Author Topic: Tim Taranto [merged]  (Read 68409 times)

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Taranto wouldn't be in the top 150 players: Cornes (SEN)
« Reply #255 on: May 05, 2023, 08:38:14 PM »
Cornes is doing his job as a sports commentator.

He provides opinion and from what I’ve heard, owns it when he’s called out for an error. I don’t think he takes himself that seriously.

The nature of his job is to provide opinions and sports commentary and he clearly does this in a provocative way to the biggest supporter bases in order to gain maximum attention and listeners.

KB used to do this with theCheat supporters all the time and it was hilarious.

The fact we have a thread dedicated to him is testimony to his success.
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Offline one-eyed

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Re: Taranto wouldn't be in the top 150 players: Cornes (SEN)
« Reply #256 on: May 05, 2023, 08:38:39 PM »
Tony Shaw on twitter:

"Unfortunately Kane has fallen for the I need to be controversial instead of having credibility trick. If your going to criticise someone make sure u haven’t had them as a potential recruit 12 months earlier."

https://twitter.com/TonyShaw22/status/1654390135201624064

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Taranto wouldn't be in the top 150 players: Cornes (SEN)
« Reply #257 on: May 05, 2023, 08:40:14 PM »
Tony Shaw on twitter:

"Unfortunately Kane has fallen for the I need to be controversial instead of having credibility trick. If your going to criticise someone make sure u haven’t had them as a potential recruit 12 months earlier."

https://twitter.com/TonyShaw22/status/1654390135201624064
Tony Shaw opinion is like  the weather in Melbourne.  :rollin
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Taranto wouldn't be in the top 150 players: Cornes (SEN)
« Reply #258 on: May 05, 2023, 10:56:27 PM »
I agree, sites like this only builds his profile so ive asked why they bother if no one wants to see it.

KB was nothing like Cornes. I never remember KB bagging individual players, nor do i eremmber countless back to back articles about one club on radio and in print.

Not even remotely similar IMV.



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Offline MintOnLamb

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Re: Taranto wouldn't be in the top 150 players: Cornes (SEN)
« Reply #259 on: May 06, 2023, 01:35:46 AM »
I would rather listen to Cornes thank Andy Maher, and cannot stand Brayshaw in any format

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tim Taranto officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #260 on: May 06, 2023, 05:05:57 PM »
Taranto's game today. 150 other players are better than this apparently.

30 disposals (14k, 16h, 20c, 11u, 53.3% eff.)
3 marks
5 tackles (1 F50 tackle)
10 clearances (5 centre clearances)
3 inside 50s
293 metres gained
3 intercepts
6 score involvements
2 goals
1 behind
77% time on ground

Online Willy

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Re: Tim Taranto officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #261 on: May 06, 2023, 05:09:08 PM »
Doing what we paid him for.

Not great by foot but does the hard stuff very well.

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tim Taranto officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #262 on: May 07, 2023, 04:04:28 AM »
‘That Is A Headline For Clicks’: Daisy Thomas Goes In To Bat For Tim Taranto

MMM
7 May 2023


Daisy Thomas has defended Tim Taranto’s start to his career at Richmond after Kane Cornes claimed the midfielder wasn’t in the best 150 players in the competition.

“That’s genuine horseradish… That is a headline for clicks,” Daisy said in reply to Cornes’ call.

“At the minute he’d be leading Richmond’s best and fairest quite comfortably.

“They’re not getting him for his class… you’re going to get a player that puts his head in the trough.

“I think he’s been fantastic.”

https://articles.listnr.com/triple-m/triple-m-footy/that-is-a-headline-for-clicks-daisy-thomas-goes-in-to-bat-for-tim-taranto/

Offline Andyy

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Re: Tim Taranto officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #263 on: May 07, 2023, 08:58:33 AM »
Again, glad for the support, but would like them to stop mentioning him by his name.

Hoping he fades into obscurity one day.

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tim Taranto officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #264 on: May 07, 2023, 02:21:02 PM »
"I've never said anything for the sake of it."

@kanecornes responds to Damien Hardwick's comments.

Vision: https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/1655013457178292225

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cornes had the chance to respond on Nine's Sunday Footy Show.

"I've never said anything for the sake of it, I've never said anything to get a click," Cornes said.

"I don't get paid per click, I couldn't care less if you click on it or not.

"I was a little bit surprised because I spoke to him yesterday (Saturday) morning and we had that discussion. He rang me. I was surprised after the game he went public with that. But we had a good discussion.

"I said to him it was part of an extended chat on a radio show on a Friday morning that would have lasted five minutes. If you go and read the one headline which he would have done, and not listened to the whole conversation in its full context, then yes you could say that was said for clicks.

"One of his great strengths is his loyalty and support for his players, which we've seen for a number of years, and I admire that about him.

