Must Recruit Two of These

[Smokey]

Sorry but I don't think Thomas is not worth $700k a year and neither is Leunenberger IMO and to get him that's the sort of $$$ it will take = big $$$.

I agree on Thomas WP, not worth it and don't want him anyway but Leuenberger is worth it and we should chase him at that price inho.  The difference it made when we got Maric as an upgrade on Graham was stark and I reckon we still have the same level to go with an upgrade on Maric.  I don't want to get rid of Maric but I think hindsight will show him to be average and run of the mill rather than being A Grade and capable of influencing final games.  I believe Leuenberger is and will, and I reckon we still have enough room in our salary cap to make a play for him - remember that the club has front-loaded some of the bigger contracts to allow for some Free Agency action.  Maric should be our #2 ruckman but still playing in the same team (an old chestnut of mine for another day)!   

[big tone]

It would be irresponsible not to look at free agents because we hope Darrou, Mcintosh, McBean etc become good players. I would rather recruit good players that walk into our 22, delist duds and keep our good kids. If they're good enough they will get a game. If they're not, they won't. The worst thing is when you have poor players playing senior football while a good kid is at Coburg. If it's a good player keeping a kid out then that's good for the kid and good for the club.

Actually agree with you Coach

But the problem is as we all know the duds don't get de-listed we keep them and we cast off kids who haven't been given an opportunity. Kids ripping it up at Coubrg are getting an opportunity now when they should be so what hope do they have if bring in multiple Free Agents on massive money

BTW I am not saying don't go after Free Agents, we've done well with it so far.

What I don't want to see us going into bidding wars and playing overs for blokes who are not or may not be wothh it.

You are a good tiger man WP but you seriously live in fairy land.
The thing about FA is it is a free whack! They dont cost you a draft pick, so you can still draft and develop young talent and all you have to do is find the money for them. (EG get rid of Jackson and McGaune and you can have a Frawley, get rid of Nahas, White and Astbury and you have a Leunenberger) Leaving more spots on the list for young kids.

But big tone you like Coach have hightlighted part of the issue we as a club have. Your simple solutuion is to get rid of the "duds, list cloggers" or whatever you want to call them. Our problem is we don't git rid of them, just look at who's still there that shouldn't be, we flick kids rather than those who have had more chances than I've had meat pies

You also said all we have to do is find the money to lure this "big fish", where do we find it? How do we find it outside trading away a gun player? Which me ask how is FA a free "whack" if you have trade away an A grader to make room for them?

Sorry but I don't think Thomas is not worth $700k a year and neither is Leunenberger IMO and to get him that's the sort of $$$ it will take = big $$$.

If we are not up in the GF contention talks in two year WP will we ever be mate?

WAT our first goal must be to get to finals and stay there for an extended period of time. I don't want one finals series and disappear for another decade because the Club thinks we are closer than what we are. Reality is the longer you are in the finals race the more chance you have of winning the big one.

I would think by the end of 2014 our window will be wide open for the next 5 if we recruit, develop and continue with a program that has players wanting to be part of our success rather than having blokes lobbing on the doorstep only because Punt Road is the place where they can earn the highest quid

So you have all the confidence in the world in our drafting department at tigerland to have recruited what we need to go forward but no confidence in our list management people to weed out the duds?

Who are these kids (which were not duds) we have gotten rid of in place of keeping these meat pie types?? Do tell

And lastly, I'm pretty sure in my post I gave a few examples of how to free up money for FA prospects. Delisting Nahas, McGaune, Astbury, Jackson and White would free up $1.2 Mil.
Not sure how you think I was giving away A graders??

[WilliamPowell]

Would suggest you read what I said about FA. I said and I'll repeat it again for you I am not against Free Agency what I man against is getting not bidding wars and paying overs for players who are not or might not be worth it. What is being suggested is we go after 2 blokes who would cost in excess of $1.5 mil a year. What I am saying I am not sure that its the right way to go at the expense f cutting kids who haven't been given opportunity

All those players you listed outside Astbury & Nahas were given deals for this season. If we really wanted too we could of got rid of them but we didnt.

 And do you really think they are going to flick Jackson, they haven't yet, he continues to get games despite being a ball butcher and so I think it's fair to say he won't be going anywhere. And I'd also say he is on decent coin as well.

You said you've freed up $1.2mil with all your de- listings but how much of that is going to be needed to keep and pay Cotchin, Deledio, Martin, Reiwoldt and going forward in 1-2 seasons time Vlaustin, Conca, Ellis, etc?

