Picks 31, 33 & 42. Any ideas?

[RedanTiger]

Why's that funny? Cameron isn't in charge of picking the kids but as the bloke running the show he would have some input. Contract runs out at the end of this year and I'm betting that the spud will be gawwwn come seasons end

and I'll bet you that he's already had his 5-year contract extended.
It will have happened early this year after all the talk from March about the great advantage there was in the club having stability in their key figures - Gale, Cameron and Hardwick.

[Coach]

You are probably right. Stability doesn't mean anything when you have a confirmed spud in Cameron and an unproven coach. There should be riots if we don't make finals this year

[one-eyed]

cameron said best available when asked the question.

He also left open the option of going for type with any one of these 2nd round picks but the final decision on that would be left to Francis Jackson.

[Smokey]

You are probably right. Stability doesn't mean anything when you have a confirmed spud in Cameron and an unproven coach. There should be riots if we don't make finals this year

So if we make the finals then, the coach will be proven successful and Cameron a confirmed good operator?   

[Coach]

You are probably right. Stability doesn't mean anything when you have a confirmed spud in Cameron and an unproven coach. There should be riots if we don't make finals this year

So if we make the finals then, the coach will be proven successful and Cameron a confirmed good operator?   

No, Cameron will still be a worthless sack of rubbish and Hardwick will have proved he is capable of coaching a side to finals (might still be a dud though like Ratten). Why are you swinging from Helmut's nuts like a monkey?

[Smokey]

You are probably right. Stability doesn't mean anything when you have a confirmed spud in Cameron and an unproven coach. There should be riots if we don't make finals this year

So if we make the finals then, the coach will be proven successful and Cameron a confirmed good operator?   

No, Cameron will still be a worthless sack of rubbish and Hardwick will have proved he is capable of coaching a side to finals (might still be a dud though like Ratten). Why are you swinging from Helmut's nuts like a monkey?

 

Reckon not all the criticism is warranted, that's all.  Bit like FJ.  Some yeah, but the whole club is going through change and growth, and none of them are getting it all right as they learn and adapt.

[Coach]

FJ has done alright. Made some mistakes but has a much better track record than Helmut

[Smokey]

 

Luv that avatar Coach!

[WilliamPowell]

get Matty Rendell

See Rendell's at C'wood now 

[Ruanaidh]

3 mid-fielders thanks

[the claw]

cameron said best available when asked the question.

He also left open the option of going for type with any one of these 2nd round picks but the final decision on that would be left to Francis Jackson.

hmm francis jacksons  picks after the first rnd  leave a lot to be desired.
post is the latest 2nd rnd pick of his to be cut.

while i think both cameron and jackson have improved recruiting and list management to a degree they have both had more than 5 yrs and if i had to asses their performances over all id struggle to give either a pass mark.
we can always do better and imo we need to do better in these areas. im looking for a little more than adequacey at best  in these areas.

[one-eyed]

Kevin 'Shifter' Sheehan has listed his top 30 in alphabetical order.

Tim Broomhead      Tom Clurey       Aidan Corr          Joe Daniher          Dayle Garlett
Taylor Garner       Nick Graham     Brodie Grundy     Nathan Hrovat      Kristian Jaksch
Ben Kennedy    Jesse Lonergan   Jackson Macrae     Sam Mayes           Liam McBean
Tim Membrey       Troy Menzel        Tim O’Brien      Jonathan O’Rourke   Lachie Plowman
Josh Simpson     Jake Stringer     Jimmy Toumpas   Jackson Thurlow        Jack Viney
Nick Vlastuin    Lachie Whitfield     Oliver Wines       Mason Wood        Nathan Wright

http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/2012/shifters-top-30-2012.pdf


Going by the phantom drafts around the net, Jackson Thurlow and Mason Wood are surprise top 30 inclusions while Mason Shaw, Sam Colquhoun and Tanner Smith are not named in Shifter's list.

Altogether you'd presume it's a strong chance that our picks 32 & 34 will be used on the lower ranked kids from this list who slip to the 2nd round. 

[HKTiger]

cameron said best available when asked the question.

He also left open the option of going for type with any one of these 2nd round picks but the final decision on that would be left to Francis Jackson.

hmm francis jacksons  picks after the first rnd  leave a lot to be desired.
post is the latest 2nd rnd pick of his to be cut.

while i think both cameron and jackson have improved recruiting and list management to a degree they have both had more than 5 yrs and if i had to asses their performances over all id struggle to give either a pass mark.
we can always do better and imo we need to do better in these areas. im looking for a little more than adequacey at best  in these areas.

Given that when FJ took over the role in 2006 the RFC had zero data and zero metrics I don't believe that you can judge FJ for another 5 years or so.  If anything the past 6 years are only building the baseline from which you can start making the correct choices.  Much of what Hartley and FJ have done in the past few years is purely defining the measurements, coding points, key stats, KPIs that need to be measured and determine a player's position.  In a recent interview FJ discussed tracking kids for 3 and 4 years before drafting them. 

Well that means any picks before 2010 don't have enough qualitative data, within the RFC, to have been properly evaluated.  The depth and level of the science involved nowadays is quite staggering.

So the fault is not with CC and FJ but with the legacy they inherited that was so poor.  If anything CC should get credit for identifying the issue and building the right structure and team to a) collect all the relevant data, b) build the correct IP (and it would appear that the RFC has some solid IP - Maric, Houli and Grigg say hello) and c) utilise the data and IP to make better draft choices.

Four years of research prior to drafting plus 3 years of being in an AFL system before you can be judged would indicate 7 years minimum before you can fully judge a recruiting team.  Given that when FJ walked in he found a few envelopes with scrawls on the back.  the sum total of the RFC's data and IP in 2005. 

Oooh and some videos of JON.

[Coach]

You cannot tell me that any picks they made prior to 2010 can't be judged because they didn't have all those things you have talked about here and in other posts. These blokes are meant to be professionals and they should know good, young talent when they see it. FJ and others should get credit for their good picks prior to '10 and they should also got judged on their poor choices

"defining the measurements, coding points, key stats, KPIs that need to be measured and determine a player's position."

Maybe I'm old fashioned but it all sounds like a bit of a wank to me. You've talked about that player points rating thing they have in previous posts and it's got me stuffed how you could rate a player based on that. Jake King would surely score poorly. Addam Maric  may be ranked better. Whatever happened to watching the kids play and coming to a decision on who you will target after watching them and analyzing them over a long period of time? I can tell you that Richmond sure as hell weren't in Tassie every weekend watching Jeromey Webberley play in 2009. Because if they were then he would have still been running around at Clarence refusing to go near his opponent for the last 3 years.

What do you do if your research and data etc says Stephen Hill is better than Michael Hurley? I know who I would be picking and no stat or any kind of research would make me think otherwise. That's just from watching both guys very closely. Not sure what my point has even become now, I dunno. I think I'd just be expecting a well paid recruiter (who obviously must know his stuff) to still be able to make good decisions after watching these young guys play for such a long time. His picks prior to 2010 are fair game for everyone to judge, IMO

[HKTiger]

claw was challenging their later pick ability.  I reckon the metric's are key to getting the later picks right.  That was the point I was addressing.  I should have been clearer.

I agree for the top 15/20 (S Hill and Hurley) you don't need that level of detail.  It was blatantly obvious you didn't need it for Cotch.

It's a bit of the Moneyball analysis that gets the "gems" later in the draft or via trade or Free Agency.  The stuff that the Swans and Cats seem to have above others.  But they've been doing bits of this since the mid-90's.  10 extra years of data, expertise and knowledge.  And look how long their recruiter's have been there.