"It was a good discussion. We had a good chat, in the end we chatted about our families... he is a premiership teammate, he was one of my favourite teammates, I've got so much respect for him.

"I was just surprised it's blown up like this after the conversation we had."

Cornes also defended his comments about Taranto which sparked the Hardwick spray.

"It depends which way you look at it... he played against a side that wasn't that strong," he said of the Eagles.

"He's playing a role for them. If I'd flipped that and said he is in the top 15 to 20 per cent of players in the game, is that less provocative? Because that's what it is.

"Top 150... you are in the top echelon of players in the game.

"I don't think he hurts you. They are a side that's bottom four at the moment, so it's not that difficult to be their best player.

"If you're not getting 30 you're probably not that deserving of your spot in there. I just think his ball use has hurt him."

https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/news-2023-kane-cornes-damien-hardwick-criticism-video-tim-taranto/b7f882e3-3a7e-4633-a121-cf32e529fb0b

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tim Taranto officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #265 on: May 08, 2023, 02:04:46 PM »
Chief football writer Mark Robinson names his likes and dislikes from round 8.

LIKES

1. Tim Taranto fan club


Commentator Kane Cornes has wound up Richmond with his provocative commentary on midfield recruit Tim Taranto. Coach Damien Hardwick basically called Cornes a clickbait specialist, while former Tigers great Matthew Richardson said on Twitter: “Tim Taranto not a 150 player (three laughing emojis). I’ve heard some nonsense in my time but this has gone straight to number 1.’’ The highly respected Tony Shaw added on 3AW: “If you want to go out there on a limb and you want to be controversial, make sure that you do homework.’’ And Dale Thomas didn’t miss either. “That is a headline for clicks,’’ he said on Triple M. Cornes would relish the commentary, and won’t be offended by the feedback, but not sure the AFL would be pleased with the shenanigans. Last year, the outspoken Cornes was added to the selection panel for the All-Australian team and, judging by his position on Taranto, the Tigers midfielder won’t be a consideration for selection this year despite his football being of a high standard in five of the eight games.

That he plays for struggling Richmond will count against him. That he has Cornes being critical of him, doubly so. While there’s a market for his direct commentary, you suspect the AFL would prefer an AA selector to be less critical of the players. And is the criticism warranted? Yes, Taranto is only average by foot, but over the past month he has averaged 32 disposals, 15 contested possessions, seven clearances and eight score involvements. In that time his competition ranking for disposals is fifth, he’s sixth for contested possessions and top 15 for clearance and score involvements. His average SuperCoach points in that period is 130, which places him third in the competition.

https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/the-tackle-mark-robinson-names-his-likes-and-dislikes-from-round-8/news-story/32ecac0ec5086e1309c88d092acbc6e2

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tim Taranto officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #266 on: May 08, 2023, 05:29:02 PM »
Taranto is equal 18th in the Coaches Award. Not bad for the 151st player in the comp.  :whistle

LEADERBOARD after Round 8

45 Nick Daicos (COLL)
43 Marcus Bontempelli (WB)
36 Clayton Oliver (MELB)
34 Jeremy Cameron (GEEL)
34 Callum Wilkie (STK)
33 Christian Petracca (MELB)
32 Patrick Dangerfield (GEEL)
31 Zak Butters (PORT)
29 Noah Anderson (GCFC)
29 Jordan Dawson (ADEL)
29 Toby Greene (GWS)
29 Jack Sinclair (STK)
28 Charlie Curnow (CARL)
28 Jordan De Goey (COLL)
25 Darcy Moore (COLL)
24 Charlie Cameron (BL)
24 Chad Warner (SYD)
23 Tim Kelly (WCE)
23 Zach Merrett (ESS)
23 Lachie Neale (BL)
23 Tim Taranto (RICH)

https://www.afl.com.au/news/922014/coaches-votes-r8-brilliant-bont-one-of-eight-perfect-10s

Offline Francois Jackson

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Offline one-eyed

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Champion Data: Stats for Richmond’s Tim Taranto reveal Kane Cornes had a point with controversial criticism

Kane Cornes’ criticism of Tim Taranto was blasted as clickbait, yet Champion Data stats reveal the Richmond star has a major deficiency, writes SHANNON GILL.

Shannon Gill
HeraldSun
May 11, 2023


While the back and forth pantomime over the worth of Tim Taranto raged over the weekend, it seemed to degenerate into another referendum on outspoken commentator Kane Cornes rather than what it probably should have been.

That is: should we rate players on the amount of times they get the ball or by what they do with the ball; and more cerebrally, whether we unfairly skew importance or quality of performance with who gets the ball most often.

Champion Data’s numbers allow us to sort fact from fiction in the Taranto case, but also illuminate what good and bad ball usage looks like across the league.