We have what is it 15 blokes coming out of contract some of those rightly are going to get increases. Not quite sure how we are going to keep all the ones we need to, chase people wanting big $$$ under free agency and stay under the salary cap without needing to off load 1 or 2

And yeah I have confidence in our recruiting dept and I also have confidence in our list management group that they will get the balance right

[big tone]

Would suggest you read what I said about FA. I said and I'll repeat it again for you I am not against Free Agency what I man against is getting not bidding wars and paying overs for players who are not or might not be worth it. What is being suggested is we go after 2 blokes who would cost in excess of $1.5 mil a year. What I am saying I am not sure that its the right way to go at the expense f cutting kids who haven't been given opportunity

All those players you listed outside Astbury & Nahas were given deals for this season. If we really wanted too we could of got rid of them but we didnt.

 And do you really think they are going to flick Jackson, they haven't yet, he continues to get games despite being a ball butcher and so I think it's fair to say he won't be going anywhere. And I'd also say he is on decent coin as well.

You said you've freed up $1.2mil with all your de- listings but how much of that is going to be needed to keep and pay Cotchin, Deledio, Martin, Reiwoldt and going forward in 1-2 seasons time Vlaustin, Conca, Ellis, etc?

We have what is it 15 blokes coming out of contract some of those rightly are going to get increases. Not quite sure how we are going to keep all the ones we need to, chase people wanting big $$$ under free agency and stay under the salary cap without needing to off load 1 or 2

And yeah I have confidence in our recruiting dept and I also have confidence in our list management group that they will get the balance right

Let's be honest, we have four very good players, the rest are soldiers at best..if we cannot afford a few more elite players, we are doing something wrong. Pretty simple. All the other crap you want to go on about is just that, crap.
Geelong, Collingwood and Sydney seem to be able to manage it.
Can not be bother talking about it anymore to people that just want to play it safe, and hope for the best. Good luck to ya 
And yeah, one post you say we get rid of kids before giving them a go and keep meat pie types, and the next post you have confidence in our list management group, which is it!

[WilliamPowell]

Can have confidence in both IMV

And just because my opinion differs with your doesn't means it is crap

Again you use Geelong, Geelong has not gone out and targeted free agents wanting big $$$ they have developed their own, created a culture where there players outside greedy Junior Ablett have taken reduced $$$ to stick together. That is the model all clubs should aspire too. WHy because it works

If wanting to model a club on the culture and program of Geelong is playing it safe then I will wear that.

[RedanTiger]

At the moment we have some real problems.

Chaplin is doing about what was seriously expected by people that had seen him play at Port - a very solid third tall who could sometimes play on a key forward in a crisis.
McGuane is doing about all that one would expect. Playing as a third tall and picking up a goal or two from his usual 10/15 kicks a game with a couple of marks.
Rance is playing at about 60% compared to the past few years. Lack of confidence and support is a huge problem.
Vickery is going at about 70%, failing to impose himself forward and doing even less in the ruck.
Riewoldt is playing at about 80% and probably is only performing that well due to outstanding smarts sneaking goals.
Grimes is really only a third tall at a stretch and injuries are a big concern.
Griffiths is showing the lack of ability to impose himself on games that was mooted as a problem before drafting.
Elton is in  a similar place and whether he will improve to AFL standard is doubtful at this stage.
Maric is seriously injured and it is doubtful whether he will return to the level he showed pre-injury early in 2012.
Derickx is very unlikely to ever demonstrate the required ability to play AFL with poor athletic or football ability.
Stephenson is in a similar boat and at his age is unlikely to be re-signed although stranger thing3s have happened, like his signing last year.
 

[big tone]

Can have confidence in both IMV

And just because my opinion differs with your doesn't means it is crap

Again you use Geelong, Geelong has not gone out and targeted free agents wanting big $$$ they have developed their own, created a culture where there players outside greedy Junior Ablett have taken reduced $$$ to stick together. That is the model all clubs should aspire too. WHy because it works

If wanting to model a club on the culture and program of Geelong is playing it safe then I will wear that.

Any new thoughts  after today and tonight WP? Or are you still confident?

[tigs2011]

Can have confidence in both IMV

And just because my opinion differs with your doesn't means it is crap

Again you use Geelong, Geelong has not gone out and targeted free agents wanting big $$$ they have developed their own, created a culture where there players outside greedy Junior Ablett have taken reduced $$$ to stick together. That is the model all clubs should aspire too. WHy because it works

If wanting to model a club on the culture and program of Geelong is playing it safe then I will wear that.

Any new thoughts  after today and tonight WP? Or are you still confident?

My thoughts are some recycled hacks are stunting junior development because Hardwick is worried.

[WA Tiger]

Must get better players!!!!!!!!!!

