End of Season: Delist

[Bulluss]

I agree with most peoples thoughts in regards to trading Krak, agree with JohnF that he has been ok to fair/poor. The issue that i have is that he is on around 250K. His performances are well and truly below a player of that pay.

Trade him now while we can get somthing for him.

Compare him to Deledio who is on around 50K and i know who has been more influencial this season.

Others on my list include

Hilton - Has done ok this season in the seniors but he has had enough chances. His spot could easily be taken by a younger player and have no effect on the team.

Tivendale - With some teams looking for some pace, we may be able to stooge them with Tiva's while he is still worth something.

Stafford - Fails to influence a game these days.

Campbell - May retire, but with such a young list i would be happy for him to go around again. Also believe he deserves the 300

Graham - I stongly believe he will go around again, i remember Dermie saying that he has the body of a 27-28 year old when we first picked him up. He is ever so reliable and would be handy to keep while Patteron and Moore continue to develop.

Morrison - Thought he deserved more of a go but seems destined to get the chop.

Players that i think will be lucky to survive the axe include: Chaffey, Roach, Gilmour and Archibald

[julzqld]

Yeah, let's get Rix

No thanks.

Morrison > Rix

Not for Julz's purposes 

Lol - MT you know me too well.

[mightytiges]

dont get u guys, all this talk about trading krak, well then we must trade sugar as well. krak has had a far better yr and been more valuable in certain games than our captain! gees, as soon as krak has a below par game everyone is up his behind! this guy is a footballer with a gr8 footy brain and has the skills to boot! two things our captain does not possess! instead of all the lets get ris of krak the facts are he is a freakish talent and must stay!

I can understand comparing Bowden and Johnson but Krakouer isn't even near Johnson's league yet. If only Krakouer could run all day like Johnson does. I'm not having a go at Krakouer here although it may look like it nor saying he should be traded but more sticking up for the consistency of Kane. Sugar is our leading average disposal getter this year and has only had 3 games below 20 possessions and none ever below 10. I would like to find "effectiveness" and "inside/rebound 50" stats but I'm not sure where to find them on the net. Anyway compare that to Andy who has only reached 20 possessions once this year and has had 9 matches where he's got only 10 or less. And for an impact player he's only kicked multiple goals in 5 of our 17 games and 2 where he's kicked more than 2. Yes they play different roles so Krakouer's disposal stats will be less than Sugar's but IMO X you're being severely harsh on Johnson.

lets get serious
we must look to our future and we need a fwd pocket freak in our team who can go onball!!!
the players that are not part of the future are the ones that must be traded and let go, whether they have had a gr8 yr, been fantastic or had gr8 history with us should not matter! this yr terry must be as ruthless as last yr and chop at least 10 more head! now one must not use their heart in this situation , we have to think about or team in the future and let even some big names go.

I agree with you here X but I don't think it will happen this year given our young list and that we won't have as many and of course same quality of picks as we did last year. The senior list has to remain at 38 so whoever we get rid of we must replace. Most of the names on your list have no trade value - Tivs and possibly Hall and Chaffey at best have some value but not a first rounder. So replacing all of them them with more speculative kids from late picks won't improve our list IMO nor help the development of the many kids we already have if they don't have some senior bodies around them. Let go of some of them by all means (please lol) but IMO I don't believe it'll be another clean out of 10 say. 

[WilliamPowell]

So replacing all of them them with more speculative kids from late picks won't improve our list IMO nor help the development of the many kids we already have if they don't have some senior bodies around them. Let go of some of them by all means (please lol) but IMO I don't believe it'll be another clean out of 10 say. 

The minimum number that must go is 3 - they are the rules.

I agree MT I don't think we'll see 10 go. I reckon it will be more like 4 or maybe 5 subject to the draft of course.

The other thing is the depth of the draft and I've heard so many experts (recruiting people) say the depth isn't there. I don't think clubs in general are going to commit to a 2 year deal on really late speculative picks this year. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again to succeed in the trade period to gain a decent pick you have trade something that has value - when we talk about off loading blokes if we want trade up we have to give up something decent

[letsgetiton!]

I can understand comparing Bowden and Johnson but Krakouer isn't even near Johnson's league yet. If only Krakouer could run all day like Johnson does. I'm not having a go at Krakouer here although it may look like it nor saying he should be traded but more sticking up for the consistency of Kane. Sugar is our leading average disposal getter this year and has only had 3 games below 20 possessions and none ever below 10. I would like to find "effectiveness" and "inside/rebound 50" stats but I'm not sure where to find them on the net. Anyway compare that to Andy who has only reached 20 possessions once this year and has had 9 matches where he's got only 10 or less. And for an impact player he's only kicked multiple goals in 5 of our 17 games and 2 where he's kicked more than 2. Yes they play different roles so Krakouer's disposal stats will be less than Sugar's but IMO X you're being severely harsh on Johnson.

