Faith in our development or poor trading?

[Francois Jackson]

very true BT. They speak like they know first hand who will take what or what our salary cap is. Facts are no one knows SFA including everyone on this site.

Al thinks the blues wouldnt have accepted our second pick but has yet to tell me how he knows this, or others that Hawthorn was preparing to take Angus hence why we had to move quick(the last one was the funniest thing ive heard in a while-cant remember who from) As if Hampson is a rare commodity

anyways we are locked and loaded for a flag tilt it seems.

[Penelope]

lmao, carlton did accept our second pick, so why would i say that they wouldnt.

 .

do you want to show where i said that?

bet you cant!

[Francois Jackson]

Grammatical error
Third I meant

U seem to think you know this that but facts are you know SFA as I do

It's all opinion and in mine I believe the club should have offered third and in the end they would've accepted judged on what we have seen transpired with other sun standard players

[Penelope]

 
yet i never said that i do. all i did was question you when you made out like you did know.
now somehow, in your  arse stuffed way of thinking, that means I have said that carlton wouldnt have accepted our 3rd rnd pick, but no where did i say that, did I?
as you say no one knows what they would have or would not have accepted, but that never stopped you from going on as if you knew that they would have accepted our 3rd round pick and then using subjective deranged logic try to justify yourself.

You know, i used to think that the persona of a backwards 15 year old struggling in a remedial class for 12 year olds was something you just put on.

It appears i was wrong

[Coach]

Oh come on!

[tigs2011]

 the whole idea of paying martin less than he wanted was to allow us to have sufficient f/a and trade room  to target players exactly like adams and chapman.

No it wasn't.  The whole idea of paying Martin less than what he wanted was because we only wanted to pay him what he was worth (a figure that was publicly proven to be spot on over the few weeks of Carr madness) and that was completely in line with our current stated policy of not paying overs for anyone, regardless of who they are and where they come from, a policy has been put in place to allow us to keep our young stars as they develop and to have a crack at someone worthwhile in FA if/when that someone comes along.  They obviously thought that Adams @ $400k and Chapman @ $300k fell outside that criteria and FWIW I agree with them.  I'm very very very happy that we have a management team in charge of our list who have a long term plan, and a willingness and capacity to stick to that plan, rather than let the emotional input of a coach on the cusp ruin it all with a year or two of shoddy list decisions.

pppffftttt. not if you have listened to the club. they bickered over 50odd k. and in the process stated they have their model to go by but also wanted to make sure they could target players in f/a and trades.
so we paid martin what we wanted so why is our salary cap still so tight that we cant offer quality players what they are worth.

We did offer what they were worth. Other clubs offered more. We move on. See if we can get one next year and the year after whilst retaining all the young kids like Ellis, Vlastuin, McBean etc.

[Smokey]

pppffftttt. not if you have listened to the club. they bickered over 50odd k. and in the process stated they have their model to go by but also wanted to make sure they could target players in f/a and trades.
so we paid martin what we wanted so why is our salary cap still so tight that we cant offer quality players what they are worth.

They didn't bicker over anything Claw.  The club offered Martin a figure very close to $500k and apart from a small increase to the original offer early on before Carr took Dusty to the open market, the club didn't budge.  Dusty wanted much closer to $100k more and the club didn't move after publicly telling Dusty they wouldn't - there was no bickering but there was a lot of postulating from Carr about what Dusty was really worth.  Turns out Carr was dead wrong and the club was dead right so why in anyone's name should the club have acted any differently?  And you keep saying we have no salary cap room but the club have never ever ever said that - it's only ever come from the media who would have no more idea than you or I.  What the club have said however, on a number of occasions is that they were managing the list and salary cap with a view to being able to keep our young stars and take advantage of FA when it came in but now when the club has not been interested in any FA players at the prices offered they are suddenly viewed as being incompetent or wrong, just because they didn't sate the knee-jerk desires of some of the emotionally invested supporter base in grabbing at each and every FA player to come to the marketplace.  If we had followed your line of thinking then we would have caved in to Conca and Martin, and in the process removed about $150k+ of salary cap room to move in - room that could prove critical next year when we are closer to a realistic tilt and when the right type of FA player for us might be available. Thank F we have cool heads with a plan and a model in charge of things at the club is all I can say.

[the claw]

pppffftttt. not if you have listened to the club. they bickered over 50odd k. and in the process stated they have their model to go by but also wanted to make sure they could target players in f/a and trades.
so we paid martin what we wanted so why is our salary cap still so tight that we cant offer quality players what they are worth.

 What the club have said however, on a number of occasions is that they were managing the list and salary cap with a view to being able to keep our young stars and take advantage of FA when it came in but now when the club has not been interested in any FA players at the prices offered.

who has said anywhere they are against the model put in place. i too applauded the stance on martin.

the point being made is we negotiated martins deal with the idea that we can manage our kids incomes as they improve and still have enough for f/a and trades.
the simple fact is we badly wanted adams but were not able  to pay him just over the afl average why is that.adams is worth 400k a yr even more.

if anyone thinks paul chapman is not worth a paltry 300k a yr for a season or two they are kidding themselves. ive heard all sorts of reasons why we should not have looked at chapman and all of them are nonsense.

the very fact we stuck to our model and paid martin and conca  what we did should have meant we had salary cap room to target a much sought after kid like adams. all i keep hearing is they couldnt pay him what his worth was on the open market. you are never going to get quality f/a into your club if you pay em peanuts.

