, not in 10 years time.

Sure we will

[Gigantor]

I'm almost convinced now that our club needs to finally be really aggresive in the post season,and really chase a big name player that can not only contribute to the list but also set the standard

[yellowandback]

if the culture was so bad , we would still be getting the floggings we got under wallace, not constantly loosing close games.

while still not good enough its a step in the right direction.

Yep, pity the irony was lost in the OP