sugar i admit gets plenty of the ball, but so what! its what you do with it that counts! krak when playing in the midfeild never misses a target but sugar on the other hand struggles at this at best! his ineffective disposal would be high , i dont mean clangers i mean kicks and handballs that make life difficult for teammates. his disposals may not be clangers but because they are of such poor quality the ball ebnds up being turned over because they just dont hit enough targets lace out!
in hindsight i may be wrong here , but as i recall , if we never chased sugar, wells would have been on our list! maybe im wrong but wells creams sugar with his skill pace and footy brain. they are the players we need

now im not anti sugar, he is ok, but in my opinion he is another buckley. i dont rate bucjkley as high as eddie  the media and many clowns do. he gats many stats also , 80% in the back pocket receiving a kick in(cheap stat) and bothe players are rarely seen under packs getting the real hard ball

[JohnF]

Johnson does have some trouble with his disposal sometimes but he still does a lot of good things. You don't finish second in the best and fairest two years in a row if your possessions are ineffective. Coaches are there to scrutinise which player is being the most effective and Johnson has been proven to be one of our most effective overall for the last couple of years. His effectiveness has been down this year but I believe this is due to him playing with injuries through the year. For that reasons he hasn't been able to throw himself around the contest like he had in previous years. Even still, he has been far from our worst, and in fact he's in our top half dozen. Krakouer on the other hand is defnitely not in our top dozen based on this year's performance.

And about Buckley, come on X, you talk about good disposal, have you ever seen a better footpasser in the AFL than Buckley? I haven't. Great, great kick.

[letsgetiton!]

And about Buckley, come on X, you talk about good disposal, have you ever seen a better footpasser in the AFL than Buckley? I haven't. Great, great kick.

gilbee, bruce, green, wells, voss, black , ackerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, just to name a couple. then in the past leon cameron, williams ,dale weightman, royal poo the list could go forever. u ould be surprised how many targets buckley actually misses

[mightytiges]

sugar i admit gets plenty of the ball, but so what! its what you do with it that counts! krak when playing in the midfeild never misses a target but sugar on the other hand struggles at this at best! his ineffective disposal would be high , i dont mean clangers i mean kicks and handballs that make life difficult for teammates. his disposals may not be clangers but because they are of such poor quality the ball ebnds up being turned over because they just dont hit enough targets lace out!

I don't know what Sugar's disposal effectiveness is as I can't find a site with such stats but as John stated he is in our best 6. One of the stats sites had an overall effectiveness category up to round 10 this year and Johnson was rated at 95% which was one of highest at Richmond.

I wouldn't rate Johnson up there with Buckley. Five years ago I too didn't rate Bucks that highly as IMO he struggled with accuracy over 40m. Duncan use to spank him by dragging Bucks back to the HB line and force Bucks to kick long which we just picked off. However over the past 4 years ignoring injury his kicking has been fantastic so he deserves the praise he gets despite him playing for the maggots  .

The best field kick ever that I've seen has to be Darren Jarman!   

in hindsight i may be wrong here , but as i recall , if we never chased sugar, wells would have been on our list! maybe im wrong but wells creams sugar with his skill pace and footy brain. they are the players we need

I agree Wells is now the type of player we need in our midfield as our lack of pace and skill kills us against the top sides once the footy is loose. Terry smartly was aware of this before even coaching us. That's why he got Tambling and Meyer on top of Deledio. Anyway when we traded our pick it was pick #4 (= Timothy Walsh). It only became pick #2 (=Wells) after we had already traded for Johnson when the AFL through the book at Carlton for cheating. Some argue it was obvious what was going to happen but it shouldn't be up to the clubs to playing guessing games with picks when trade week starts. The AFL should had organised it that no trading or drafting be done until after they had made their final decision on the Blues. Blame them for the stuff up. Should also mention we also got Schulz as well at #12 and lost Torney in that deal.

The draft that year was and in hindsight one of the poorest of recent times. Almost a list of duds/nobodies apart from Wells, Rivers and a couple of others like Selwood and Minson doing some nice things this year. We of course under Spud and Brittain went for Fleming and Nichols  .

 Round 1
1. St Kilda - Brendon Goddard (Gippsland Power)
2. Kangaroos - Daniel Wells (Peel Thunder)
3. Brisbane - Jared Brennan (Southern Districts)
4. Western Bulldogs - Timothy Walsh (Northern Knights)
5. Sydney - Jarrad McVeigh (NSW/ACT Rams)
6. Port Adelaide - Steven Salopek (Dandenong Stingrays)
7. Geelong - Andrew Mackie (Glenelg)
8. Hawthorn - Luke Brennan (North Ballarat Rebels)
9. Kangaroos - Hamish McIntosh (Murray Bushrangers)
10. Essendon - Jason Laycock (Tassie Mariners)
11. Essendon - Jason Winderlich (Gippsland Power)
12. Richmond - Jay Sculz (Woodville-West Torrens)
13. Fremantle - Byron Schammer (West Adelaide)
14. Melbourne - Daniel Bell (Glenelg)
15. Melbourne - Nicholas Smith (Norwood)

