Cotchin's captaincy [merged]

[unplugged]

His game wasn't great on Saturday night because he had 39 touches, it was great because of the way he played the inside role rather standing out the back getting the cheap kicks and dinking them to someone 8 metres away. It was great because of the way he organised others, directed rather standing with hands on hips like he did at the crucial times in round 2. And actually that's what Hodge does even when he is a having a poor day, that's one of the things that makes him a good leader.

Couldn't agree more with that. 

No one questions Cotchin's ability to play football.  He is a massive talent.  That does not make him a good captain.  The expectation of what a captain brings to a game is much more and it needs to be brought every week.

I wouldn't hang my hat as a Richmond supporter on a 39 possession game with a sub 60% efficiency rate against what was essentially a WAFL side.  BUT for the reasons WP pointed out, he had a very good game as captain.  Challenge now is to repeat that consistently against better opposition.  Not the 39 possessions as a few are fixated on but the standard of performance as a leader.

Personally, I think half his problem is the coach, the stupidity of the game plan and his struggle to sell it to his teammates or even understand it himself.  Its a counter-intuitive way of playing football when the players are asked to play against their instincts.  Its not surprising that they crack under pressure when forced to make quick decisions.  There was little pressure on the weekend.

[big tone]

WP, what would you really know about Cotchin as a leader of this footy club? There is more to it than just the two hours you watch every week.

Could ask you the same question 

And yes there is certainly more than the 2 hours on field every week.

I will leave it at that.

And yes I do think you are one of those people that get something in your head and would twist comments to try and suit your argument instead of just saying maybe I got that a bit wrong.

there you go again, saying I am wrong. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I am wrong. You have your opinion which I don't agree with but I have never said you are wrong, we simply don't agree

I have an opinion, and it is my opinion he isn't a great captain. Think he is an outstanding player who was a better player prior to be being captain. that's my opinion, you don't agree and that's absolutely fine.

I want him to be a great captain but being a great captain as I said is more than just stats.

His game wasn't great on Saturday night because he had 39 touches, it was great because of the way he played the inside role rather standing out the back getting the cheap kicks and dinking them to someone 8 metres away. It was great because of the way he organised others, directed rather standing with hands on hips like he did at the crucial times in round 2. And actually that's what Hodge does even when he is a having a poor day, that's one of the things that makes him a good leader.

His game was great the other night with 39 touches, don't kid yourself!
He was clearly best on ground and that had nothing to do with him pointing at players to get into the right positions. I know you were there and I wasn't, yada, yada, yada. The facts are he was BOG and the other games you mentioned he was too or very close to it. And you expecting that to be the "norm" is a really simple way of looking at him as a leader. In your eyes if he plays well he is a good leader but if he doesn't, he has let the side down. In fact if he misses a couple of goals and we lose you say he let the club down. Just because you are captain doesn't mean you are never going to miss sets shots on goal. Even the greats miss goals. 
That's why I said there was more to him as a leader than just the 2 hours of footy HE plays.
I say I think you are wrong because that is my opinion. And like you say everyone is entitled to one. And I think you are wrong.

[Stalin]

His game wasn't great on Saturday night because he had 39 touches, it was great because of the way he played the inside role rather standing out the back getting the cheap kicks and dinking them to someone 8 metres away. It was great because of the way he organised others, directed rather standing with hands on hips like he did at the crucial times in round 2. And actually that's what Hodge does even when he is a having a poor day, that's one of the things that makes him a good leader.

Couldn't agree more with that. 

No one questions Cotchin's ability to play football.  He is a massive talent.  That does not make him a good captain.  The expectation of what a captain brings to a game is much more and it needs to be brought every week.

I wouldn't hang my hat as a Richmond supporter on a 39 possession game with a sub 60% efficiency rate against what was essentially a WAFL side.  BUT for the reasons WP pointed out, he had a very good game as captain.  Challenge now is to repeat that consistently against better opposition.  Not the 39 possessions as a few are fixated on but the standard of performance as a leader.

Personally, I think half his problem is the coach, the stupidity of the game plan and his struggle to sell it to his teammates or even understand it himself.  Its a counter-intuitive way of playing football when the players are asked to play against their instincts.  Its not surprising that they crack under pressure when forced to make quick decisions.  There was little pressure on the weekend.