[Rampstar]

i personally was hoping we were going to trade out martin. he'll leave anyway at the end of his next contract I reckon.

[Judge Roughneck]

i expect him to od long before then

[Coach]

i expect him to od long before then

He is on a two year deal. How long is long before the end of that contract?

[tigs2011]

 

[Stripes]

Adams would have come to Richmond but he was equally impressed with Collingwood & Geelong. The deciding factors for him in the end were the additional wage he would earn and the capabilities of those two clubs on rewarding GWS with players/picks that we could not. I think it wasn't that Collingwood was a far superior club which attracted him but rather the extra money and, probably most importantly, the fact they could get a deal done.

All things being equal I feel he would have come to us but I am glad we did not compromise our Salary Cap regardless. We are now thinking Big Picture and to the future which is as positive a sign that I have seen come out of the club as any other indicator over the last few decades. Stick to a formula to cater for success Tigers! 

Why do people keep saying we had nothing to offer GWS? Pick 11 if I remember correctly! We had the perfect opportunity when discussions stalled with Collingwood to swoop in and take him if we had the balls.
Adams is better than those kids that will be left at pick 12 from what I have seen from their highlight clips.
Doesn't really mater now but to say he wouldn't come to Tigerland or we had nothing to get the deal done is a load of crap.

Collingwood were willing to offer GWS their first pick but what GWS really wanted ( and went on record stating such) was experience and leadership. Shaw satisfied this. Coupled with the higher pay check, we had nothing to offer that would beat that.

[the claw]

Skunks stink of desperation to me.  Lot of changes to try and stay relevant but to be honest, I don't think Buckley has a stuffing clue how to drive.  stuff em.  Why be jealous of those turds, we finished above them and will again.

Well Owl, Nate has overseen a club poised to enter a dynasty by winning the flag in 2010 and losing 2 games in the H&A season in 2011 before choking up a final series on the back of a power driven ego maniac who was determined to see Nate coach which drove a massive wedge in the player group and stuff up certain back to back flags.
Since then, theyhave finished 4th and then 6th since the prodigal son returned.
It is absolutely stuffing hilarious that people on this forum are actually in awe of him and Collingwood.
It has been a complete and absolute balls up and if they don't get back into a GF or at least Top 4 they will be burning down Lexus centre.
Get rid of Micky Malthouse will be a disaster and next year will be an acid test for that entire club.

i think what collingwood have done is similar to what they did in 04 and 05.  after finishing 02 and 03 just short they had a mini rebuild.
seems to me they have taken an approach to invigorate the list with as many quality picks as they can without having to go to the bottom of the table to do it. last yr 18, 19 20, this yr adams 6 and 10. all this while they have the core of their premiership side still there. the only difference is they bottomed out a bit in 04 05 this time around they finished 8th.

the only players of significance they have lost  in two yrs are
tarrant 32yo retired. they have him covered.
dawes 24yo   traded for picks 20 and 47 lol. geez only an ave player at best so far.
wellingham 24yo  for 18, go home factor. good compensation for him.
shaw age 28 for adams. id take adams every day of the week. he will be a beauty.
thomas 26yo f/a pick 10. pick 10 as compensation it was decent but thomas at his best is worth much more.
jolly 32yo delisted. they have witts and grundy with mature backup from hudson.

the only real losses wellingham and thomas at least they got reasonable compensation for them.

[big tone]

Adams would have come to Richmond but he was equally impressed with Collingwood & Geelong. The deciding factors for him in the end were the additional wage he would earn and the capabilities of those two clubs on rewarding GWS with players/picks that we could not. I think it wasn't that Collingwood was a far superior club which attracted him but rather the extra money and, probably most importantly, the fact they could get a deal done.

All things being equal I feel he would have come to us but I am glad we did not compromise our Salary Cap regardless. We are now thinking Big Picture and to the future which is as positive a sign that I have seen come out of the club as any other indicator over the last few decades. Stick to a formula to cater for success Tigers! 

Why do people keep saying we had nothing to offer GWS? Pick 11 if I remember correctly! We had the perfect opportunity when discussions stalled with Collingwood to swoop in and take him if we had the balls.
Adams is better than those kids that will be left at pick 12 from what I have seen from their highlight clips.
Doesn't really mater now but to say he wouldn't come to Tigerland or we had nothing to get the deal done is a load of crap.

Collingwood were willing to offer GWS their first pick but what GWS really wanted ( and went on record stating such) was experience and leadership. Shaw satisfied this. Coupled with the higher pay check, we had nothing to offer that would beat that.

Stripes I used to consider you one of the more sensible posters on here but if you believe we couldn't have got a trade done to secure Adams if we really wanted him, than I was wrong. Whether you think we would have paid overs with our pick 11 and Edwards, I'm pretty sure that would have got it done.
GWS said they wanted experienced players but they also traded to get pick 2, so this just shows, if you put a decent proportion in front of them they would do whatever was best for their club. And that includes trading Adams to us in stead of Collingwood if we had the minerals to offer them something decent.
And just on paying Adams what everyone thinks he would be paid is easy too. You loose Edwards contract of IMO 250 to 300k and find another 100k odd. Not all that hard.