Nutrition and Health

[Ruanaidh]

I quoted a couple of Health/Nutrition based Documentaries in a Football related thread recently but on reflection thought that they (and other related items) should have a home of their own....so here it is.

And here are the doco's in question:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cywtq

Relates to genetic fitness potential and limits

The second is based on the "Eat Stop Eat' program (which I follow):  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lxyzc

It has reduced my cholesterol and sugar levels where everything else failed. Weight was never an issue for me but if you want to lose some it will do that to. I lost 10% (9kg's)whilst gorging myself on the non-fasting days (5 per week).

[Penelope]

High cholesterol is a made up disease, which causes undue stress and grief, while filling the coffers of big pharma, at all of our expense.

considering the dietary advice given in relation to this is simply wrong, it is no surprise that yourself, like many others, could not lower your cholesterol levels without taking drugs. It is also no coincidence that lowering your cholesterol levels also coincided with getting your blood sugar levels under control.

Pfizer, the manufacturer or the original and most prescribed statin, (which is called *Lipitor), is actually getting out of the cholesterol drug game and concentrating on drugs for diabetes, a real disease, which will be a huge cash cow as no one will bother to prevent this preventable, yet ever increasing disease.

*if i typed this name just after the word statin in this sentence i would get a forbidden on this server error

[Ruanaidh]

High cholesterol is a made up disease, which causes undue stress and grief, while filling the coffers of big pharma, at all of our expense.

considering the dietary advice given in relation to this is simply wrong, it is no surprise that yourself, like many others, could not lower your cholesterol levels without taking drugs. It is also no coincidence that lowering your cholesterol levels also coincided with getting your blood sugar levels under control.

Pfizer, the manufacturer or the original and most prescribed statin, (which is called *Lipitor), is actually getting out of the cholesterol drug game and concentrating on drugs for diabetes, a real disease, which will be a huge cash cow as no one will bother to prevent this preventable, yet ever increasing disease.

*if i typed this name just after the word statin in this sentence i would get a forbidden on this server error

Agree with all of the above. BTW the subject in the 'Eat Stop Eat' related doco' started his journey because he was worried about the pre-diabetic state he was in danger of entering. In my case I was advised to consider Statins by my GP. Instead I began intermittent fasting and adopted a light cardio exercise regime that incorporates morning and evening workouts. After a short period of time I have achieved the results I am happy with : Ch - 6  SL: 5

A side effect of the fasting has also seen me drift away from carbs such as breads and pasta's. Don't ask me why.

[Yeahright]

High cholesterol is a made up disease, which causes undue stress and grief, while filling the coffers of big pharma, at all of our expense.

considering the dietary advice given in relation to this is simply wrong, it is no surprise that yourself, like many others, could not lower your cholesterol levels without taking drugs. It is also no coincidence that lowering your cholesterol levels also coincided with getting your blood sugar levels under control.

Pfizer, the manufacturer or the original and most prescribed statin, (which is called *Lipitor), is actually getting out of the cholesterol drug game and concentrating on drugs for diabetes, a real disease, which will be a huge cash cow as no one will bother to prevent this preventable, yet ever increasing disease.

*if i typed this name just after the word statin in this sentence i would get a forbidden on this server error

Hows it made up? 

[Gigantor]

Al why is cholesterol a made up disease?...when was this announced?

[Penelope]

it was never announced, and it probably never will be. if there ever is an official move away from the notion that high cholesterol causes heart disease it will be a gradual thing rather than any admission they were wrong.

High cholesterol does have a moderate association with heart attacks, but it doesn't cause it. in some cases it may be an indicator of an underlying problem but it doesn't cause it.

The key here is understanding the difference between causal and a simple association. The funny thing is the medical community, or a large percentage of it, disregard this when the discussion is about high cholesterol and heart disease, yet are quick to jump on it when the discussion turns to low cholesterol and cancer.

happy to go into further details, but it gets technical, requires a claw lenght post (and some) and Im stuffed from footy and half peeed, so thats for later, if people wish.

In the meantime, a challenge, one i have put forward many, many times, and has never been met.

Can anyone provide real evidence that high cholesterol actually causes heart disease.

I bet no one can!