Do fyfe penders gablett kick at 100% efficiency? I think not

[Dougeytherichmondfan]

His game wasn't great on Saturday night because he had 39 touches, it was great because of the way he played the inside role rather standing out the back getting the cheap kicks and dinking them to someone 8 metres away. It was great because of the way he organised others, directed rather standing with hands on hips like he did at the crucial times in round 2. And actually that's what Hodge does even when he is a having a poor day, that's one of the things that makes him a good leader.

Couldn't agree more with that. 

No one questions Cotchin's ability to play football.  He is a massive talent.  That does not make him a good captain.  The expectation of what a captain brings to a game is much more and it needs to be brought every week.

I wouldn't hang my hat as a Richmond supporter on a 39 possession game with a sub 60% efficiency rate against what was essentially a WAFL side.  BUT for the reasons WP pointed out, he had a very good game as captain.  Challenge now is to repeat that consistently against better opposition.  Not the 39 possessions as a few are fixated on but the standard of performance as a leader.

Personally, I think half his problem is the coach, the stupidity of the game plan and his struggle to sell it to his teammates or even understand it himself.  Its a counter-intuitive way of playing football when the players are asked to play against their instincts.  Its not surprising that they crack under pressure when forced to make quick decisions.  There was little pressure on the weekend.

Do fyfe penders gablett kick at 100% efficiency? I think not

What's their disposal efficiency on dinky sideways kicks in thunderous wet conditions though?

Also, Fyfe isn't a captain, so we can't qualify his possessions against to his ability to lead.

[unplugged]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/chris-yarrans-future-at-the-tigers-in-doubt-20160518-goyehk.html
Tigers chief Brendon Gale strongly denied suggestions Yarran might never play for Richmond.

"My understanding was that he was progressing well through rehab," said Gale.

"He's been working with Trent Cotchin. His return may be indefinite but I certainly wouldn't say he won't be back this year."

Doing a grand job off field as well.  Just ask Yarran.  Oh hang on.  He's not around anymore.

Cotchin is such a great captain....  Its sooo obvious.

Cant wait for his next presser when he gets to mimic Hardwick like a good little pet.

[Chuck17]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/chris-yarrans-future-at-the-tigers-in-doubt-20160518-goyehk.html
Tigers chief Brendon Gale strongly denied suggestions Yarran might never play for Richmond.

"My understanding was that he was progressing well through rehab," said Gale.

"He's been working with Trent Cotchin. His return may be indefinite but I certainly wouldn't say he won't be back this year."

Doing a grand job off field as well.  Just ask Yarran.  Oh hang on.  He's not around anymore.

WTF are you on about now

[Stalin]

His game wasn't great on Saturday night because he had 39 touches, it was great because of the way he played the inside role rather standing out the back getting the cheap kicks and dinking them to someone 8 metres away. It was great because of the way he organised others, directed rather standing with hands on hips like he did at the crucial times in round 2. And actually that's what Hodge does even when he is a having a poor day, that's one of the things that makes him a good leader.

Couldn't agree more with that. 

No one questions Cotchin's ability to play football.  He is a massive talent.  That does not make him a good captain.  The expectation of what a captain brings to a game is much more and it needs to be brought every week.

I wouldn't hang my hat as a Richmond supporter on a 39 possession game with a sub 60% efficiency rate against what was essentially a WAFL side.  BUT for the reasons WP pointed out, he had a very good game as captain.  Challenge now is to repeat that consistently against better opposition.  Not the 39 possessions as a few are fixated on but the standard of performance as a leader.

Personally, I think half his problem is the coach, the stupidity of the game plan and his struggle to sell it to his teammates or even understand it himself.  Its a counter-intuitive way of playing football when the players are asked to play against their instincts.  Its not surprising that they crack under pressure when forced to make quick decisions.  There was little pressure on the weekend.

Do fyfe penders gablett kick at 100% efficiency? I think not

What's their disposal efficiency on dinky sideways kicks in thunderous wet conditions though?

Also, Fyfe isn't a captain, so we can't qualify his possessions against to his ability to lead.

Which captains are a prodigious , forwards kick and have the leadership of Rommel?

