Tiger critics off mark - Wallace

[Tigertailz]

Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.

[Tiger Spirit]

The game has changed at AFL level. Gone from a long kicking game to a short passing one due to the advancement in fitness, mass bench rotations and defensive tactics and techniques.  You'll find the number of effective kicks on average competition wide in the AFL has fallen in the past 10 years due to this. Soccer went through the same thing and it took an emphasis on elite skills to counter it. It's more risk analysis in some ways than sport if you know what I mean.

I know what you mean MT, and the reasons why it’s changed.  But I thought it was sport, and that it’s supposed to thrill and inspire people, not put them to sleep.  But anyway.

Players need to understand why they need to play this "modern" strategic style. It needs to be intuitive too within the team rules. Watch the game and weigh up the player with the footy's options and where they should go:

That’s all well and good, but what if they don’t, what then?  And maybe this is where we’re at.  So, who’s at fault?  The players because they can’t or won’t play the style TW wants them to play, or TW because he wants them to play a style they’re never likely to get?  Not under pressure, anyway.  The options are that TW cuts his losses with certain players, he gets them to play a style that suits them, or he cops the scrutiny.  It’s his call.  Is that too simplistic?

That's the game now. It's strategy as much as footy. Players need to think their way through the game. They need to be able to read it 2-3 plays ahead. Many of our players either don't or can't understand the strategy behind what they are doing. Either way they appear confused and get themselves into trouble.

For whatever reason, maybe part of the problem is that they don’t work together enough to work through tough situations.  And individuals are often left to do it on their own.  I thought that’s what being in a team was all about, you know working together.  Not sure if we’ve fully grasped that concept just yet.  Occasionally we see a good passage of team play, but it doesn’t happen often enough.  Maybe a lot of it has to do with having a core group of players together for a number of seasons, rather than the chop and change situation we have.

Agree TS but I was more talking about during a game when the players need to make the correct decisions as well as execute them. As much as the coach can instruct and demand, it's the player with the footy who has the final say in this situation. A player especially a senior player should be aware of poor percentage options. Kicking blindly and lazily up in the air to a Bulldog inside our forward 50 is one of them  .

Not that you’re bitter about it, or anything MT.

You play the way you train.  If a player repeatedly offends, whether it’s in a game or at training then it’s no longer his fault, if he’s continually allowed to get away with these things.  It just seems like we make it impossible to ever improve.  There are no consequences so nothing ever changes.

[Tiger Spirit]

Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.

Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.

Sounds good to me Tigertailz.

The good thing about Pratt is that he seems to have an understanding of the footy culture and also has a great affinity for his Club.

Best of all, he doesn't waste much time telling everyone what he's going to do, he just does it.

Wonder if there's a Richmond supporting equivalent out there.

[mightytiges]

That’s all well and good, but what if they don’t, what then?  And maybe this is where we’re at.  So, who’s at fault?  The players because they can’t or won’t play the style TW wants them to play, or TW because he wants them to play a style they’re never likely to get?  Not under pressure, anyway.  The options are that TW cuts his losses with certain players, he gets them to play a style that suits them, or he cops the scrutiny.  It’s his call.  Is that too simplistic?

Pretty much spot on TS I would've thought. Plough's predecessors in the past 10 years failed to evolve and they and of course the team failed. This year is make or break for Wallace. I don't mean it'll get to the stage where his job will be at risk but the decisions he makes during and especially at the end of the season will go a long way to determining whether he'll succeed or fail.

For whatever reason, maybe part of the problem is that they don’t work together enough to work through tough situations.  And individuals are often left to do it on their own.  I thought that’s what being in a team was all about, you know working together.  Not sure if we’ve fully grasped that concept just yet.  Occasionally we see a good passage of team play, but it doesn’t happen often enough.  Maybe a lot of it has to do with having a core group of players together for a number of seasons, rather than the chop and change situation we have.

I think you're right TS. Since 1980 we have only really brought through a group of youngsters together twice. The first time started by KB in 1988 and nutured by Northey which gave us the Knights, Cambo, Richo, etc generation and now the 2004+ group we have now. Compare that to say Sheedy who has regenerated the Bombers at least 6 times in his 26 years in charge. That's roughly once every 4-5 years.

Not that you’re bitter about it, or anything MT.

You play the way you train.  If a player repeatedly offends, whether it’s in a game or at training then it’s no longer his fault, if he’s continually allowed to get away with these things.  It just seems like we make it impossible to ever improve.  There are no consequences so nothing ever changes.

Not bitter TS but just frustrated that some of our senior players don't seem to have pride in their own performance nor follow obvious elements of the gameplan as WP alluded to in another thread. Then again maybe that is their best and it's simply a fact that their best isn't good enough to take us to the level we all want the team to reach  .

[Tigermonk]

but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing

Coughlan can't kick, Knobel is a dud, Hall is a dud and Hartigan has bad skills.

We're not good enough and that's a fact. Would you want us to be 3-1 or 2-2, wall-papering over the cracks, or 0-4 and we're finally realising that it's not the young guys who aren't good enough, it's the senior players and their bad skills that are hurting us.

This years theme is 'Generation Next - The Tiger Movement' so lets get the kids in.

P. Bowden kicks 5, J. Riewoldt kicks 5. They bring in P. Bowden and he does nothing, they could have brought in J. Riewoldt and he might have done nothing, but he is the future, he has plenty of enthusiasm and would be getting experience.

