Americans and their guns

[Dougeytherichmondfan]

You realise legit gun owners can still keep there guns? Oh and the fact none of them are the direct cause of mass killings

Its still a legally registered weapon when you walk into a shop and purchase a weapon on the same day.

I believe its a requirement that you're a member of a gun-club for 6 months before you're allowed to own a pistol in Australia. High powered firearms are either illegal or require very stringent background checks and applications.

Guns are weapons, intended for killing. Cars, ladders and all that other crap that was mentioned are not.

My point was simply that increased gun-control measures will save a few lives. Just a few, but there's no opportunity cost. So why not?

[Yeahright]

You realise legit gun owners can still keep there guns? Oh and the fact none of them are the direct cause of mass killings

Its still a legally registered weapon when you walk into a shop and purchase a weapon on the same day.

I believe its a requirement that you're a member of a gun-club for 6 months before you're allowed to own a pistol in Australia. High powered firearms are either illegal or require very stringent background checks and applications.

Guns are weapons, intended for killing. Cars, ladders and all that other crap that was mentioned are not.

My point was simply that increased gun-control measures will save a few lives. Just a few, but there's no opportunity cost. So why not?

I was replying to TFT. I agree with you on this.

[Loui Tufga]

Guns are weapons, intended for killing. Cars, ladders and all that other crap that was mentioned are not.

Yet nationally thousands more people are killed each year from motor vehicles than are with guns but your happy to save few lives from guns over thousands of lives from vehicle accidents??
Are you saying people who are shot with guns are more important than people who die in motor vehicle accidents??

Guns are weapons, intended for killing.

So are knives, should we be registering and restricting access these as well?
my point being where does it end??

I believe its a requirement that you're a member of a gun-club for 6 months before you're allowed to own a pistol in Australia.

Close, you have to be a member of a pistol club for minimum of 6 month before you can apply for a provisional licence which has to be served for no less than a further 6 months and no longer than 12 months before you can apply for a full licence which is required to purchase a handgun.

High powered firearms are either illegal or require very stringent background checks and applications.

High Powered Firearms! Wow that sounds super scary!! I'd be interested to hear what your definition of a High Powered Firearm is and why Very Stringent Background Checks should be required??

My point was simply that increased gun-control measures will save a few lives. Just a few, but there's no opportunity cost. So why not?

So Why Not you ask?? Why not because the current gun control measures we already have in place don't work, so how is increasing them going to help??
Again increasing gun control simply impacts and discriminates against 400,000 law abiding licenced firearm owners in Australia and has no impact what so ever on those wishing to use firearms for crime!
To put it into some perspective for you I'll use car enthusiasts as an example......

Say there is suddenly a spate of bank robbery's and the robbers are using cars with High Powered V8 engines to make there get away. During many of the pursuits many pedestrians are mowed down and killed and the police are at a loss as what to do because the cars the criminals are using are to fast to catch.
So they come up with a kneejerk reaction and place a whole bunch of new laws for people to own cars with High Powered V8 engines.

Firstly they deem any vehicle over 6 liters is way to fast and way to powerful so these cars will be banned completely.
They then offer a car buy back system for those who own this now completely illegal car, payment is given on a pre determined value and the ancestral history and heritage of the car has nothing to do with the price determined. You will be required hand your vehicle in to the local police station within 4 weeks of the new ban being announced.

Then you will need to apply for the new High Powered Motor Vehicle licence.
This will include applying to do the two day High Powered motor vehicle safety course which is only run a couple of times a month and may be booked out for several months in advance.
Upon completion of the course you'll need to fill out the 6 page licence application, have it signed and witnessed by a J.P then submit it with your High Powered motor vehicle safety course certificate (If you Passed). You have already been told at the course that the police wont even look at it until the 30 day cooling off period has expired and even then it may take 1 to 2 weeks before you find out you application was successful.

Now you have your licence its time to get your vehicle re registered but first you have to make sure it complies with the new Restrictions that are now being applied to All High Powered Vehicles under 6 liters. 

Firstly the cars standard fuel tank will have to be modified from the original 60 liters to a maximum of ten liters. This will make sure if anyone wants to try and out run the police again they wont get far before having to stop and refuel.
The car must be safely stored in a locked garage with the fuel tank empty at all times, fuel must not be stored in the same room as the vehicle and will need to kept in an additional locked container separately from the Vehicle. You will also be at the mercy of random police inspections where the police can rock up unannounced anytime day or night to make sure you are complying with the full storage rules. Any breach of the rule will see your car confiscated and your High Powered Motor Vehicle licence being revoked, you will also face criminal charges for not complying laws.