Mundy ?
Murphy?
Goddard?
Jones?
Boak?
Mcveigh?

[Dougeytherichmondfan]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/chris-yarrans-future-at-the-tigers-in-doubt-20160518-goyehk.html
Tigers chief Brendon Gale strongly denied suggestions Yarran might never play for Richmond.

"My understanding was that he was progressing well through rehab," said Gale.

"He's been working with Trent Cotchin. His return may be indefinite but I certainly wouldn't say he won't be back this year."

Doing a grand job off field as well.  Just ask Yarran.  Oh hang on.  He's not around anymore.

To echo Chucky, what the actual eff?

[Dougeytherichmondfan]

Which captains are a prodigious , forwards kick and have the leadership of Rommel?

Mundy ?
Murphy?
Goddard?
Jones?
Boak?
Mcveigh?

"If I had take hell, I would use the Australians to take it, and the New Zealanders to hold it."

All those guys are Australian right?

[Stalin]

 

[Stalin]

His game wasn't great on Saturday night because he had 39 touches, it was great because of the way he played the inside role rather standing out the back getting the cheap kicks and dinking them to someone 8 metres away. It was great because of the way he organised others, directed rather standing with hands on hips like he did at the crucial times in round 2. And actually that's what Hodge does even when he is a having a poor day, that's one of the things that makes him a good leader.

Couldn't agree more with that. 

No one questions Cotchin's ability to play football.  He is a massive talent.  That does not make him a good captain.  The expectation of what a captain brings to a game is much more and it needs to be brought every week.

I wouldn't hang my hat as a Richmond supporter on a 39 possession game with a sub 60% efficiency rate against what was essentially a WAFL side.  BUT for the reasons WP pointed out, he had a very good game as captain.  Challenge now is to repeat that consistently against better opposition.  Not the 39 possessions as a few are fixated on but the standard of performance as a leader.

Personally, I think half his problem is the coach, the stupidity of the game plan and his struggle to sell it to his teammates or even understand it himself.  Its a counter-intuitive way of playing football when the players are asked to play against their instincts.  Its not surprising that they crack under pressure when forced to make quick decisions.  There was little pressure on the weekend.

Do fyfe penders gablett kick at 100% efficiency? I think not

What's their disposal efficiency on dinky sideways kicks in thunderous wet conditions though?

Also, Fyfe isn't a captain, so we can't qualify his possessions against to his ability to lead.

Is Cotchin under instruction to kick sideways by th moron coach?

In the pies game were the usually people moaned about cotchins 38 touches - he still gained 500 meters

[lamington]

Which captains are a prodigious , forwards kick and have the leadership of Rommel?

Mundy ?
Murphy?
Goddard?
Jones?
Boak?
Mcveigh?

i actually think Bob Murphy is a great kick. His disposal efficiency is a lot higher than Cotchin's also. Of course Murphy isn't the in and under player that Cotchin is but the release kick from the backline which set s them up which worked really well for them before he got injured.

I think the point is everyone on this forum wants him to recapture his 2012 form. Where he had very punishing handballs forward of centre and he would always find a way to kick the ball like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NOflZ8lanc

I think Cotchin is an amazing player. I will never knock him as a player. However I personally think Lids would make a better captain.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

His game wasn't great on Saturday night because he had 39 touches, it was great because of the way he played the inside role rather standing out the back getting the cheap kicks and dinking them to someone 8 metres away. It was great because of the way he organised others, directed rather standing with hands on hips like he did at the crucial times in round 2. And actually that's what Hodge does even when he is a having a poor day, that's one of the things that makes him a good leader.

Couldn't agree more with that. 

No one questions Cotchin's ability to play football.  He is a massive talent.  That does not make him a good captain.  The expectation of what a captain brings to a game is much more and it needs to be brought every week.

I wouldn't hang my hat as a Richmond supporter on a 39 possession game with a sub 60% efficiency rate against what was essentially a WAFL side.  BUT for the reasons WP pointed out, he had a very good game as captain.  Challenge now is to repeat that consistently against better opposition.  Not the 39 possessions as a few are fixated on but the standard of performance as a leader.