Taranto tallies

With ageing stars in their midfield, Richmond effectively handed the keys to its engine room to Taranto and fellow former Giant Jacob Hopper for the foreseeable future.

On top of a handsome contract, it also meant a permanent midfield role for Taranto, who had previously played a hybrid mid-forward role at the Giants. The shift has resulted in a raft of career-highs.

Thus far in 2023, he’s on pace to record his best average numbers for disposals, contested possessions, clearances, score involvements and tackles.

Across the AFL, he’s ranked sixth for disposals and fifth for tackles; as such, Champion Data rates him elite in these categories. In that respect, he’s doing exactly what the Tigers required, replacing their grunt in the middle as Trent Cotchin and Dustin Martin phase into other roles.



But there’s another statistic that is the root cause of this debate: a kicking efficiency of just 46.2 per cent. The more you get the ball, the more that can be highlighted.

Untidy Tim

To put it bluntly, Taranto’s kicking is dragging down the rest of his game.

The AFL Player Ratings system tries to provide some sort of equality across positions beyond raw disposals. Taranto playing in the midfield will always get the ball more often than Dylan Grimes playing a lockdown defensive role, so the ratings reflect the opportunities and expectations of each position.

Disposals are all well and good but bad ball use, the sort that can cause turnovers and opposition goals and contribute to losses, is marked harshly.

So, despite his elite ball-winning numbers, Taranto’s ratings points of 10.9 rank him just 50th of the 73 pure midfielders in the AFL. Diving deeper, his ratings measures across most categories are quite good compared to his peers, yet his ball use is ranked 68th.

Kick rating measures the expected outcome based on the difficulty of kicks. Taranto’s rating of -10 per cent is the second-worst of all players in the AFL to have had 100 qualified kicks.



The Beauty of Bont

So what does the best look like? Look no further than second-favourite for the Brownlow Medal, Marcus Bontempelli.

Bontempelli has the highest impact per kick or handball for a midfielder across the AFL, notching 0.80 ratings points per disposal. By comparison, Taranto is going at 0.36, with only Andrew Gaff and Ollie Wines ranking lower among mids.



This strikes to the heart of the debate about disposals, often used as the default stat to determine who played well in a game.

Bontempelli sits 31st in the league for getting the ball but would universally be regarded as one of the best two players in the game this season alongside Nick Daicos, who sits first in the league for disposals.

Taranto sits sixth on the disposals table, yet the ratings points per disposal are what triggered Cornes’ infamous declaration that he wouldn’t be the 150th best player in the game.

Quandary around quality

Richmond’s defeat of West Coast last week is in some ways a microcosm of Taranto’s season.

On the surface, his 32 disposals, 20 contested possessions, 10 clearances and two goals would appear to be the perfect answer to any critics. To most fans, he would have appeared the talisman of a badly-needed win.

But that pesky kicking efficiency? It was at a season low 36 per cent.

Taranto gained 13.0 rating points from his ball-winning but lost 4.1 rating points from his ball use.

His end-of-game ratings points were 10.3, compared to Dion Prestia’s 23-disposal, three-goal game that achieved a 24 point rating, chiefly due to his overall efficiency with the ball.

The Coach or the Data?

This is where the crux of the Cornes v Damien Hardwick debate comes into focus.

Taranto’s rating of 10.3 last week ranked him 12th for the Tigers, supporting Cornes’ assertion; which was not particularly provocative when you really think about it.

Cornes was saying that Taranto sits outside the top 20 per cent of AFL senior and rookie-listed players, bringing into question the seven-year investment the Tigers have made. The ladder and Champion Data figures would seem to buttress that.

On the other hand, Hardwick and Eagles coach Adam Simpson combined to give Taranto seven votes as the second-best player on the ground for the AFL Coaches Association Champion Player of the Year Award.

In their eyes, he was the Richmond player winning the ball when it mattered and physically imposing himself on the contest.

To bastardise a phrase, Hardwick and the Taranto defenders are saying, ‘’Tis better to have had the ball and lost it (sometimes), than never to have had the ball at all’.

Both views are justifiable.

https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/champion-data-stats-for-richmonds-tim-taranto-reveal-kane-cornes-had-a-point-with-controversial-criticism/news-story/b2228ec55ce5190a2c834befbbffbf05

Offline Hard Roar Tiger

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Re: Tim Taranto officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #269 on: May 11, 2023, 01:06:51 PM »
I read this article and my question is why they don’t write it about Dangerfield who consistently goes at mid 60’s and I’ve lost count of the amount of times he bursts from a centre clearances and blasts the ball out of bounce in the forward pocket - sometimes on the full.

He is revered for this?
“I find it nearly impossible to make those judgments, but he is certainly up there with the really important ones, he is certainly up there with the Francis Bourkes and the Royce Harts and the Kevin Bartlett and the Kevin Sheedys, there is no doubt about that,” Balme said.