The car has now been modified with the new restrictions to make it legal again, its been re registered and now the registration falls under the High Powered motor vehicle category.
A category that sits on a separate database at your states police center, a data base that not only shows your car but the cars of 100,000 other High Powered Motor vehicle licence holders all with there independent storage addresses and owners details.

So what happens next?? The spate of Bank robbery's automatically stop right? Well they should, all the High powered cars are now accounted for, the ones that are no longer on the roads have been handed in and have been destroyed. Suddenly the all the nations bank tellers can feel safe going to work, the pedestrians can safely cross the street again without out the fear of being run down by a High Powered Motor Vehicle!
O.k so the motor vehicle enthusiast who only really had his car to do a little Sunday touring or was only hanging onto it because it was his grandfathers pride and joy has only been slightly put out, financially its only cost him around 5k all up to do the course, pay for his licence, have the garage upgraded to meet storage standards and to sort the slight modifications out on his Vehicle but that's ok because at the end of the day at least he got to keep it right!

Well the Bank robbery's do stop for a while but suddenly they start back up again as if nothing ever happened, this also happens to coincide with Customs busting open a couple of container loads of supercharged 8 liter engines that didn't slip through the net and a spate of High Powered car thefts from not random property's but from area clusters all being hit within in days of each other as if someone some how new exactly the types of cars and exactly where all these cars are being stored! Its not as if though all this information has been compiled and put together on a single database, hang on.....The police data base is complete hack proof right? and there is absolutely no such thing as police corruption in this day and age!!

Sooooo My point being you can put all the restrictions in the world on anything you like but unfortunately it will never stop those who wish to disobey the laws, it only hurts the law abiding citizens who jump through the hoops and go through all the red tape to make sure its not because of them that they lose the one thing in life they love doing. 




 

[Penelope]

there is no restrictions on the calibre ( or power for the uneducated) of rifles anyway.

the restrictions are on semi automatic rifles and pump action shotguns.

pointless really.

pump action rifles are still legal. with a higher powered rifle, you can have another cartridge in the breech by the time you have bought the gun back into position after the recoil. practice enough and you are pretty close with a bolt action.

I was talking to a bloke who guides for safari hunting the other day. he uses a double barrelled rifle for back up for his clients.

He said how such a rifle was no good for most shooters as they didnt have to organise themselves for their second shot, unlike a bolt action rifle. The tendency was to fire the next shot willy nilly particularly under stress; a bolt action forces you to go through a process, and therefore more likely to be more efficient with multiple shots

It was something i had never considered, and a semi auto would be the same. This conversation was not about gun control (of the legal type, anyway) in any way at all, just a general conversation re guns and hunting.

[Yeahright]

I thought this was about Americans?

[Penelope]

gun control is probably the subject at the heart of the matter, though.

[Loui Tufga]

I thought this was about Americans?

Dougeys lack of knowage in this area seems to be confusing things a little.
From what a can work out Dougey is saying That by introducing a gun register in the States it will stop people mudering each other.
The point I'm trying to make is Australia has the toughest gun laws in the word yet gun related crime is still on the increase in this country.
Registering firearms is not the answer as Canada just worked out when they recently abolished there registry that had been in place since 1998 because I quote “We simply don’t need another very expensive and not-effective registry,”.
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/canada/2015/03/27/ottawa-can-destroy-quebec-gun-registry-high-court-says.html

The answer is not punishing those who are doing the right thing which is exactly what a gun register does but there is plenty of merrit in hitting hard those who choose to do the wrong thing by increasing punishment for those wish to flaunt the law.

[Dougeytherichmondfan]

I thought this was about Americans?

Dougeys lack of knowage in this area seems to be confusing things a little.
From what a can work out Dougey is saying That by introducing a gun register in the States it will stop people mudering each other.
The point I'm trying to make is Australia has the toughest gun laws in the word yet gun related crime is still on the increase in this country.
Registering firearms is not the answer as Canada just worked out when they recently abolished there registry that had been in place since 1998 because I quote “We simply don’t need another very expensive and not-effective registry,”.
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/canada/2015/03/27/ottawa-can-destroy-quebec-gun-registry-high-court-says.html

The answer is not punishing those who are doing the right thing which is exactly what a gun register does but there is plenty of merrit in hitting hard those who choose to do the wrong thing by increasing punishment for those wish to flaunt the law.