Round 2
16. Port Adelaide - Stephen Gilham (Oakleigh Chargers)
17. Western Bulldogs - Cameron Faulkner (Central District)
18. Kangaroos - Kris Shore (Eastern Ranges)
19. Brisbane - Troy Selwood (Bendigo Pioneers)
20. Western Bulldogs - William Minson (Norwood)
21. Collingwood - Bowman Nixon (Calder Cannons)
22. St Kilda - Matthew Ferguson (Gippsland Power)
23. Geelong - Tom Lonergan (Calder Cannons)
24. West Coast - Paul Johnson (Dandenong Stingrays)
25. Kangaroos - Callum Urch (Western Jets)
26. Melbourne - Jared Rivers (North Adelaide)
27. Essendon - Darren Walsh (Sandringham Dragons)
28. Essendon - Tristan Cartledge (North Ballarat Rebels)
29. Collingwood - Luke Shackleton (Tassie Mariners)
30. Brisbane - Daniel Merrett (Southport)

Round 3
31. Kangaroos - Joel Perry (Eastern Ranges)
32. Adelaide - Luke Jericho (West Adelaide)
33. Western Bulldogs - Brad Murphy (Calder Cannons)
34. Sydney - Sean Dempster (Gippsland Power)
35. Western Bulldogs - Scott Bassett (Port Adelaide)
36. Geelong - Tim Callan (Geelong Falcons)
37. West Coast - Brent Staker (NSW/ACT Rams)
38. Kangaroos - Blake Grima (Eastern Ranges)
39. Melbourne - Gary Moorcroft (Essendon)
40. Essendon - Jobe Watson (Sandringham Dragons)
41. Richmond - Tim Fleming (Carlton)
42. Port Adelaide - Brett Ebert (Port Adelaide Magpies)
43. Collingwood - Cameron Cloke (Eastern Ranges)
44. Brisbane - Anthony Corrie (Nightcliff)

[mightytiges]

gilbee

No wonder Wallace tried to get him to come to Punt Road after last season. You'd reckon a AA spot on a HBF.

[JohnF]

And about Buckley, come on X, you talk about good disposal, have you ever seen a better footpasser in the AFL than Buckley? I haven't. Great, great kick.

gilbee, bruce, green, wells, voss, black , ackerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, just to name a couple. then in the past leon cameron, williams ,dale weightman, royal pooh the list could go forever. u ould be surprised how many targets buckley actually misses

Buckley has been a champion player for over a decade and a great kick throughout his whole career. He had his arrs kicked a few times by Duncan Kellaway but his career achievements speak for themselves. What's he got 6 Copeland trophies, 7 All Australian guernseys, 5 finishes in the top 5 of the Brownlow? Some of the names you list haven't even played a good year in total.


 

[Ox]

I agree with most peoples thoughts in regards to trading Krak, agree with JohnF that he has been ok to fair/poor. The issue that i have is that he is on around 250K. His performances are well and truly below a player of that pay.

Trade him now while we can get somthing for him.

Compare him to Deledio who is on around 50K and i know who has been more influencial this season.

Others on my list include

Hilton - Has done ok this season in the seniors but he has had enough chances. His spot could easily be taken by a younger player and have no effect on the team.

Tivendale - With some teams looking for some pace, we may be able to stooge them with Tiva's while he is still worth something.

Stafford - Fails to influence a game these days.

Campbell - May retire, but with such a young list i would be happy for him to go around again. Also believe he deserves the 300

Graham - I stongly believe he will go around again, i remember Dermie saying that he has the body of a 27-28 year old when we first picked him up. He is ever so reliable and would be handy to keep while Patteron and Moore continue to develop.

Morrison - Thought he deserved more of a go but seems destined to get the chop.

Players that i think will be lucky to survive the axe include: Chaffey, Roach, Gilmour and Archibald

I agree with most of that list and the reasoning but I think Chaffey will go around for
at least another year.
George Hamilton has a spot for him and I think he is quite fond of the Chafster.

[mightytiges]

George Hamilton has a spot for him and I think he is quite fond of the Chafster.

Took me a sec to click but 

[mightytiges]

X's cleaning out of another 10 is sounding very tempting right now. Dare I say it - we could lose our last 4 games and be better off in the long term finishing 12th with a top 6 draft pick    .

 

[JohnF]

I'd still stick to my picks:

Campbell, Stafford, Morrison Hilton and Tivendale.

I would like to give the other guys an opportunity but I could see all these blokes going at the end of 2006:

Roach, Raines, Rodan, Gilmour, Graham, Chaffey, Moore, Schulz, Krakouer, Archibald, Foley, Jackson, Kellaway.

Just depends how they perform over the next 12 months really.

[mightytiges]

Realistically you're closer to the mark to what wil happen John. I'm just ticked off after today. Tivs was awful. Wallace took Tambling (who was on Kade Simpson) off to talk to him about not going in hard enough and Tivs replaced him on the wing yet paid no respect to Simpson whatsoever.