Faith in our development or poor trading?

[Chuck17]

 the whole idea of paying martin less than he wanted was to allow us to have sufficient f/a and trade room  to target players exactly like adams and chapman.

No it wasn't.  The whole idea of paying Martin less than what he wanted was because we only wanted to pay him what he was worth (a figure that was publicly proven to be spot on over the few weeks of Carr madness) and that was completely in line with our current stated policy of not paying overs for anyone, regardless of who they are and where they come from, a policy has been put in place to allow us to keep our young stars as they develop and to have a crack at someone worthwhile in FA if/when that someone comes along. 

Exactly, nothing like rewriting the history points to make your point

[tdy]

Collingwood and st kinda both co.ming down from successful periods

We are in a different situation. Not sure if you can compare

Yes you're right but Collingwood never seems to slide down too far do they. Perhaps in years to come we won't either 
[/quote]

When you turn over 70 million+ a year its not that hard to outspend other clubs.  Benny Gale is on the right track, more members = more corporate dollars = more and better coaches, doctors, recruiters the lot = win more often.

[tdy]

We demand action for the dignity of the forum!  poo I spat coffee on the computer screen as I wrote that lol

Jesse White toweled us up in Sydney. I look forward to him doing it again but in the black and white

First "Collingwood are a class act", now this. You look forward to a Collingwood player kicking goals against Richmond. What an absolute disgrace. Mods, it is time to act.

Collingwang Groupie

Which is it? What is the mainreason we have been so quiet during this free agency and trade period -

Is the reason because -

1) We are confident in the players we have on the list and in particular the youth. We are sure that our development coaches can enable them to reach their potential and we have the players at our club to fill all roles now, in the future and in case of injury

or

2) we had no currency to trade, no ability to lure opposition players and no interest in landing a player we would have to pay overs for?

Both i would think

But I reckon the first part of point 2 is the main reason

Facts are the players on our list with real currency, that would get you a first round draft pick or 2nd rounder are the players we can not afford (at this stage) get rid of

Look at Vickery, if McBean (1st yr) or Elton (only 2nd yr) were ready or Griffiths (3rd yr ?? but too many injuries) had come on like you'd hoped then Vickery is a trade option for an early pick. But as it stands right now we really can't afford to trade him (though I'd trade him to GWS for pick 1  )

there's no way in hell you're going to trade Cotch, Lids, Martin, Conca, Ellis, Rance, Grimes, Reiwoldt, Vlaustin. These are the players on our list that have real currency for early picks

Go through our list and there aren't many who'd get you a 2nd rounder. Get you plenty of 3rd rounders but not second rounders

Right at the minute I'd love to see the club try and be daring in the remainder of this week, try and do some sort of deal that gets us back into the 2nd round but I cannot see it happening

To take it a step further I can actually see GWS being prepared to trade picks 1 or 2 for the right type of senior player(s). Would be great if our Club had the guts to do that sort of deal. I know they wont  but I wish they would 

I am glad however, that have refused to pay overs for Adams. Dont like the idea of bringing in a kid who's been in the system 2 yrs and paying them more than the kids we've bought in developed and have stayed loyal

I'd trade Foley for a second rounder, preferably inside the top 20.  I think he is good but aging and a potential injury risk, sell him while he has currency.

[WilliamPowell]

so how much is conca getting. 300k, adams would be worth every bit of 400k a yr a blind man can see he will be some sort of player. a better player than conca.

how the hell chapman is not worth 300k a yr is beyond me. its just on the afl average. for a player of his quality and performance its cheap. if salary cap is the reason we could not go for these players we are doing it wrong.
the simple fact is there are so many poor performers on our list we should not be having salary cap issues.

 the whole idea of paying martin less than he wanted was to allow us to have sufficient f/a and trade room  to target players exactly like adams and chapman.

True but probably not a great idea to pay Adams 400k in the same year we payed unders on Martin and Conca. Mute point anyway considering we did not have the currency to satisfy GWS regardless.

Would think the biggest "mute point" in the whole thing was the kid didn't want to come to the RFC. He made that clear, very clear

What's the point in even considering him when he said he wanted to go somewhere else

[Jobba]

so how much is conca getting. 300k, adams would be worth every bit of 400k a yr a blind man can see he will be some sort of player. a better player than conca.

how the hell chapman is not worth 300k a yr is beyond me. its just on the afl average. for a player of his quality and performance its cheap. if salary cap is the reason we could not go for these players we are doing it wrong.
the simple fact is there are so many poor performers on our list we should not be having salary cap issues.

 the whole idea of paying martin less than he wanted was to allow us to have sufficient f/a and trade room  to target players exactly like adams and chapman.