Personally, I think half his problem is the coach, the stupidity of the game plan and his struggle to sell it to his teammates or even understand it himself.  Its a counter-intuitive way of playing football when the players are asked to play against their instincts.  Its not surprising that they crack under pressure when forced to make quick decisions.  There was little pressure on the weekend.

Do fyfe penders gablett kick at 100% efficiency? I think not

What's their disposal efficiency on dinky sideways kicks in thunderous wet conditions though?

Also, Fyfe isn't a captain, so we can't qualify his possessions against to his ability to lead.

Is Cotchin under instruction to kick sideways by th moron coach?

In the pies game were the usually people moaned about cotchins 38 touches - he still gained 500 meters

I think the point is you can gain 500 metres with 38 possessions without kicking the ball long at all. Actually, you don't even have to kick. You only need 38x13 metre handballs. I'd be happier with 28 possessions including long kicks setting up players forward of the ball. The one-two handballs don't so anything for a team trying to score a goal other than give extra stats to the players involved. Every attacking move should be linked to getting a score on the board. Great players get the ball moving by seeking out options that will ultimately lead to a goal. They open up the opposition with their disposals.  Cotch just needs to concentrate on doing that and less on the possession that is a possession for just for the statistician.

[Stalin]

Which captains are a prodigious , forwards kick and have the leadership of Rommel?

Mundy ?
Murphy?
Goddard?
Jones?
Boak?
Mcveigh?

i actually think Bob Murphy is a great kick. His disposal efficiency is a lot higher than Cotchin's also. Of course Murphy isn't the in and under player that Cotchin is but the release kick from the backline which set s them up which worked really well for them before he got injured.

I think the point is everyone on this forum wants him to recapture his 2012 form. Where he had very punishing handballs forward of centre and he would always find a way to kick the ball like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NOflZ8lanc

I think Cotchin is an amazing player. I will never knock him as a player. However I personally think Lids would make a better captain.

Marc Murphy...

bob is a gun but he is old and broken. Chimp may well mature into a good leader too?

bob wasnt that good at cotchin current age

[Stalin]

His game wasn't great on Saturday night because he had 39 touches, it was great because of the way he played the inside role rather standing out the back getting the cheap kicks and dinking them to someone 8 metres away. It was great because of the way he organised others, directed rather standing with hands on hips like he did at the crucial times in round 2. And actually that's what Hodge does even when he is a having a poor day, that's one of the things that makes him a good leader.

Couldn't agree more with that. 

No one questions Cotchin's ability to play football.  He is a massive talent.  That does not make him a good captain.  The expectation of what a captain brings to a game is much more and it needs to be brought every week.

I wouldn't hang my hat as a Richmond supporter on a 39 possession game with a sub 60% efficiency rate against what was essentially a WAFL side.  BUT for the reasons WP pointed out, he had a very good game as captain.  Challenge now is to repeat that consistently against better opposition.  Not the 39 possessions as a few are fixated on but the standard of performance as a leader.

Personally, I think half his problem is the coach, the stupidity of the game plan and his struggle to sell it to his teammates or even understand it himself.  Its a counter-intuitive way of playing football when the players are asked to play against their instincts.  Its not surprising that they crack under pressure when forced to make quick decisions.  There was little pressure on the weekend.

Do fyfe penders gablett kick at 100% efficiency? I think not

What's their disposal efficiency on dinky sideways kicks in thunderous wet conditions though?

Also, Fyfe isn't a captain, so we can't qualify his possessions against to his ability to lead.

Is Cotchin under instruction to kick sideways by th moron coach?

In the pies game were the usually people moaned about cotchins 38 touches - he still gained 500 meters

I think the point is you can gain 500 metres with 38 possessions without kicking the ball long at all. Actually, you don't even have to kick. You only need 38x13 metre handballs. I'd be happier with 28 possessions including long kicks setting up players forward of the ball. The one-two handballs don't so anything for a team trying to score a goal other than give extra stats to the players involved. Every attacking move should be linked to getting a score on the board. Great players get the ball moving by seeking out options that will ultimately lead to a goal. They open up the opposition with their disposals.  Cotch just needs to concentrate on doing that and less on the possession that is a possession for just for the statistician.

I think Cripps who everyone is fawning over is averaging 9 meters per possession

if cotchin is told to kick backwards and sideways then it doesnt really matter what youd prefer