[Francois Jackson]

it was never announced, and it probably never will be. if there ever is an official move away from the notion that high cholesterol causes heart disease it will be a gradual thing rather than any admission they were wrong.

High cholesterol does have a moderate association with heart attacks, but it doesn't cause it. in some cases it may be an indicator of an underlying problem but it doesn't cause it.

The key here is understanding the difference between causal and a simple association. The funny thing is the medical community, or a large percentage of it, disregard this when the discussion is about high cholesterol and heart disease, yet are quick to jump on it when the discussion turns to low cholesterol and cancer.

happy to go into further details, but it gets technical, requires a claw lenght post (and some) and Im stuffed from footy and half peeed, so thats for later, if people wish.

In the meantime, a challenge, one i have put forward many, many times, and has never been met.

Can anyone provide real evidence that high cholesterol actually causes heart disease.

I bet no one can!

can anyone prove it doesnt?

Lets be serious it cant be good for the ticker can it.

I lowered mine from 7.5 to 6 without exercising one bit. In fact i did more when my cholestral was high

 All i did was stop smoking.

[Yeahright]

it was never announced, and it probably never will be. if there ever is an official move away from the notion that high cholesterol causes heart disease it will be a gradual thing rather than any admission they were wrong.

High cholesterol does have a moderate association with heart attacks, but it doesn't cause it. in some cases it may be an indicator of an underlying problem but it doesn't cause it.

The key here is understanding the difference between causal and a simple association. The funny thing is the medical community, or a large percentage of it, disregard this when the discussion is about high cholesterol and heart disease, yet are quick to jump on it when the discussion turns to low cholesterol and cancer.

happy to go into further details, but it gets technical, requires a claw lenght post (and some) and Im stuffed from footy and half peeed, so thats for later, if people wish.

In the meantime, a challenge, one i have put forward many, many times, and has never been met.

Can anyone provide real evidence that high cholesterol actually causes heart disease.

I bet no one can!

I'd like to hear it when you get the chance 

[Penelope]

can anyone prove it doesnt?

I can put forward a pretty good argument that it doesnt, but as i said it is long winded and technical. happy to do so when i have the time. I used to have a website that explained it all, but it was hacked and destroyed.

Lets be serious it cant be good for the ticker can it.

care to explain why not?

All i did was stop smoking.

thats all you did? you did one of the most beneficial things you can do for your health. Considering the repair role that cholesterol plays in your body, it is only to be expected that your cholesterol will drop once you stop poisoning it.

Its like saying that once i stopped cutting myself i stopped getting scars

[Yeahright]

can anyone prove it doesnt?

I can put forward a pretty good argument that it doesnt, but as i said it is long winded and technical. happy to do so when i have the time. I used to have a website that explained it all, but it was hacked and destroyed.

Lets be serious it cant be good for the ticker can it.

care to explain why not?

All i did was stop smoking.

thats all you did? you did one of the most beneficial things you can do for your health. Considering the repair role that cholesterol plays in your body, it is only to be expected that your cholesterol will drop once you stop poisoning it.

Its like saying that once i stopped cutting myself i stopped getting scars

The repairing cholesterol is high density whereas the build up from smoking is low, so your explanation is a bit off..

[Ruanaidh]

Anyone taking supplements? The only 2 I have at the moment is a multi-vitamin and a once a day Krill Oil capsule ( for the astaxanthin therein).

[Chuck17]

Anyone taking supplements? The only 2 I have at the moment is a multi-vitamin and a once a day Krill Oil capsule ( for the astaxanthin therein).

Yeh a bottle of red every Friday night

[Penelope]

can anyone prove it doesnt?

I can put forward a pretty good argument that it doesnt, but as i said it is long winded and technical. happy to do so when i have the time. I used to have a website that explained it all, but it was hacked and destroyed.

Lets be serious it cant be good for the ticker can it.

care to explain why not?

All i did was stop smoking.

thats all you did? you did one of the most beneficial things you can do for your health. Considering the repair role that cholesterol plays in your body, it is only to be expected that your cholesterol will drop once you stop poisoning it.

Its like saying that once i stopped cutting myself i stopped getting scars

The repairing cholesterol is high density whereas the build up from smoking is low, so your explanation is a bit off..

actually there is only one type of cholesterol, and that is cholesterol.