True but probably not a great idea to pay Adams 400k in the same year we payed unders on Martin and Conca. Mute point anyway considering we did not have the currency to satisfy GWS regardless.

Would think the biggest "mute point" in the whole thing was the kid didn't want to come to the RFC. He made that clear, very clear

What's the point in even considering him when he said he wanted to go somewhere else

Exactly right WP. And I think thats a point that hasn't been discussed. Buddy, Adams, now Karnezis, Dal Santo, Longer, Polec, Yeo etc have all nominated clubs to go to. It's hard to get involved heavily in trading when thats the case.

Call me crazy, but I also do not believe that Adams is any better than Conca. Not saying he is worse, just don't believe he is any better. Other than Greene and Adams, I don't think there are any genuine inside mids for GWS. If Adams had been drafted by RFC, I'm not 100% sure we would be talking about him in the same vain.

[Stripes]

Adams would have come to Richmond but he was equally impressed with Collingwood & Geelong. The deciding factors for him in the end were the additional wage he would earn and the capabilities of those two clubs on rewarding GWS with players/picks that we could not. I think it wasn't that Collingwood was a far superior club which attracted him but rather the extra money and, probably most importantly, the fact they could get a deal done.

All things being equal I feel he would have come to us but I am glad we did not compromise our Salary Cap regardless. We are now thinking Big Picture and to the future which is as positive a sign that I have seen come out of the club as any other indicator over the last few decades. Stick to a formula to cater for success Tigers! 

[tony_montana]

We demand action for the dignity of the forum!  poo I spat coffee on the computer screen as I wrote that lol

Jesse White toweled us up in Sydney. I look forward to him doing it again but in the black and white

First "Collingwood are a class act", now this. You look forward to a Collingwood player kicking goals against Richmond. What an absolute disgrace. Mods, it is time to act.

Collingwang Groupie

Which is it? What is the mainreason we have been so quiet during this free agency and trade period -

Is the reason because -

1) We are confident in the players we have on the list and in particular the youth. We are sure that our development coaches can enable them to reach their potential and we have the players at our club to fill all roles now, in the future and in case of injury

or

2) we had no currency to trade, no ability to lure opposition players and no interest in landing a player we would have to pay overs for?

Both i would think

But I reckon the first part of point 2 is the main reason

Facts are the players on our list with real currency, that would get you a first round draft pick or 2nd rounder are the players we can not afford (at this stage) get rid of

Look at Vickery, if McBean (1st yr) or Elton (only 2nd yr) were ready or Griffiths (3rd yr ?? but too many injuries) had come on like you'd hoped then Vickery is a trade option for an early pick. But as it stands right now we really can't afford to trade him (though I'd trade him to GWS for pick 1  )

there's no way in hell you're going to trade Cotch, Lids, Martin, Conca, Ellis, Rance, Grimes, Reiwoldt, Vlaustin. These are the players on our list that have real currency for early picks

Go through our list and there aren't many who'd get you a 2nd rounder. Get you plenty of 3rd rounders but not second rounders

Right at the minute I'd love to see the club try and be daring in the remainder of this week, try and do some sort of deal that gets us back into the 2nd round but I cannot see it happening

To take it a step further I can actually see GWS being prepared to trade picks 1 or 2 for the right type of senior player(s). Would be great if our Club had the guts to do that sort of deal. I know they wont  but I wish they would 

I am glad however, that have refused to pay overs for Adams. Dont like the idea of bringing in a kid who's been in the system 2 yrs and paying them more than the kids we've bought in developed and have stayed loyal

I'd trade Foley for a second rounder, preferably inside the top 20.  I think he is good but aging and a potential injury risk, sell him while he has currency.

I dont think Foley has any currency atm. He will at the end of 2014 as he'll go into the season fully prepped and will have a much bwtter year. That will be the time to trade him for adequate compensation

[Francois Jackson]

haha Foley doesnt have any currency yet bernie vince and hampson do

come on man

[tiga]

Call me crazy, but I also do not believe that Adams is any better than Conca. Not saying he is worse, just don't believe he is any better. Other than Greene and Adams, I don't think there are any genuine inside mids for GWS. If Adams had been drafted by RFC, I'm not 100% sure we would be talking about him in the same vain.