No pal, I've stated all along that it won't have a large impact on reducing homicide. My point is that if you introduce a stricter gun register and purchase process SOME PEOPLE, A SMALL AMOUNT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT KILLED!!!!!! And for what price? NOTHING! Where is the opportunity cost? So why not do it?

I think you're missing the point here toting the "I'm a law abiding citizen so why punish me" line that makes me want to throw up.

Knives are NOT used solely for the purpose of ending another beings life. Cars are NOT used solely for this purpose. Ladders arn't either.

stuffing GUNS ARE!!!

What demented line of crap are you trumpeting that stands to decirn that any human being has the 'right and entitlement' to carry a weapon that can kill a fellow human being? That's the argument that you're putting forward.

The only reason we have to legalise this process is simply to prevent the black market from totally controlling the gun markets and strengthening criminal cartels. Not like the yanks haven't tried this before (re: Prohibition in the 20's).

As for that last totally misguided and under researched statement, any criminologist anywhere at any point EVER will state categorically that increases of punishments to crimes that essentially target poorer, working class sections of society prove only to increase penal pressures and stress our completely outdated penal systems anyway, but completely fail in deterring the crimes from actually being committed. After all, its poor people shooting other poor people so who gives a shyte?

[Loui Tufga]

I thought this was about Americans?

Dougeys lack of knowage in this area seems to be confusing things a little.
From what a can work out Dougey is saying That by introducing a gun register in the States it will stop people mudering each other.
The point I'm trying to make is Australia has the toughest gun laws in the word yet gun related crime is still on the increase in this country.
Registering firearms is not the answer as Canada just worked out when they recently abolished there registry that had been in place since 1998 because I quote “We simply don’t need another very expensive and not-effective registry,”.
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/canada/2015/03/27/ottawa-can-destroy-quebec-gun-registry-high-court-says.html

The answer is not punishing those who are doing the right thing which is exactly what a gun register does but there is plenty of merrit in hitting hard those who choose to do the wrong thing by increasing punishment for those wish to flaunt the law.

Knives are NOT used solely for the purpose of ending another beings life. Cars are NOT used solely for this purpose. Ladders arn't either.

stuffING GUNS ARE!!!

This is where you have it compleatly wrong and if you think guns are soley used to end another beings life then it just goes to show how miss guided your are on this subject.
The above statement is meadia propeganda at its finest.
If the above statement is the case then wouldn't you think that guns would be compleatly banned? Oh that's right, we can't compkeatly ban them because God forbid we let the black market have compleat control 
Don't you realize that the black market already have compleat control of ILLEGAL firearms in this country? The same illegal firearms that was easily obtained and used by Man Monis who was not only on the terrorist watch list but was also out on bail!
The same illegal firearms that was easialy obtained by a 12 year old boy and used to shot a police worker at a Sydney police station.
The same illegal Macine gun that was used to for 20 odd rounds in to cars and a house in a quiet suburban street this week.
Do you see's pattern forming here??

Meanwhile Joeblogs up the road who used to enjoy heading to his local gun club on a Sunday to fire a few rounds at clay targets (shock horror! There is another purpose for a gun other than killing ) hast to jump through all the hoops and red tape to do somthing he has done all his life all because of minority few.

You keep going on about cars arnt designed to kill people yet you keep looking past the point that they do and not just one or two people but thousands! Thousands more than guns do. While cars were never designed to kill people there is a point that car does become a weapon! The minute you choose to exceed the speed limit the car becomes a weapon, the minute you get behind the wheel with a blood alcahol reading above .05 the car becomes a weapon, the minute you get behind the wheel as high as a kite the car becomes a weapon. Again I ask is a persons life that is taken with a firearm more important than slide taken with a motor vehicle?
I wouldn't have thought so yet your argument is to try to save a few lives from firearm deaths because firearms are an easy target, because the word gun scares the hell out of everyone because the misinformed and uneducated are led to believe that the only use for a gun is to kill somthing (please read you quote above) if you want to believe this then that's your right but believing that is basically saying that the 400,000 licensed gun owners in Australia only own a gun because they have the intention to kill someone? Does that realy sound right to you??
It doesn't sound right because it's not right, facts are guns are used for many things other than killing people just like knives

And lastly I say guns are an easy target because they are, you clearly arnt a gun owner and judging by your comments you have never been around a gun in you life so for you it's easy to say "let's putmore restrictions on firearms" or "let's just ban them all together" it doesn't affect you, you haven't hand will never have an affiliation witha firearm so why would you be bothered by further restrictions??