[Rampstar]

Can have confidence in both IMV

And just because my opinion differs with your doesn't means it is crap

Again you use Geelong, Geelong has not gone out and targeted free agents wanting big $$$ they have developed their own, created a culture where there players outside greedy Junior Ablett have taken reduced $$$ to stick together. That is the model all clubs should aspire too. WHy because it works

If wanting to model a club on the culture and program of Geelong is playing it safe then I will wear that.

Any new thoughts  after today and tonight WP? Or are you still confident?

My thoughts are some recycled hacks are stunting junior development because Hardwick is worried.

Have to agree. The recruiting of the recycleds this year was extremely poor. I wouldnt have recruited any of them either Knights or Lonergan or Stephenson. Just really poor recruiting last summer IMHO.

[Chuck17]

Can have confidence in both IMV

And just because my opinion differs with your doesn't means it is crap

Again you use Geelong, Geelong has not gone out and targeted free agents wanting big $$$ they have developed their own, created a culture where there players outside greedy Junior Ablett have taken reduced $$$ to stick together. That is the model all clubs should aspire too. WHy because it works

If wanting to model a club on the culture and program of Geelong is playing it safe then I will wear that.

Any new thoughts  after today and tonight WP? Or are you still confident?

My thoughts are some recycled hacks are stunting junior development because Hardwick is worried.

Have to agree. The recruiting of the recycleds this year was extremely poor. I wouldnt have recruited any of them either Knights or Lonergan or Stephenson. Just really poor recruiting last summer IMHO.

X 2

 it is ludicrous to even suggest that we recruit Any old spuds out there, FFS this thread started off suggesting we recruit Watts, I would be embarrassed even suggesting it

[WA Tiger]

Can have confidence in both IMV

And just because my opinion differs with your doesn't means it is crap

Again you use Geelong, Geelong has not gone out and targeted free agents wanting big $$$ they have developed their own, created a culture where there players outside greedy Junior Ablett have taken reduced $$$ to stick together. That is the model all clubs should aspire too. WHy because it works

If wanting to model a club on the culture and program of Geelong is playing it safe then I will wear that.

Any new thoughts  after today and tonight WP? Or are you still confident?

My thoughts are some recycled hacks are stunting junior development because Hardwick is worried.

Have to agree. The recruiting of the recycleds this year was extremely poor. I wouldnt have recruited any of them either Knights or Lonergan or Stephenson. Just really poor recruiting last summer IMHO.

X 2

 it is ludicrous to even suggest that we recruit Any old spuds out there, FFS this thread started off suggesting we recruit Watts, I would be embarrassed even suggesting it

Even more embarrassed then you are or should be now as a supporter?

[Chuck17]

Can have confidence in both IMV

And just because my opinion differs with your doesn't means it is crap

Again you use Geelong, Geelong has not gone out and targeted free agents wanting big $$$ they have developed their own, created a culture where there players outside greedy Junior Ablett have taken reduced $$$ to stick together. That is the model all clubs should aspire too. WHy because it works

If wanting to model a club on the culture and program of Geelong is playing it safe then I will wear that.

Any new thoughts  after today and tonight WP? Or are you still confident?

My thoughts are some recycled hacks are stunting junior development because Hardwick is worried.

Have to agree. The recruiting of the recycleds this year was extremely poor. I wouldnt have recruited any of them either Knights or Lonergan or Stephenson. Just really poor recruiting last summer IMHO.

X 2

 it is ludicrous to even suggest that we recruit Any old spuds out there, FFS this thread started off suggesting we recruit Watts, I would be embarrassed even suggesting it

Even more embarrassed then you are or should be now as a supporter?

Nah over last night, we will bounce back, I think we are a monty to win the next three games

[WA Tiger]

Can have confidence in both IMV

And just because my opinion differs with your doesn't means it is crap

Again you use Geelong, Geelong has not gone out and targeted free agents wanting big $$$ they have developed their own, created a culture where there players outside greedy Junior Ablett have taken reduced $$$ to stick together. That is the model all clubs should aspire too. WHy because it works

If wanting to model a club on the culture and program of Geelong is playing it safe then I will wear that.

Any new thoughts  after today and tonight WP? Or are you still confident?

My thoughts are some recycled hacks are stunting junior development because Hardwick is worried.

Have to agree. The recruiting of the recycleds this year was extremely poor. I wouldnt have recruited any of them either Knights or Lonergan or Stephenson. Just really poor recruiting last summer IMHO.

X 2

 it is ludicrous to even suggest that we recruit Any old spuds out there, FFS this thread started off suggesting we recruit Watts, I would be embarrassed even suggesting it

Even more embarrassed then you are or should be now as a supporter?

Nah over last night, we will bounce back, I think we are a monty to win the next three games

 ...God we are loyal Chucky, if we do mate I will fly to where you live and buy you a beer... I just wish the payers would get the job done!

[Chuck17]

LOL WAT