Jobba don't forget Shiel and Treloar. Shiel is one of those rare Midfielders that can play both inside and outside very well. Because of this, I rate him as a better player than Adams. If there is any way we can snare him, I will be doing cartwheels!! Then we have Treloar. Didn't have a great 2013 but still averaged 24 disposals per game. I also rate him better than Adams purely based on temperament. Nothing fazes this kid and he is just as tough as Adams but without the short fuse.

[tony_montana]

haha Foley doesnt have any currency yet bernie vince and hampson do

come on man

chronic injuries will do that. With his history we wouldn't get a top 30 pick. If u think clubs would then youre deluded.

Give him a year to consolidate and hell be worth a trade bc his best is a lot better than the 2 u mentioned. Why sell stock at its lowest point?

[Francois Jackson]

i raise you Daisy Thomas, injured for 2 yrs, Hampson and that spud Vince who plays injured most of the time, he is that useless.

il give him a year to drop in value even more like what we did with Nahas and doing with Ritchie Edwards

[tony_montana]

None of their injuries are as chronic as foleys has been. His vaue is as low as it gets - its been 4 years and miltiple debilitating breakdowns. Dont know why u think clubs r that stupid? He needs to prove his body isnt shot for him to gain any currency.

His form in the first 12 rounds of 2010 was pretty awesome, that came off a full preseason, if he does that again in 2014 without a breakdown we'll be able to get something for him. If not - well we havent lost out bc
he aint worth poo atm.

[Jobba]

Call me crazy, but I also do not believe that Adams is any better than Conca. Not saying he is worse, just don't believe he is any better. Other than Greene and Adams, I don't think there are any genuine inside mids for GWS. If Adams had been drafted by RFC, I'm not 100% sure we would be talking about him in the same vain.

Jobba don't forget Shiel and Treloar. Shiel is one of those rare Midfielders that can play both inside and outside very well. Because of this, I rate him as a better player than Adams. If there is any way we can snare him, I will be doing cartwheels!! Then we have Treloar. Didn't have a great 2013 but still averaged 24 disposals per game. I also rate him better than Adams purely based on temperament. Nothing fazes this kid and he is just as tough as Adams but without the short fuse.

I'd argue that Shiel is a 'genuine' inside midfielder. Think he has the potential to be the elite level midfielder of both inside and out, but think he has a while to go inside. Will get there though, and will be a gun. Treloar on the hand, your point was well made.

[the claw]

 the whole idea of paying martin less than he wanted was to allow us to have sufficient f/a and trade room  to target players exactly like adams and chapman.

No it wasn't.  The whole idea of paying Martin less than what he wanted was because we only wanted to pay him what he was worth (a figure that was publicly proven to be spot on over the few weeks of Carr madness) and that was completely in line with our current stated policy of not paying overs for anyone, regardless of who they are and where they come from, a policy has been put in place to allow us to keep our young stars as they develop and to have a crack at someone worthwhile in FA if/when that someone comes along.  They obviously thought that Adams @ $400k and Chapman @ $300k fell outside that criteria and FWIW I agree with them.  I'm very very very happy that we have a management team in charge of our list who have a long term plan, and a willingness and capacity to stick to that plan, rather than let the emotional input of a coach on the cusp ruin it all with a year or two of shoddy list decisions.

pppffftttt. not if you have listened to the club. they bickered over 50odd k. and in the process stated they have their model to go by but also wanted to make sure they could target players in f/a and trades.
so we paid martin what we wanted so why is our salary cap still so tight that we cant offer quality players what they are worth.

[big tone]

Adams would have come to Richmond but he was equally impressed with Collingwood & Geelong. The deciding factors for him in the end were the additional wage he would earn and the capabilities of those two clubs on rewarding GWS with players/picks that we could not. I think it wasn't that Collingwood was a far superior club which attracted him but rather the extra money and, probably most importantly, the fact they could get a deal done.

All things being equal I feel he would have come to us but I am glad we did not compromise our Salary Cap regardless. We are now thinking Big Picture and to the future which is as positive a sign that I have seen come out of the club as any other indicator over the last few decades. Stick to a formula to cater for success Tigers! 

Why do people keep saying we had nothing to offer GWS? Pick 11 if I remember correctly! We had the perfect opportunity when discussions stalled with Collingwood to swoop in and take him if we had the balls.
Adams is better than those kids that will be left at pick 12 from what I have seen from their highlight clips.
Doesn't really mater now but to say he wouldn't come to Tigerland or we had nothing to get the deal done is a load of crap.