Lets put the shoe on the other foot and again I'm going to use Motor vehicles as an analogy if the road toll was to suddenly spike and the main reason for this was speed how would you feel if the government suddenly cut the speed limit to 60 on open roads and 25 in suburban streets?
Would you feel vindicated that you have to adhere to these new laws even though you have a squeaky clean record and have never speed in you life? And further more do you think these new laws will stop people from speeding?
How would that impact on you personally?

[Stalin]

guns are important

t0 protect one self from police state

[Stalin]

case-in-point

Dystopian truth is stranger than dystopian fiction.

In New York City, the police now maintain an unknown number of military-grade vans outfitted with X-ray radiation, enabling cops to look through the walls of buildings or the sides of trucks. The technology was used in Afghanistan before being loosed on U.S. streets. Each X-ray van costs an estimated $729,000 to $825,000.

The NYPD will not reveal when, where, or how often they are used.

“I will not talk about anything at all about this,” New York Police Commissioner Bill Bratton told a journalist for the New York Post who pressed for details on the vans. “It falls into the range of security and counter-terrorism activity that we engage in.”

He added that “they’re not used to scan people for weapons.”

Here are some specific questions that New York City refuses to answer:

How is the NYPD ensuring that innocent New Yorkers are not subject to harmful X-ray radiation?
How long is the NYPD keeping the images that it takes and who can look at them?
Is the NYPD obtaining judicial authorization prior to taking images, and if so, what type of authorization?
Is the technology funded by taxpayer money, and has the use of the vans justified the price tag?
Those specifics are taken from a New York Civil Liberties Union court filing. The legal organization is seeking to assist a lawsuit filed by Pro Publica journalist Michael Grabell, who has been fighting New York City for answers about X-ray vans for 3 years.

“ProPublica filed the request as part of its investigation into the proliferation of security equipment, including airport body scanners, that expose people to ionizing radiation, which can mutate DNA and increase the risk of cancer,” he explained. (For fear of a terrorist “dirty bomb,” America’s security apparatus is exposing its population to radiation as a matter of course.)

A state court has already ruled that the NYPD has to turn over policies, procedures, and training manuals that shape uses of X-rays; reports on past deployments; information on the costs of the X-ray devices and the number of vans purchased; and information on the health and safety effects of the technology. But New York City is fighting on appeal to suppress that information and more, as if it is some kind of spy agency rather than a municipal police department operating on domestic soil, ostensibly at the pleasure of city residents.

Its insistence on extreme secrecy is part of an alarming trend. The people of New York City are effectively being denied the ability to decide how they want to be policed.

“Technologies––from x-ray scanners to drones, automatic license plate readers that record license plates of cars passing by, and ‘Stingrays’ that spy on nearby cell phones by imitating cell phone towers—have brought rapid advances to law enforcement capacity to monitor citizens,” the NYCLU notes. “Some of these new technologies have filtered in from the battlefields into the hands of local law enforcement with little notice to the public and with little oversight. These technologies raise legitimate questions about cost, effectiveness, and the impact on the rights of everyday people to live in a society free of unwarranted government surveillance.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/the-nypd-is-using-mobile-x-rays-to-spy-on-unknown-targets/411181/?single_page=true

[Stalin]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3282006/Incredible-moment-Russian-fighter-jet-passes-American-MQ-9-Reaper-drone-skies-Syria.html

[🏅Dooks]

The Oregon slaughter of 10 people brings the total of mass shootings in the US this year - in which four or more people are killed or injured by gunfire - to 294. There have been only 274 days this year.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/oregon-shooting-274-days-and-294-mass-shootings-in-us-this-year-20151001-gjzl9c.html#ixzz3nRFPKGun

At that rate, 91 days left in the year and at least another 91 Americans are soon dead but don't know it yet, Women, Men, children. Unwilling to stop it through the political system. Idiots

thank god for gun laws in Australia.

Bump

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html

[Yeahright]

Yeah but changing the gun laws won't do anything

[🏅Dooks]

Yeah but changing the gun laws won't do anything

It wasn't the righteous AK 47s or hundreds of freedom bullets that killed all those innocent, it was the hellish thoughts and feelings of the perpetrators