"Coughlan can't kick"  surely a Tiger supporter wouldn't say that l'm just gunna ignore that statement that is purely not worth answering

[Moi]

l think some of you dont understand the term REBUILDING a club & its playing list

there is still alot of work to be done you just cant become a coach & put together a new coaching staff & fix things in a few years
It needs to be done over a long period thats why Richmond has given TW a 5 year contract cause with his plans & what the board had talked about it would be at least that to get the club back on track & to gell together a good playing list
remember TW came to the club when it was broke on its knees & the list was not good & moral from Frawley & humilating defeats was not good
Until the club starts stringing wins together & become a hard & unpredictable team to beat in the mold of ?? Western Bulldogs Sydney, West Coast, Adelaide, St-Kilda then none here will be satified & those who think they know best will be critic's of the coach & players

Its time some of you forum trolls started supporting our cause & stop destroying it as its being built up you will only damage the young players with your wraith

 

 

Worth bumping 

[Moi]

??? & where is Carlton they lose 1 player & they crash back to earth & Fevola loses his head

but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing

so you must think really bad of teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Demons, & others who have flogged us & not got any silverware in all them years l dont hear there supporters screaming like some tigers supporters

Another worth bumping - voice of reason 

[Bulluss]

Well Wallet shouldnt have come out and said that we will finish 9th again.

It is the worst thing he has said and what has gotten a lot of people off side.

There is no doubt that the rebuilding process will take atleast 5 years. I dont even expect us to be in contention for a flag in his 5th year. Finals hopefully but no flag.

Sure Wallet may have been mis-quoted but his comments were not thought through and all he was doing was trying to be a show off once again.

One thing we must start doing is drafting the best player available at each selection.

There have been TOO many speculative choices.

[Tigertailz]

Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.

Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.

Sounds good to me Tigertailz.

The good thing about Pratt is that he seems to have an understanding of the footy culture and also has a great affinity for his Club.

Best of all, he doesn't waste much time telling everyone what he's going to do, he just does it.

Wonder if there's a Richmond supporting equivalent out there.

Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers!

[mightytiges]

Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.

Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.

Sounds good to me Tigertailz.

The good thing about Pratt is that he seems to have an understanding of the footy culture and also has a great affinity for his Club.

Best of all, he doesn't waste much time telling everyone what he's going to do, he just does it.

Wonder if there's a Richmond supporting equivalent out there.

Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers!

Not Crazy John? 

[one-eyed]

Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers!

Famous Fans 

Waleed Aly - Lawyer and Social Commentator
Dallas Brooks - Former Governor of Victoria
Russell Crowe - Academy Award-winning Actor
Denise Drysdale - Television Personality and Comedian
Ted Egan - Folk Musician and Administrator of the Northern Territory
Derek Guille - Radio Presenter
Rex Hunt - Television and Radio Personality
John Ilhan - Mobile Phone Entrepreneur
Simon Katich - Test Cricketer
Stephen Mayne - Journalist and Shareholder Activist
Anthony Mithen - Sports Journalist and Radio Presenter
Mick Molloy - Comedian, Writer, Producer and Actor
Livinia Nixon - Television Presenter
George Pell - Catholic Archbishop of Sydney
Steve Price - Radio Presenter
Paul Reiffel - Cricket Umpire and former Test Cricketer
Tony Schibeci - Radio Presenter
Caroline Wilson - Sports Journalist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Football_Club#Famous_Fans

[letsgetiton!]

Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers!

Famous Fans 

Waleed Aly - Lawyer and Social Commentator
Dallas Brooks - Former Governor of Victoria
Russell Crowe - Academy Award-winning Actor
Denise Drysdale - Television Personality and Comedian
Ted Egan - Folk Musician and Administrator of the Northern Territory
Derek Guille - Radio Presenter
Rex Hunt - Television and Radio Personality
John Ilhan - Mobile Phone Entrepreneur
Simon Katich - Test Cricketer
Stephen Mayne - Journalist and Shareholder Activist
Anthony Mithen - Sports Journalist and Radio Presenter
Mick Molloy - Comedian, Writer, Producer and Actor
Livinia Nixon - Television Presenter
George Pell - Catholic Archbishop of Sydney
Steve Price - Radio Presenter
Paul Reiffel - Cricket Umpire and former Test Cricketer
Tony Schibeci - Radio Presenter
Caroline Wilson - Sports Journalist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Football_Club#Famous_Fans

Livinia Nixon - Television Presenter

oh yeah! 

[Life goes on]

??? & where is Carlton they lose 1 player & they crash back to earth & Fevola loses his head

but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing

so you must think really bad of teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Demons, & others who have flogged us & not got any silverware in all them years l dont hear there supporters screaming like some tigers supporters

Another worth bumping - voice of reason 

Knobel, Hall and Hartigan arent in or best 22 and would struggle to get a game anywhere.

[Moi]

??? & where is Carlton they lose 1 player & they crash back to earth & Fevola loses his head

but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing

so you must think really bad of teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Demons, & others who have flogged us & not got any silverware in all them years l dont hear there supporters screaming like some tigers supporters

Another worth bumping - voice of reason 

Knobel, Hall and Hartigan arent in or best 22 and would struggle to get a game anywhere.

That's right, Jack.  Terry has a lot of rebuilding to do. Plus the fact that even if they aren't good enough to play AFL, there was still no-one to replace them.  Because Jack dearest, we are rebuilding. 

[WilliamPowell]

Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers!

Gee Tigertailz I've gotta say I hope this isn't true (although Caro did make reference to it on Monday night) the off field side of the  club is fine e.g the finances etc so IMHO there is no need for a change at this level. It isn't the answer. The problems we have right now are on field and I doubt very much that an off field revolution is going to fix it. March and the board + Steve Wright are not the ones out there kicking the footy and not following the game plan - that's the players.

The Richard Pratt/Carlton situation is completely different to the RFC. Pratt was bought in the fix the off filed stuff and yep he is doing it and granted it is clearly having an effect on the playing group.