High density and low density actually refers to Lipoproteins. HDL is a high densty lipoprotein, etc.  There are also Intermediate Lipoproteins and Very Low Density Lipoproteins. You see, this is where the smoke and mirrors starts, HDL and LDL are not actually cholesterol, they are the things that transport cholesterol (and fat)around your body.

In a nutshell they start of as Very Low Density lipoproteins and they transport Cholesterol and fat around the body and deliver them where they are needed. this is done only be means of specific receptors. Fat or cholesterol cannot be dumped from lipoproteins willy nilly, and if they were, they would not even stick to the endothelium, the "non stick" inner lining of our arteries.

a VLDL will have mainly tryglycerides (fatty acids or fat in simple terms) and cholesterol. the fatty acids will be delivered to cells that require energy, or stored as fat in the body.

as it loses these fatty acids it becomes an Intermediate density lipoprotein.

at this stage it can actually be reabsorbed by the liver and i believe this to be crucial, but noone seems to know what determines whether it is reabsorbed, or whether it continues on its delivery run.

as it continues to loose the tryglycerides (and the "key" that would have allowed it to be reabsorbed by the liver)  it now becomes an LDL, , containing mainly cholesterol and some fat. It's purpose is to deliver cholesterol and fat soluble vitamins to cells that require it.

A HDL is a different cat. it circulates around exchanging "keys" that lock into receptors with the VLDs/IDLs/LDLs , as well as scavenging used cholesterol from cell walls and returning it to the liver to be reprocessed.

Now for cholesterol to end up in our arteries, we first need something to damage the endothelium, the body then starts a repair process. This is when so called arterial plaque is formed.These arterial plaques are basically scar tissue. Of the eight stages of this plaque formation, cholesterol and fat appear at stage 6 (now that hardly be the cause of the problem, can it?).

One thing known to damage the endothelium is nicotine. So when Daniel stopped smoking, he reduced the amount of damage done to his arteries, amongst other things. He therefore reduced his body's need for cholesterol, so his LDL dropped accordingly. (this would be due to reduced damage to cells all through the body, not just in the arteries.)

[dwaino]

Al, you seem like a pro on the topic so I'm wondering if you could try and put something into really daft terms for me.

I'm a pescetarian and while not entirely strict, try to limit the consumption of animals products where not necessary. One of them for example is a margarine called Nuttelex. I've been doing some reading on hydrogenated oils and how they're not really that good for you, and then whatever I read starts going into things like poly and monosaturated fats, LDL, crap like that. All I can understand is that the reasoning behind adding hydrogenated oils is that because the non-animal fats and oils used in things like spreads are usually liquid at room temperature so they add hydrogen so they solidify. It's kind of disturbing that this makes the product one molecule away from being plastic and takes an alarmingly long time to break down. I know anyone can argue that O2 oxygen is one molecule away from O3 ozone, but we're talking about something that's natural to some sort of chemical poo storm we're sticking in our bodies.

I've found another marge called Omegablend that doesn't contain hydrogenated oils or palm oils (another reason I want to get away from Nuttelex... I'm all for ethical eating when I can  ) but it's expensive and only available from health sort of supermarkets. But if you can clear it up a bit I may not need to switch.


Still, all this processing and manufactured crap that they're feeding everyone can't be all good in the long run. A lot of my mates are gluten free, and raw vegans, and while it's too much for me, it's definitely interesting to learn about the horrible junk going into everything processed. Nothing like cooking up some good grub from scratch. Me and the missus regularly make our own pestos and pasta sauces (often 100% from stuff we grow out the back), burger patties, falafels, salsas, etc etc, and it's amazing how good you feel getting more natural ingredients into you.

[Penelope]

dwaino, it is my belief that vegetables are eaten by what i eat 

personally, though, i will not eat margarine or any any proceesed oil if i can help it. i try to stick to animal fats or cold processed vegetable oils

hydrogenation of oils is as you say,  basically to get them to behave like saturated fats which are solid at room temperature. I believe that partially hydronated, or trans fats are worse. your body will use these just like saturated fats, but the problem is that cells manufactured with them become insulin resistant. whether this is the same for fully hydrogenated or not i am unsure.

basically the less processed what you eat the better off you are.

have you looked into coconut oil?